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Hmm, I kinda want to break up the Devils, but I also feel that Coalition Talks is an absolute necessity. I guess I don't care about what we end up doing with the Devils that much.

[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training
 
changed vote
[X] [Devils] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training

[x] Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
 
So I like the plan I voted for, but I still think we may need a more militant option set up to make sure the Mississippi stays clear, especially if Russia tries to blockade it.
 
@fasquardon
Reply hopefully tomorrow. Sorry about the delay.

No worries, I've not been able to be online for a while.

Fair assessment. I personally get great enjoyment from the limited information decisions in the quest (and from trying to get more information).

For sure. And trying to interpret limited information well is a big part of the fun of the quest. I am just saying that given the information we have, I can see why people would have a reasonable interpretation that differs from my own interpretation (which I also think is reasonable).

fasquardon
 
Okay...I'm bringing some fun idea onto this.

I hope I won't get yelled at for it.


(Auth Right to Lib Right in Action) (Personal beliefs are up to interpretation)
-Is anywhere between 17-50, looks old regardless of Age.
-Remembers hearing stories of the Good old Days, when the only thing the US had to worry about was what mess in the Middle East they were pulling out of.
-Has strong hands and Steady Aim from spending the last decade killing Bandits and Vics.
-Somehow considered the Ultimate Badass on the Continent. Just wants to go home and work a good Job.
-Will immediately train the next generation of Post Office Workers and Police.
-Is somehow going to retire with Lakefront Property.
-Picks up Dates in a Tank.
-Despite Bad Habits will live to 85 with a large family.
-"Is the stove still on? I hope not."


(Centrist in Practice, but personal beliefs could be anything)
-Is in their Mid-50s and has a family. (Are they Gay or Straight, does not matter the Family is Family)
-Inherited his Dad's BDU and Mom's Helmet. Misses them every day.
-Depressed from living under the fear of Victoria, still got up in the morning and killed them all the same.
-When they are sad they remember their wild Teenage years of fighting the Nazis in the Midwest...The highlight of their life so far.
-Is drinking buddies with the guys in Blues Brigade is married to one of their siblings.
-Has Blackmail of the Pizza Party incident of 2054.
- "Ahh, I hope we can make a Sabaton song about the Iron Brigade."

Image source is Here: Wojak Paradise

I hope they are a fun idea.

Edit: Its gonna be a one off anyway.
 
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[X][DEVILS] Retain the Devil Brigade as an expeditionary warfare unit forming the basis of the CFC's special operations forces contingent.
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training
 
[X][DEVILS] Retain the Devil Brigade as an expeditionary warfare unit forming the basis of the CFC's special operations forces contingent.
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training
 
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
 
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1

[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.


also I'm new to this quest like I found out about this quest 3 days ago new and I have a few questions

1. WTF is Victoria's excuse for a combat strategy since I read from the tvtropes page it likes decentralization while doing human wave tactics

2 How exactly are the CMC "elite" since most of my quest experience is from embers in the dusk so my idea of an elite unit of fanatics would be something similar to the Black Irons of the embers in the dusk quest ie highly trained and equpped troops who using won't break or run even in the face of impossible odds not bunch of fanatics with only better weapon quality and will break formation or revolt at only the slightest grievence
 
2 How exactly are the CMC "elite" since most of my quest experience is from embers in the dusk so my idea of an elite unit of fanatics would be something similar to the Black Irons of the embers in the dusk quest ie highly trained and equpped troops who using won't break or run even in the face of impossible odds not bunch of fanatics with only better weapon quality and will break formation or revolt at only the slightest grievence
As far as I understand it, the CMC units are elite in the same way as most of the Waffen SS units, they are politically reliable and fanatically loyal to the state and the prevailing ideology.
For this, like other regime protection units, they were both specially equipped and otherwise provided with privileges.
 
