- Location
- South Africa
Their isn't necessarily a one-to-one correlation. The point is that they understand hierarchies. but the fight is still bigger than expected.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Just reading this makes me look forward to seeing Shu Yue a lot. I am looking forward to seeing their interlude that's coming out soon.
- Location
- Space
So, cities are part of a god and can decide its actions somehow? Seven parts, seven cities.
...I really want to ask about how their cultivation actually works, but can't think of a good way to phrase it at the moment. Something to do with the conversation we overheard where the peasant(?) shishigui were talking about giving up lifespan for cultivation and the not being how we do it, maybe?
My immediate questions are
[] What does it mean that Ha has "Hearts" but Ya has a "Sword"?
[] What is the collective term for their people as a whole?
The latter is because I dislike calling them "Shishigui" as that seems like a slur.
[] What does it mean that Ha has "Hearts" but Ya has a "Sword"?
[] What is the collective term for their people as a whole?
The latter is because I dislike calling them "Shishigui" as that seems like a slur.
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NoxOfUmbra
Shadow of the night
- Location
- Colombia, South América
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It sounds like a hivemind. Meaning their counter to a white is a "fusion" of all the city.
So... Ya, the city, is also, Ya, the god. And Ya, the city, is recruiting other cities to strengthen Ya, the god, by creating a great consensus/league. They are making use of a common enemy in the Empire to force this League.
So... Ya, the city, is also, Ya, the god. And Ya, the city, is recruiting other cities to strengthen Ya, the god, by creating a great consensus/league. They are making use of a common enemy in the Empire to force this League.
"A god divided" not "a league divided" ... Does this mean their high tier cultivation equivalent is a conglomeration effect vaguely along the lines of a hivemind?
[X]What is the nature of their cultivation system
Shu Yue is great and I can't wait to see what they will teach us.
This makes me think of a question like:
[X] What do you think the best way to deny them this consensus would be?
This is a really nice interaction. Shu Yue is Shenhua's problem solver and Ling Qi is aspiring to be Renxiang's. I feel like this is gonna be a great opportunity for Qi to learn what a left hand should do and Ling Qi is gonna be an excellent and versatile problem solver for CRX.
Hmmm, I'm glad that we attacked their base instead of their village. It makes it harder to have consensus. If your people weren't attacked but your military made to look like idiots that's gonna make people want the war less.
This makes me think of a question like:
[X] What do you think the best way to deny them this consensus would be?
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So the three part name is constructed like so: [God's (personal?) name)--[*ith=people]--[Kai=city], meaning something like [The *ith People of the City of the God (Foo)].
"Seven Part Sword"? Is this like the Seven Colored Sword of Ruin the Stars of the Cloud Tribes' use?
Anyways, the Ya-Lith-Kai are part of a league of city-states with at least seven cities, of which the sixth and seventh are under the Argent Peak Sect's lands and are facing resource depletion. However, Tcho-Ri believes that's only an excuse; she believes the Ya-Lith-Kai have manufactured a casus belli to get a war they can threaten/bribe/persuade other city-states with to join their league. Therefore, they have their villain in the cultural etiological myth of their league, presumably with the god Ya and their Voices serving as the Founding Fathers and Mothers.
For the questions to ask Tcho-Ri, the main thrust should be to figure out what the *ith in general and the Lith in particular need and want to ensure peace with the Empire. The Ya-Lith-Kai are trying to use the Empire as the Boogeyman for their war story; what's needed is to understand how the Empire can undercut that narrative so that, instead of fighting an expanding front, the Empire can isolate the Ya-Lith-Kai from their sister cities and deal with the Ya-Lith-Kai in detail.
Everything else -- the *ith's cultivation system, their children/elder weirdness, their religion, etc. -- all of that should be subordinate to the problem of the Ya-Lith-Kai trying to use War against the Emerald Seas as the answer for their domestic problems.
To that end, the questions should be to find a commonality between the *ith and the Empire's cultures that can be used to make each people treat the other as people, and then to find things -- materials, services, etc. -- that can be used to convince each people to consider peace with the other as an ideal goal.
Though I can't really think of anything other than a direct "What can we use to
I think it's important to continue on what the Ya-Lith-Kai want. That's sort of a thing for Ling Qi, asking about Want and finding ways to offer it to those she would befriend. And perhaps deny it to those she would not.
