Karl was technically accused of lying to his sworn lord for the purposes of stealing from him with blasphemy as the cherry on top
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
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Karl was technically accused of lying to his sworn lord for the purposes of stealing from him with blasphemy as the cherry on top
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- He/Him
[X] Forced to abdicate in favor of his son (seen as fair but likely to trouble lords as it is meddling in internal House business for something other than treason)
[X] Forced to abdicate in favor of his son (seen as fair but likely to trouble lords as it is meddling in internal House business for something other than treason)
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
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Yeah. I can't see Eddard supporting Manderly under those circumstances, but oddly enough I could see him working with Bolton to blunt the teeth in this proposal by preparing and immediate united front against it, forewarned enough to deliver arguments.
It helps that anyone without a smooth brain can tell we wouldn't allow it to pass.
The thing is, Viserys main argument, now private since Bolton made it on his behalf, kind of justifies itself by dint of another religiously concerned faction pointing it out. Other faiths, especially ones with large clout, would demand similar privileges, which could directly effect legal cases the Seven worshippers are involved with.
Why, did Manderly assume that it would not be for some reason? Rhetorical question. Seeing oneself as 'exceptional' in conduct often leads one who is used to being basically an absolute ruler in their personal demesne to be arrogant.
While the fear of Imperial authority and the Throne is fading somewhat, everyone in this room still thinks of it as absolute, going just by the complete silence to follow that staff smashing into solid rock, held by a giant steel dragon.
It must be a startling change, seeing another Viserys Targaryen having that much power over them, the same love of massive parties and extravagance, but y'know, an actual spine to use it and none of the famíly drama.
Granted, Argon V took the Throne AFTER his family drama passed, then went on to manufacture his own... So here's hoping we learn to nip our own in the bud as it presents itself instead of the classic Targaryen tactic of letting it fester as long as humanly possible.
It helps that anyone without a smooth brain can tell we wouldn't allow it to pass.
The thing is, Viserys main argument, now private since Bolton made it on his behalf, kind of justifies itself by dint of another religiously concerned faction pointing it out. Other faiths, especially ones with large clout, would demand similar privileges, which could directly effect legal cases the Seven worshippers are involved with.
Why, did Manderly assume that it would not be for some reason? Rhetorical question. Seeing oneself as 'exceptional' in conduct often leads one who is used to being basically an absolute ruler in their personal demesne to be arrogant.
While the fear of Imperial authority and the Throne is fading somewhat, everyone in this room still thinks of it as absolute, going just by the complete silence to follow that staff smashing into solid rock, held by a giant steel dragon.
It must be a startling change, seeing another Viserys Targaryen having that much power over them, the same love of massive parties and extravagance, but y'know, an actual spine to use it and none of the famíly drama.
Granted, Argon V took the Throne AFTER his family drama passed, then went on to manufacture his own... So here's hoping we learn to nip our own in the bud as it presents itself instead of the classic Targaryen tactic of letting it fester as long as humanly possible.
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[X] Forced to abdicate in favor of his son (seen as fair but likely to trouble lords as it is meddling in internal House business for something other than treason)
Yah no, you do not screw with our Imperal Laws.
Yah no, you do not screw with our Imperal Laws.
[X] Forced to abdicate in favor of his son (seen as fair but likely to trouble lords as it is meddling in internal House business for something other than treason)
No repeats of Westerosi political decay by letting this go lightly!
No repeats of Westerosi political decay by letting this go lightly!
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- Erd
[X] Forced to abdicate in favor of his son (seen as fair but likely to trouble lords as it is meddling in internal House business for something other than treason)
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Could you expand??? Like Manderly asked him what he though about a proposal which sounds lovely on the surface but could easily lead to "special goodies for seveners!" which he obviously wouldn't be up for and Stark then confided in someone who's most likely to be listened to for various reasons. And tbh to me if Ned only had "one" redeeming trait it would be his obvious love for his family which doesn't really have anything to do with this situation.
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It's more about betraying his trust by snitching to Bolton.
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Lord of Gifts
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It isn't snitching when a member of your political faction is about to make a really bad play in an open forum full of enemies. For all his honor, Ned Stark is not politically inept or willfully ignorant. There's a time to be honorable and there's a time to be smart, and this was the time to be smart.
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It should be noted that in pre-Imperial legal tradition (such as it was and what there was of it) lying to one's lord could be judged petty treason and get you killed. But also just to avoid any notion of 'aren't the Westerosi silly' consider this a bit of a Baelish situation, that is what the baron thought he was dealing with. Now what do you guys think should be the punishment for Littlefinger's shenanigans?
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@DragonParadox would delegating the responsibility of punishing Baron Condon to whichever Duke is his immediate liege lord be the better political move ?
That doesn't fucking matter, he was a man of honor. Now he is just a piece of trash that o have forsaken forever more.
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Littlefinger could go to jail for massive graft and theft.
If that were everything. Since he was also heavily into blackmail, associated with murder and the conditions in his brothels not always cleanly seperated from slavery I would upgrade for hanging.
Still, assuming this is Littlefinger back in Gulltown, before he became quite that bad in all he did, I wouldn't kill him over it. He was propably lying and grafting even back then, but the final results left a prosperous town, so I'd be perfectly fine with a fine and being blacklisted from goverment work.
And what this guy did is definitly not on the level of Littlefinger in King's Landing.
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A severe case of outliving ones usefulness, followed by Bloodraven eliminating him.
There were no judicial proceedings against him.
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Lord of Gifts
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Uh what kind of honor is lieing to your liege lord and sheltering the child of the heir to the previous dynasty? Lieing to your wife and the rest of your family while still preaching about it to your kids? That's not honor.
I really don't get what the hell you're talking about man.
His immediate lord is actually Count Cerwyn and yes leaving it up to him will please the lords, though it will displease institutionalists like the Sealord.
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Amusingly his actions regarding Jon followed his wife's family words to a T. His family(Lyanna) came before his duty(to the Crown) and honour(his own and his wife's).
Ned Stark was never a perfectly honorable man. He might have looked that way in canon in KL but that was because he was surrounded by those with no honor. A perfectly honorable man would not have served a king who was content to be crowned over the bodies of children or (depending on your perspective on what honor is) he would not have hid Jon. Honor is itself a social construct that everyone has to interpret like courage or generosity.