As far as I understand it, the CMC units are elite in the same way as most of the Waffen SS units, they are politically reliable and fanatically loyal to the state and the prevailing ideology.
For this, like other regime protection units, they were both specially equipped and otherwise provided with privileges.
I wouldn't call a group that rebels at even the slightest hint of losing their privileges and is essentially a giant spoiled child an elite group. They seem more akin to Direwnger's brigade ie they do alot of atrocities but when they auctually have to fight an auctual enemy they take horrific losses
 
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
 
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1

[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.


also I'm new to this quest like I found out about this quest 3 days ago new and I have a few questions

1. WTF is Victoria's excuse for a combat strategy since I read from the tvtropes page it likes decentralization while doing human wave tactics

2 How exactly are the CMC "elite" since most of my quest experience is from embers in the dusk so my idea of an elite unit of fanatics would be something similar to the Black Irons of the embers in the dusk quest ie highly trained and equpped troops who using won't break or run even in the face of impossible odds not bunch of fanatics with only better weapon quality and will break formation or revolt at only the slightest grievence

1) Lind's 4th generation warfare is based on being deliberately low tech and focuses on decentralized infantry prioritising initiative. Vehicles are also underutilized with a focus on avoiding tank on tank combat, in favor of trying to use your tanks to hit soft targets and mission killing enemies tanks. Aircraft like bombers and attack copters are discarded with an air force focused solely on countering enemy aircraft. Logistics is also ignored in favor of foraging and raiding and assuming that any conflict will be won swiftly and decisively. There's also an embracing of cruelty and amorality, employing tactics such as human shields, humiliating and/or trafficking captured soldiers, as well as a general willingness to engage in war crimes

2) The CMC are 3/5 compared to the standard infantry 2/5 and have the best equipment, plus they're the most ideologically devoted.

Keep in mind 4th generation warfare was based on William S. Lind's experience during the Vietnam war, or more specifically, his lack there of. Lind has never served in any branch of the armed forces, so keep in mind whenever he pontificates about how only men are suited for warfare.
 
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. WTF is Victoria's excuse for a combat strategy since I read from the tvtropes page it likes decentralization while doing human wave tactics
After and/or during the Vietnam War Lind, the author of the original book, correctly identified the USA had a problem effectively combating a well-motivated, decentralized insurgency like the Vietcong.

The solution he happened upon was to remodel the US military as a decentralized insurgency.

Unfortunately, Lind had no understanding of how insurgencies actually function. Or even what they do well.

So, he made up some bullshit based on his own luddite beliefs wrapped up in Nazi Army apologia and machismo.

*edit*
In short, tech is inherently fragile and error prone. War is won by infantry. Morale is the most important part of war. Logistics are expensive and overcomplicate things.
 
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1. WTF is Victoria's excuse for a combat strategy since I read from the tvtropes page it likes decentralization while doing human wave tactics
It's based on the tactics and strategy drawn from the original book, Victoria, by Lind.

Unfortunately, Lind is kind of a moron when it comes to military strategy, because his entire career as a guy yelling at the military and unsuccessfully telling them what to do is based on him having looked at the Vietnam War, drawn the wrong lessons, and... Well, he seems to have concluded that the only real way to win is by throwing aside all the heavy weapons, armor, and air support which are for liberal pussies. And to be willing to do anything and live off the land (read: loot the shit out of things) as RUGGED MANLY LIGHT INFANTRY, you know, like the heavily exoticized version of the Viet Cong that exist only in his imagination.

Lind then used the book to systematically target all the stuff about the real world military he hated, including the part where it has professional staff and logistics corps.

So yeah, conventional Vick tactics are pretty shit.

Blackwell is gonna have to fix things up.

2 How exactly are the CMC "elite" since most of my quest experience is from embers in the dusk so my idea of an elite unit of fanatics would be something similar to the Black Irons of the embers in the dusk quest ie highly trained and equpped troops who using won't break or run even in the face of impossible odds not bunch of fanatics with only better weapon quality and will break formation or revolt at only the slightest grievence
The Crusaders' division of the CMC are better equipped as noted, and they really don't break. The only time in recent history that a CMC Crusader division ran into a heavier, better armed force was during the Battle of the Raisin River in the Detroit campaign, and while our side's 'Devil Brigade' slaughtered that CMC unit to a man, not one of them ran away.