The Ya-Lith-Kai are pursuing war and conquest, and Tcho-Ri claims they're using war with the Empire to further nationalism. That means unity is a concern, that Ya is "a god divided", and perhaps the Seven-Part-Sword refers to seven cities that needs to be forged into a whole blade. The Ya needs to unify and are betting on rallying against the Emerald Seas and thus forge a League with an national identity ready to continue their expansionism.
This is a weakness and all we need to do is play Hui. What they want to achieve long term is what they need to achieve short term to stand against the Duchess, and is also precisely what the Cai are trying to do above with Shanhua's cultural reforms. Find their factions and what those factions want, divide them by turning the narrative against them. What other voices of Ya have Tcho-Ri head echo through the tunnels? What discontent forces their leaders to prioritize unity this far? What can we offer or threaten that these factions raise their voices against the war and the leadership?
[] Ask about the factions within the Ya-Lith-Kai and what they want?
The Ya-Lith-Kai are pursuing war and conquest, and Tcho-Ri claims they're using war with the Empire to further nationalism. That means unity is a concern, that Ya is "a god divided", and perhaps the Seven-Part-Sword refers to seven cities that needs to be forged into a whole blade. The Ya needs to unify and are betting on rallying against the Emerald Seas and thus forge a League with an national identity ready to continue their expansionism.
This is a weakness and all we need to do is play Hui. What they want to achieve long term is what they need to achieve short term to stand against the Duchess, and is also precisely what the Cai are trying to do above with Shanhua's cultural reforms. Find their factions and what those factions want, divide them by turning the narrative against them. What other voices of Ya have Tcho-Ri head echo through the tunnels? What discontent forces their leaders to prioritize unity this far? What can we offer or threaten that these factions raise their voices against the war and the leadership?
[] Ask about the factions within the Ya-Lith-Kai and what they want?
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Hmmm, up until now I was under the impression that cultivators of impurity lost lifespan as they rose in power, with their highest realms living for only years or months or less. It's curious, then, that they seem to have gods, high-level impurity cultivators, in long-term positions of power over their peoples. I would have expected things like delayed breakthroughs done only when the need is most great, due to the fact that in doing so they shave off a large chunk of their remaining life.
The hivemind hypothesis, or something in that direction, might be the way to reconcile this, unless I'm just wrong about shishigui lifespans.
The hivemind hypothesis, or something in that direction, might be the way to reconcile this, unless I'm just wrong about shishigui lifespans.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
We don't know for sure that the Shishigui gods are Shishigui themselves.
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Thing is I'm not certain their gods are cultivators at all. It's true for Imperial systems yes, but is it true for Shishigui? We don't know. From the sounds of it each city holds some fragment of their god or are fragments of their god itself but we don't know nearly enough to make authoritative statements.
- Location
- Spain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh!! Oh!!! OH!! So interesting!!!
Likely a homocules of Shenrua.
Also I doubt asking about factions will do since they likely won't know.
Heres two questions I really think could do.
[X] Ask about underground networks below emerald sea which Shishigui use to communicate and travel between each city.
Since it seems each city can contact each other this question also be useful for Bao and others to know how they communicate.
[X] Ask about lifestyle of the Shishigui to understand what they do and how their community works.
It be good to get good look into their community/ societal outlook.
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Mmm, we shouldn't necessarily focus too much on Ya-Lith-Kai - if nothing else because the Ha-Yith-Kai aren't them, and presumably only have so much inside knowledge on their politics.
However, if Tcho-Ri believes that their actions are part of a broader political strategy to build support among the different city states in ES, then perhaps a better question is:
[] Ask about the different cities/factions of the [shishigui - we don't have a name for the whole?] and what they want?
Try to get a broader picture. Who might be sympathetic towards Ya-Lith-Kai? Who isn't? How might we avoid the underground front expanding?
Agree with broader picture think though want to know about their network of travel and communication, since seems very important.
I don't they necessarily have high level cultivators. Not exactly and not in the way we think of.
The way Tcho-Ri has been talking, of consensus and of uniting as god to oppose the Duchess, it sounds like when they want to bring a White level power into play(their god) they do so by fusing into one. The way they also phrase their talk of Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword makes me think that they're not necessarily an individual but a singular name for a diverse group. Like how we might refer to the Bai wanting something, even thought the Bai as a clan are so large as to be more akin to an ethnicity and are divided among their castes and numerous factions within and across those castes.
