Usagi Quest (CK3/Princess Maker) (Sailor Moon)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Now, I know Ternasta isn't going to be replying to this immediately, but it's a reasonable accusation and I want to respond to it.
...
Who needs OOC knowledge?
If Usagi thinks about it, she'll recognize Kintoleski from her first trip down to Splash Star's home town. The guy's perfectly capable of participating in society as a normal guy. LIterally nothing about his actions suggests he's anything other than a straight combat threat, or that he's a threat at all when not being ordered to be a threat.
Innocent until proven guilty.
By contrast, Poisony has taken hostages and used mind control and psychological warfare against the Nagisa and Honoka before already, and we know about this in-character or could easily learn about it while discussing this even briefly. And whereas Kintoleski's unforced conversation is about desire to test warriors and about hoping to avoid unnecessary conflict, Poisony's ranting about murdering Cure Black and White's friends to weaken their resolve.
Proven guilty.
...
Usagi doesn't need OOC knowledge to be able to fathom the concept "some villainous characters can be trusted to honor a surrender, even if others probably can't."
And she damn sure doesn't need OOC knowledge to fathom the concept "believe the best of people unless they give you a very, very good reason not to," because that whole hope/optimism/compassion thing is one of her foundational character traits.
Your worries about unknown risks associated with banishing strike me as a bit overblown because most of them rely on the idea that one of our enemies would succeed in tracking down Kintoleski, subduing him, and using him as a weapon, and importantly that this would be more effective than just using whatever they had on hand against us more directly.
Poisony's scheme made use of Kintoleski because Kintoleski was readily at hand to be taken advantage of. An equivalent scheme that started from Kintoleski having dropped off the grid and wandered away entirely would take much more time and effort, and be a questionable move for them.
And, of course... while Kintoleski is strong, he's not THAT strong. Not so strong that we can't defeat him if we have to. He's a buff boy, not a superweapon.
I feel genuine sympathy that I would normally express as a hug-vote, but wasn't sure it would be right to hug-vote this, so I'm saying this instead.
- Location
- Finland
I'm going to slightly disagree with this.
Kintoleski kinda is a super weapon, but then so are the Pretty Cures, and Senshi are even more so.
Well, super soldiers, more accurately, but close enough.
He is still someone the Senshi can expect to defeat with pretty reasonable confidence though, and that confidence approaches certainty as we keep growing.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
What I mean is that he's not a superweapon when used against us. Our own continued existence is a working assumption we kind of have to make in our own future plans.
Again, what I'm getting at here is that the argument "Kintoleski is too powerful to be left alive and free as a loose cannon" is fundamentally rather flawed. You could make a similar argument about the strongest yokai, for instance, and I imagine the IMO does, and that it's a big part of the fundamental public-facing justification they give for enslaving and oppressing yokai. We have no trouble seeing the hole in the argument when it's the IMO making it, either.
- Location
- Finland
Which is why i disagree slightly, instead of completely.
Kintoleski would be fearsome, except his is a single shark swimming with a pack of orca's.
And yes, the argument that "he is too powerful" is fundamentally flawed, and would be even if he actually was that powerful relative to us.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x][Runoff] Purify him
Also, the police (and by extension the government) may be annoyed by us letting a member of a terrorist organization go free.
I mean, from the point of view of the police, they're going to want to know why we didn't just arrest him and turn him over to them.
I know it's not an option in the vote, but in-character the most sensible thing to do would be to hand him over to MCAT or the police (it would also allow a chance for the Pretty Cures to meet Samui and the superintendent).
I'd argue that it's more like that Gumiho who's allegedly a mass murderer and was used to murder other yokai. Sure, at least some of what she did was under duress, but you still wouldn't want to just let her go around unsupervised, since she's a possible mass murderer, definitely has a body count, and other yokai are terrified of her.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The police are still figuring out how to restrain supervillains, so a candid answer would be something like "I'm pretty sure that would just have ended with a comical Kintoleski-shaped hole in the side of your jail cell."
Letting him peaceably desert the bad guys' ranks is preferable to pointlessly antagonizing him.
Significant differences:
1) The gumiho going on a murder spree is at least plausible, in that other yokai anticipate it as a possibility and we have no way to dismiss that possibility out of hand. Kintoleski going on a murder spree is vanishingly unlikely.
2) We don't strictly know if Kintoleski has "a body count," and indeed it seems quite unlikely that he has a body count beyond the people he's personally killed in battle- which, ah, really isn't the same thing as like cold-bloodedly murdering and eating people or whatever.
The underlying problem here is that we can treat Kintoleski as either a soldier in an enemy army, or a criminal in a gang. If he's a criminal then of course we can't let him go around freely after what he's done... but then it's on us to prove that he is a criminal and apply standards of criminal intent. If he's more like a soldier, then if he surrenders and stops fighting for the enemy army, letting him have his parole becomes relatively reasonable.
I think of him as more like an enemy soldier- his participation in morally bad actions is not proof of profound personal moral guilt, but rather of being naturally affiliated with the wrong side of a conflict.