They revolt here, but frankly that was after they were betrayed and targeted by their own allies. They're terrible people, but they're not actually wrong that Blackwell and the new Vick government are their enemies who will destroy them if given a chance... Not least because the Crusaders are fanatical enough about keeping to the old Vick military doctrine or their own variation on it that it would be impossible for Blackwell to adequately reform the military as long as they remain powerful, and the destruction of the main Vick army at our hands makes the Crusaders too powerful to tolerate.
 
]
It's based on the tactics and strategy drawn from the original book, Victoria, by Lind.

Unfortunately, Lind is kind of a moron when it comes to military strategy, because his entire career as a guy yelling at the military and unsuccessfully telling them what to do is based on him having looked at the Vietnam War, drawn the wrong lessons, and... Well, he seems to have concluded that the only real way to win is by throwing aside all the heavy weapons, armor, and air support which are for liberal pussies. And to be willing to do anything and live off the land (read: loot the shit out of things) as RUGGED MANLY LIGHT INFANTRY, you know, like the heavily exoticized version of the Viet Cong that exist only in his imagination.

Lind then used the book to systematically target all the stuff about the real world military he hated, including the part where it has professional staff and logistics corps.

So yeah, conventional Vick tactics are pretty shit.

Blackwell is gonna have to fix things up.

The Crusaders' division of the CMC are better equipped as noted, and they really don't break. The only time in recent history that a CMC Crusader division ran into a heavier, better armed force was during the Battle of the Raisin River in the Detroit campaign, and while our side's 'Devil Brigade' slaughtered that CMC unit to a man, not one of them ran away.

They revolt here, but frankly that was after they were betrayed and targeted by their own allies. They're terrible people, but they're not actually wrong that Blackwell and the new Vick government are their enemies who will destroy them if given a chance... Not least because the Crusaders are fanatical enough about keeping to the old Vick military doctrine or their own variation on it that it would be impossible for Blackwell to adequately reform the military as long as they remain powerful, and the destruction of the main Vick army at our hands makes the Crusaders too powerful to tolerate.
Afterr reading that my brain decided to have an idea .... and I obliged it. How can I make that combat doctrine less shitty. Even using ten seconds of serious thought I figured out the three main parts of the doctrine mass attacks,foraging and personal initiative. Now in order to mak nything resembling a combat doctrine you have to get rid of at least 1. Now the doctrines I selected come from fiction and not real life so lets dive in.

Doctrine one: RK ostafika from the hearts of iron 4 mod TNO the last days of Europe- this doctrine from the largest nightmare fuel on the african continent ostafrika go's all in on personal initiative and foraging at the cost of actually having a large manpower pool. For you see in TNO th nazis control most of central Africa and the one in charge of ostafrika Hans Huttig basically treats it like a giant concentration camp. Pros(for Victoria)- never worry about losing fanaticism or hope again as all your troops are either trained fanatics who fight using guerrilla warfare or conscripted natives who won't defect put of fear of you killing their hometown and everything in a 30 mile range if even one of them defects. dealing with too many enemies well the there's a solution for that-poison gas.Cons(Pro's for us)- good news for anyone not Victoria there are a few issues with this doctrine. First if Victoria uses anything like that doctrine this basically has to say goodbye to anything resembling numerical supieriority since by ostafrika standards only the CMC would actually make the cut. Secondly say goodbye to anyone who isn't white protestants who think that fascism is a good idea actually collaborating with Victoria in any way in addition it'll basically be impossible for Victoria to secure any type of foreign aid due to them doing a large amount of war crimes including but not limited to child soldiers,massacres,using slave labor on insane scales and using large amounts of poison gas on both civilian and military targets.