Ha-of-Three-Hearts, Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword. Both of them have numbers in their names and the later reference to Ya-lith-kai's "sixth and seventh cities" makes me think that the number might be from the number of cities that come together to make a god. The way that Tcho-Ri speaks of becoming god only when the threat is annihilation of the people makes me suspect that even on a perfect run, they'd be burning up their population to power the god.
- Location
- Spain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Ask about underground networks below emerald sea which Shishigui use to communicate and travel between each city.
[X] Ask about the different cities/factions of the [shishigui - we don't have a name for the whole?] and what they want?
[X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.
[X] Ask why not all of their people seem to be sentient
[X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.
[X] What goods do your cities offer for trade, and what would you seek in return for trade?
[X] Ask about the different cities/factions of the [shishigui - we don't have a name for the whole?] and what they want?
[X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.
[X] Ask why not all of their people seem to be sentient
[X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.
[X] What goods do your cities offer for trade, and what would you seek in return for trade?
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- Location
- the internet
How about:
[] What is the World Corpse and why is it called that?
[] You named the Ya-Lith-Kai as the sixth and seventh cities. How many cities are there and where are they?
[] What are the other cities called, what are they like/known for? (esp. regarding relations with outsiders)
[] What is the World Corpse and why is it called that?
[] You named the Ya-Lith-Kai as the sixth and seventh cities. How many cities are there and where are they?
[] What are the other cities called, what are they like/known for? (esp. regarding relations with outsiders)
Seems pretty clear that Shishigui names are meant to convey some level of information about what is being named:
Tcho-Ri : Role (Mouth of the God) - Public Name (Ri)
Ha-yith-kai : God (Ha-of-Three-Hearts) - People (Yith) - City (Kai)
Ya-lith-kai : God (Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword) - People (Lith) - City (Kai)
Based on the context here you could make some assumptions about the names of the 'gods' as well. We know that the Ya are explicitly more warlike and larger than than the Ha, so maybe the parts could be interpreted like this:
Ha-of-Three-Hearts : Ha (name) - of Three (size/number of cities) - Hearts (cultural descriptor/Description of collective purpose?)
Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword: Ya (name) - the Seven Part (size/number of cities - we know this to be at least 7) - Sword (cultural descriptor/Description of collective purpose?)
I wonder what the Shishigui would make of the name "Ling Qi" then, if interpreted in the same way
As for questions, I feel like we are still missing some clear picture of the power structure and flow in Shishigui society, and if we're gonna be so involved with them I feel like it would be nice to understand how they make decisions.
This sounds like leadership so:
[X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.
And personally cause I like maps (also they do give good insights into politics):
[X] Ask if the Ha-Yith-Kai have any sort of a map of the underground areas that they would be able to share?
It'd be cool to dig into the sacrifice stuff, but I have no idea how to do that in one reasonable question
Tcho-Ri : Role (Mouth of the God) - Public Name (Ri)
Ha-yith-kai : God (Ha-of-Three-Hearts) - People (Yith) - City (Kai)
Ya-lith-kai : God (Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword) - People (Lith) - City (Kai)
Based on the context here you could make some assumptions about the names of the 'gods' as well. We know that the Ya are explicitly more warlike and larger than than the Ha, so maybe the parts could be interpreted like this:
Ha-of-Three-Hearts : Ha (name) - of Three (size/number of cities) - Hearts (cultural descriptor/Description of collective purpose?)
Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword: Ya (name) - the Seven Part (size/number of cities - we know this to be at least 7) - Sword (cultural descriptor/Description of collective purpose?)
I wonder what the Shishigui would make of the name "Ling Qi" then, if interpreted in the same way
As for questions, I feel like we are still missing some clear picture of the power structure and flow in Shishigui society, and if we're gonna be so involved with them I feel like it would be nice to understand how they make decisions.
This sounds like leadership so:
[X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.
And personally cause I like maps (also they do give good insights into politics):
[X] Ask if the Ha-Yith-Kai have any sort of a map of the underground areas that they would be able to share?
It'd be cool to dig into the sacrifice stuff, but I have no idea how to do that in one reasonable question
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Also, someone mentioned the simple question of [] What are the [people of the underground] called?