- Location
- Finland
Yes, handing Kinto to the police is not an option being voted on, and i find it very unlikely it will happen if we purify him without killing him in the process.
The police might also object to use killing him, if that ends up happening, so that risk needs to be remembered.
Also, it might be sensible to hand Kinto to the police/MCAT for detainment, but i'm not sure i would not call it very in character.
Being strong is not sufficient reason for detainment, or all the senshi should be in jail.
Gumiho, is an argument for future date, let's not have it here.
- Location
- Attached to a wall
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think that we could make a reasonable argument that we prioritize de-escalation and reducing civilian casualties over arresting or elimination.
We have had several opponents that have been coerced or brainwashed into doing what they are doing and setting up a precedent where those who have the courage or mental prowess capitulate should be put into either be released from the compulsory mechanism or allowed to retreat.
This will hopefully discourage behavior where someone will remain with the side that coerces them out of fear for what we will do to them.
Our math would change if we where able to ensure individuals who have been coerced or brainwashed if we where able to ensure that the combatants could be taken in with guarantees of protecting them from their previous factions. Maybe we use that leverage that criticism to propose have a joint venture with MCAT a Asylum for refugees from enemy factions and those magical suffering from magical compulsion as they are also likely to encounter similar problems with the Yokai that are bound to magical contracts.
If Kinto isn't willing to voluntarily accept being supervised by MCAT, then I wouldn't trust him with an unsupervised banishment.
Either he's trustworthy - in which case he can accept some kind of supervision to monitor his behavior - or he isn't.
- Location
- Finland
And if he can be trusted to stay in place purely out of honor, there's no need for police custody.
Jails exist for people who can't be trusted to act responsibly outside them short term.
- Location
- Finland
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
While that is interesting, I was talking about how Teiresias says he should be supervised and you say he shouldn't go to jail.
Still, all we can really do at this point is wait and see if the TMPD shows up before he leaves.
- Location
- Finland
I'm not saying he should not go to jail (well, i am, kinda, technically, but that was not my point).
What i am saying is that we may be in a situation where jail is either useless, or unnecessary.
Either we can trust him, in which case we don't need jail, or we can't, in which case he just walks out of jail (assuming MCAT does not have the means to contain him, which they might, but i would not bet on that).
And unless we start using somekind of tracking or loyalty magic, parole is just banish with extra work for us.
-[ ] Tell him we'll find him again once we have a way to purify him that doesn't kill him.
Makes it sorta parole already, this is not a permanent "get out of here", it's a "well check back on you in a bit".
It's pretty common in parole for the person to be required to have a supervising officer. And I'm pretty sure the Japanese government won't be happy about an ex-soldier of a terrorist organisation running around Japan unsupervised. It doesn't matter how honourable Kinto may act, or how trustworthy we may think he is - they won't like it (and they won't consider it a decision that we're empowered to make anyway), and they'll want an eye kept on him to make sure he really is sticking to the terms.
That's why I suggested outsourcing to MCAT or the police.
But this isn't an option in the vote, so it's ultimately a moot point.
- Location
- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Hmm, I'm feelingish like making a few spells. Not sure why, just do.
Noting that there were concerns about spell Prowess boosts possibly getting out of hand, I was thinking it might be interesting to have more spells with conditional boost/effects that aren't raw Prowess.
Sailor Moon
Lunar Cleaver
A spell that wraps melee weapons in an aura of cutting light, that cleaves through physical protections with the utmost of ease.
Increases Prowess boost for Beacon of War (Sword) by 1. +2 Prowess vs. Armored enemies.
Sailor Mars
Purging Flame
A spell that engulfs its target in fires that harm only spiritual entities or possessing powers, while leaving their hosts untouched.
Damages possessing entities directly without harming the possessed. +2 Prowess vs. Spirits
Sailor Mercury
Target Painting
A spell that wraps its target in an illusion that highlights its weaknesses and betrays its location.
Doesn't harm directly, but all other attacks against the target receive +1-3 Prowess depending on whether it possesses critical weakpoints. Makes hiding much harder for the target, giving an effective -3 Intrigue for such purposes.
I might come up with more later, or maybe not.
Noting that there were concerns about spell Prowess boosts possibly getting out of hand, I was thinking it might be interesting to have more spells with conditional boost/effects that aren't raw Prowess.
Sailor Moon
Lunar Cleaver
A spell that wraps melee weapons in an aura of cutting light, that cleaves through physical protections with the utmost of ease.
Increases Prowess boost for Beacon of War (Sword) by 1. +2 Prowess vs. Armored enemies.
Sailor Mars
Purging Flame
A spell that engulfs its target in fires that harm only spiritual entities or possessing powers, while leaving their hosts untouched.
Damages possessing entities directly without harming the possessed. +2 Prowess vs. Spirits
Sailor Mercury
Target Painting
A spell that wraps its target in an illusion that highlights its weaknesses and betrays its location.
Doesn't harm directly, but all other attacks against the target receive +1-3 Prowess depending on whether it possesses critical weakpoints. Makes hiding much harder for the target, giving an effective -3 Intrigue for such purposes.
I might come up with more later, or maybe not.