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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Mopman43 said:
According to 8th edition Ogre Kingdoms, the Dwarfs only started to consider expeditions to the Mountains of Mourn after a series of Ogre raids in -1955 IC. Given the other events that were soon going on, I'd be surprised if the managed to get a Waystone outcrop set up.

(Along with potential issues streaming magic that far, especially given that the Chaos Dwarfs figuring things out would be giving some lucky Sorcerer-Prophet quite a bit of energy)


There's also Karak Zorn, but there probably isn't one down there.
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I knew of that, but I also know that Quest canon takes precedence, and this is what Snorri says:
Boney said:
"Oh?" you ask neutrally. You've actually heard of this, or at least the end of them - the waterfall supplying drinking water is what makes Qrech's Seventh-and-Final-Combe such an ideal position for Clan Moulder's forward base. But that's not something to mention too freely.

"The greatest accomplishment of Karak Vlag's Rangers. For millennia the east was considered lost to us because you can't follow the mountains without hitting Uzkulak, and you can't cross the Dark Lands without encountering traitor patrols. But this was the Golden Age and we never gave up back then. Karak Vlag's Rangers eventually managed to chart a path through the Zorn Uzkul from lake to lake and reached the Mountains of Mourn without the traitors ever catching on. The mountains were rich and had never seen a pick, and Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn and Karak Krakaten rivalled the riches of the Old Holds for a time. The range seemed wide enough that we could expand into it for a thousand generations and still have room aplenty. But then the Golden Age came to an end."

"The War of Vengeance?" you prompt.

"That certainly didn't help, but more relevantly in the east, Ogres arrived after having eaten their way through the Giant Lands. The holds of the east held out for a long, long time before falling, but the only contact that was possible with them was by dashing across the Dark Lands, not winding their way through mountains now filled with Ogre tribes to reach Zorn Uzkul. That was the end of Karak Vlag's geopolitical prominence. Even the Silver Age largely passed it by, since there were Norscans and Kurgan between them and the Empire. It wasn't until the founding of Kislev that it began to recover."
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Apparently, the Mountains of Mourne holds were established in the Golden Age.
 
It seemed really weird to me that a Dwarven Empire actively at war with the Elves and presumably quite occupied with that would respond to Ogres coming across the Badlands by sending settlers in the same direction the Ogres came from, so I knocked the colonization a bit further back in the timeline.
 
Boney said:
It seemed really weird to me that a Dwarven Empire actively at war with the Elves and presumably quite occupied with that would respond to Ogres coming across the Badlands by sending settlers in the same direction the Ogres came from, so I knocked the colonization a bit further back in the timeline.
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A lot of Army Book writers seem to view the lore that they're working with on an individual basis rather than a wholistic one. It doesn't help that different writers are in charge of different army books. It tends to result in less cohesion between the disparate pieces of lore.

It also doesn't help that the Ogre Kingdoms only had a 6th and 8th Edition Army Book, and the 6th Edition Army Book did not have a timeline. 8th Edition Ogre Kingdoms had to make a timeline from scratch, which probably explains some oddities.
 
Codex said:
A lot of Army Book writers seem to view the lore that they're working with on an individual basis rather than a wholistic one.
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I think my favorite example for that is that Settra conquered all the way up to the Black Mountains and apparently never interacted with Dwarfs once. When it was right in the middle of the Golden Age.
 
Boney said:
It seemed really weird to me that a Dwarven Empire actively at war with the Elves and presumably quite occupied with that would respond to Ogres coming across the Badlands by sending settlers in the same direction the Ogres came from, so I knocked the colonization a bit further back in the timeline.
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I don't know, that level of stubbornness seems very dwarf to me

Dwarf one: years of planning done, all packed up, let's head out!

Dwarf two: what about the war?

Dwarf one: did I stutter?
 