And while that would obviously be a good question just so we have something to call them, I think it's also actually something that gets at something really important. Because if they have a shared name for them all, then they have a concept of a shared culture and community, something that makes them distinct from, say, the Empire or the Cloud Nomads. What does it mean to be part of the not!Hellenistic shishigui world? How do they define themselves?
... honestly, that, along with the question about the bigger picture of the underground city states and their politics would be massive, and probably as much as anything an expression of interest in them and their culture as a prompt for later more in depth conversations since man, that would be a massive amount of stuff for @yrsillar to write
And while that would obviously be a good question just so we have something to call them, I think it's also actually something that gets at something really important. Because if they have a shared name for them all, then they have a concept of a shared culture and community, something that makes them distinct from, say, the Empire or the Cloud Nomads. What does it mean to be part of the not!Hellenistic shishigui world? How do they define themselves?
... honestly, that, along with the question about the bigger picture of the underground city states and their politics would be massive, and probably as much as anything an expression of interest in them and their culture as a prompt for later more in depth conversations since man, that would be a massive amount of stuff for @yrsillar to write
- Location
- The Space Between
[]- In which direction are the Holy Lands relative to here
[]- ask for a timeframe for when the Sixth and Seventh cities began to weaken
if we know which direction the Holy Lands are we can know more information to ask better questions in the future. My assumption is that the Holy Lands are Golden Fields, due to the Grave of the Sun being the largest known "Wound in the Nameless Mother" we know of in the Empire. Another contender is the South Pole, which has something deeply wrong that allows the Gates to exist.
Second question is to better try to match up an Imperial timeline to the Shishigui one. This weakening is said to have been caused by Argent Vents. That leads back to the time of Ogodei, which may have been a time of plenty for the undergrounders. I think it's somewhat obvious that there could be a link between 7Sword, the 7 Stars, and the fact that undergrounder cultivation is based around wounds of the Mother. Each of those impacts would have created a wound, and the nature of star-stuff to mutate and further wreak havoc on creation would make these wounds particularly septic.
There are two cities that have begun to weaken. The 6th and 7th. If, as we suspect, Shenhua has been involved with something of the Stellar stuff that was laying underground then we can differentiate whether it started becoming a problem after the fall of Ogodei or after Shenhua began to rise. This would also mean that 7Sword is making a gamble that the clash between Cloud Tribe and Imperials will produce enough wounds to get around the fact that some of the Stellar stuff that has kept the wounds of his seven cities septic. Prod the overworlders into war with one another, and profit from the carnage.
It's important, in my opinion, to try to establish both a timeline/timescale upon which undergrounders operate as well as the direction of their Holy Lands. They're simple questions that shouldn't be difficult to answer, and shouldn't be easy to misinterpret
[]- ask for a timeframe for when the Sixth and Seventh cities began to weaken
if we know which direction the Holy Lands are we can know more information to ask better questions in the future. My assumption is that the Holy Lands are Golden Fields, due to the Grave of the Sun being the largest known "Wound in the Nameless Mother" we know of in the Empire. Another contender is the South Pole, which has something deeply wrong that allows the Gates to exist.
Second question is to better try to match up an Imperial timeline to the Shishigui one. This weakening is said to have been caused by Argent Vents. That leads back to the time of Ogodei, which may have been a time of plenty for the undergrounders. I think it's somewhat obvious that there could be a link between 7Sword, the 7 Stars, and the fact that undergrounder cultivation is based around wounds of the Mother. Each of those impacts would have created a wound, and the nature of star-stuff to mutate and further wreak havoc on creation would make these wounds particularly septic.
There are two cities that have begun to weaken. The 6th and 7th. If, as we suspect, Shenhua has been involved with something of the Stellar stuff that was laying underground then we can differentiate whether it started becoming a problem after the fall of Ogodei or after Shenhua began to rise. This would also mean that 7Sword is making a gamble that the clash between Cloud Tribe and Imperials will produce enough wounds to get around the fact that some of the Stellar stuff that has kept the wounds of his seven cities septic. Prod the overworlders into war with one another, and profit from the carnage.
It's important, in my opinion, to try to establish both a timeline/timescale upon which undergrounders operate as well as the direction of their Holy Lands. They're simple questions that shouldn't be difficult to answer, and shouldn't be easy to misinterpret