Doctrine two Caesar's legion from the hoi4 mod old world blues- unlike the legion we know and hate from fallout new vegas this version is whole different beast in terms of both combat doctrine and political doctrine in comparison to both Victoria and new vegas legion by basically acting actual Romans. Pros- unlike doctrine one Victoria doesn't have to have such a small fighting force in fact it'll be pretty similar to Victoria's original doctrine and in addition the legion's armed forces are always ready to adapt to any situation but are also capable of a subtle touch as well thanks to legion frumementarii who can hand the legion bloodless victories on a platter in addition the legion is a master of terror tactics and can forage of the land with ease.Cons- HAHA no just no. The legion is way too divergent ideologically for Victoria to copy it without going through a massive change. First off the legion likes discipline and logistics you don't get initiative until you get to around high command in addition while the legion can raid for supplies they will only do if they can't use their supply camps where they have dedicated workers to repair their weapons or they want to send a message in addition the legion is perfectly willing to accept new ideas and ways of doing things. While you might think they might agree with Victoria on retroculture they actually diverge a lot. While Victoria hates modern tech because it isn't rustic the legion dislikes pre war tech because technology became humankind's maser instead of the other way around that doesn't mean the legion hates all tech their perfectly willing to use advances weapons and don't really see anything wrong with stuff like advanced engineering and combustion engines they just draw a line at stuff like power armor and robots.


Doctrine three: Enclave reformist hoi4 old world blues: This faction of the enclave decided not to commit mass genocide on the wasteland and instead restore it to the pre war america they heard about in stories.Ironically enough they've been fed with so much propaganda that heir idea of a reborn america is way different than the old one complete with free and fair elections plus actual freedom of the press.Pros- an army filled with regular infantry with plenty of personal intiative. Cons-HAHA no its even more counter to Victoria since it uses both logistics and advanced tech and it uses the air force heavily.
 
Honestly massed attacks are more of an unintended consequence of Victorian doctrine than an actual part of it.

Victorian doctrine says (A) the man on the ground knows how best to direct himself, (B) movement and aggression are key, (C) being super macho and cool is how you win wars, and (D) your enemies are inherently feeble-minded, effeminate cowards.


So, as a Victorian soldier when you see somebody charging a defensive line here's the line of thought.
1. He knows something I don't.
2. If I don't help, I am wasting the opportunity he's either found or will create.
3. If I don't join in, I'm going to be accused of being a disloyal coward.
4. The enemy has to break soon anyway.
 
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1

[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.


also I'm new to this quest like I found out about this quest 3 days ago new and I have a few questions

1. WTF is Victoria's excuse for a combat strategy since I read from the tvtropes page it likes decentralization while doing human wave tactics

2 How exactly are the CMC "elite" since most of my quest experience is from embers in the dusk so my idea of an elite unit of fanatics would be something similar to the Black Irons of the embers in the dusk quest ie highly trained and equpped troops who using won't break or run even in the face of impossible odds not bunch of fanatics with only better weapon quality and will break formation or revolt at only the slightest grievence
In addition to the things others have said: the Crusaders are elite in the sense that they are both better trained and better equipped, suited to taking on missions beyond the capabilities of regular Army units. To reinforce what Simon said, they are also profoundly fanatic, the result of scraping all of New England and Atlantic Canada to find just 30,000 combat troops of literally the maximal possible levels of aggression and fanatic devotion to the state's chosen ideology. So much so that, if ordered to forge a river held by enemy armor, they will continue to do so, even if gravely outmatched, even in the face of zero progress, even as the enemy starts blowing up their vehicles before they even start to cross, even as every single one of them dies violently within the line of sight of all of the others.

And if they are surrounded by supposedly friendly militia units that then attempt to murder them all under the direction of their nominal brother organization of secret police, they will them quite merrily burn whatever swathes of their country they must in order to purge the unclean.

They are elite, yes. But elite does not mean that they are politically reliable when blatantly betrayed and marked for death.

And welcome aboard!
 
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[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
 
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
 
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

We need as many advantages as possible, better training is huge.
 
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