Mopman43 said:
I think my favorite example for that is that Settra conquered all the way up to the Black Mountains and apparently never interacted with Dwarfs once. When it was right in the middle of the Golden Age.
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I know that Karitamen definitely interacted with Dwarves at least. He had Dwarf undead slaves imprisoned in his Tomb and he has Gromril Armor that is most likely crafted by them.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
how are we supposed to play us bringing in people we're articles-bound to send to the colleges to them?
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We have explicit instruction for how we are supposed to 'play' it:
Boney said:
"By which the Magister Patriarch means that collaboration with them may be of use as a pretence for ascertaining their suitability to join one of the Orders of Magic, as required by Article 13," Kurtis says. "Otherwise collaboration with the Hedgewise would make you a party to a breach of Article 3."
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Also while we are on the subject. Remember back when we gave the anti-Waaagh lecture? This was one of the guests:
Boney said:
One of the Hedgewise, under a grey robe and a fair few cloaking spells, almost certainly here under a false name. If they're not also here by invitation and under the protection of the Grey College, they're likely to be on a pyre or in a shallow grave by sunrise tomorrow.
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Neither the Grey College in general nor Mathilde in particular have any difficulty working with the Hedgewise. Particularly on things pertaining to dealing with threats to the Empire.
 
BrewCrew said:
It was from talking to Qrech here:
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Codex said:
Are you referring to Qrech's "Three is Peace" lecture?
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Yes, this is it. Thank you. I don't know much proper lore, and this is one of the few things that talks about Skaven society and their mindset.

Without going over old ground, as I can't imagine people haven't already walked through things themselves ages ago, Thirteen just looks like the worst. At least from a human perspective. It's where they're the most divided, where there's the most chaos. Where there is the most potential ways that things can shift and rebound. The more I go through that, the more I feel like the Skaven are just a pretty clearly Tzeentch plot. Sort of like the Alpha Legion in 40k.

Which just makes me want to roll Hashut into Khorne perhaps. Though maybe not. I don't think Khorne really has a thing for 'Domination', and Hashut gives Dwarves magic. So even if there isn't lore of Hashut (right?) that separates them from the Four, it's not so clear cut.

It's interesting stuff to think about. Like, I know that there's already theories that the Skaven are a Tzeentch plot based on their origins, but still. The Horned Rat definitely became a Thing, but Tzeentch just does what they do. So that doesn't remove the possibility.

Anyway, this is really just me musing upon things. To be totally honest, I'd rather not spark a debate. As I really don't know enough about this stuff to feel confident about anything.
 
The Hedgewise are not summoning demons, they are not performing blood sacrifices, and they are not declaring war on the empire. That puts them well at the bottom of the "things to be worried about" list.


Vokivas said:
Yes, this is it. Thank you. I don't know much proper lore, and this is one of the few things that talks about Skaven society and their mindset.

Without going over old ground, as I can't imagine people haven't already walked through things themselves ages ago, Thirteen just looks like the worst. At least from a human perspective. It's where they're the most divided, where there's the most chaos. Where there is the most potential ways that things can shift and rebound. The more I go through that, the more I feel like the Skaven are just a pretty clearly Tzeentch plot. Sort of like the Alpha Legion in 40k.

Which just makes me want to roll Hashut into Khorne perhaps. Though maybe not. I don't think Khorne really has a thing for 'Domination', and Hashut gives Dwarves magic. So even if there isn't lore of Hashut (right?) that separates them from the Four, it's not so clear cut.

It's interesting stuff to think about. Like, I know that there's already theories that the Skaven are a Tzeentch plot based on their origins, but still. The Horned Rat definitely became a Thing, but Tzeentch just does what they do. So that doesn't remove the possibility.

Anyway, this is really just me musing upon things. To be totally honest, I'd rather not spark a debate. As I really don't know enough about this stuff to feel confident about anything.
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The Horned Rat tells the Skaven that 13 is best because it keeps them divided—it's 6 and 6 and 1, with the Horned Rat being the one, who can then play each side against each other however he pleases. 13 is best for Him and Him alone—that's why none of the Skaven can agree why 13 is best, it's just something they "know".
 
[x] Tsarevich Boris Bokha
You've met him before, and he seems to have made it his business to solve problems that his more straightforward father can't or won't. Seek him out once more and see if he's interested in solving a source of unrest and disruption in the Southern Oblast.

[x] Vicereine Cadaeth
 
You know, there is a question about involving the elf's. that can be seen as a positive or a negative.

In that, by inviting them, we have to show them some of what we are doing to get people on broad the Waystone train.

There is power in being able to show them 'see this shit? This is the shit I have to do to get your thing off the ground.'

But there is also power in hidding weak points, in just being that Grey wizard that can just pull resources and man power out of thin air.

And the illusion is broken when people have a look behind the curtain.

It could be taken both ways. But elf politics seem to be on the side of 'don't let them see you sweat.'

But then I think 'more sexy elf scenes.' And know that I am weak.

[x] The Ostermark Hedgewise
[x] Vicereine Cadaeth
 
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