Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[x] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

I trust Hanyi when she says she wasn't informed. Anyone seeing a live screwup is going to remember that more than they'll remember (or care) about "excuses" after the fact (if you could even explain to everyone in the audience...). First performance needs to not be botched and if we were to participate and botch it that'd be worse than Hanyi failing on her own. No time to investigate before showtime so go with what you've prepared and then patch in the background. To me a perfectly executed snub (~diva) gets more respect than a failed attempt to improvise because you were thrown off your game (~mousy child).

How about we at least make the minimal effort possible to avoid the trap that has been set for us.

065tdsa said:

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

How about we at least make the minimal effort possible to avoid the trap that has been set for us.

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Sounds more like stepping right into it to me.

Valmond said:

Sounds more like stepping right into it to me.

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If you assume the priestess is lying, which she's not because she takes the brunt of the damage for any sabotage, seeing as how fixing it is her responsibility. The letters were obviously intercepted, creating a situation where both sides are telling the truth, suspect the other, and nobody can tell who is actually responsible for the mess, leaving the actual culprit unscathed.

The only possible solution is thus to try and perform correctly, as opposed to jumping right in to wreck people's fields like a moron.

[] Learn the missing piece yourself and take part in the performance (80% Success. Improved relationship with Clergy on success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Reduced benefits for Hanyi's reputation. Annoyed Hanyi)

This is intended to be Hanyi's big performance. Us going on the stage is going to steal a lot of spotlight from her. I really dont like that.


[] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

There are an awful lot of *on success* qualifiers on what is just a little better than cointoss odds. Sure, it would be cool if it actually worked, but it would screw us and her over, if it doesn't.

[] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

Here is the thing, I trust Hanyi about what she said regarding the list. She is a spirit herself and this is obviously important to her. So im inclined to believe this isnt her fault and someone is messing with her.

It just isnt fair to her to either force her into a sink or swim situation, when she already said she isnt confident, or to take over her performance (if LQ jumps in, people will see it as LQs performance, not Hanyi's). So yeah, i guess it is time for a power play.

[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

065tdsa said:

If you assume the priestess is lying, which she's not because she takes the brunt of the damage for any sabotage, seeing as how fixing it is her responsibility. The letters were obviously intercepted, creating a situation where both sides are telling the truth, suspect the other, and nobody can tell who is actually responsible for the mess, leaving the actual culprit unscathed.

The only possible solution is thus to try and perform correctly, as opposed to jumping right in to wreck people's fields like a moron.

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And when we fail to do so, we have pissed of the clergy and the nobles destroying any good will we might have had and damaged Hanyi's career, stepping straight into the trap.
3rd mitigates damage and ensures success where it matters.
I doubt clergy disliking us is going to hit us immediately, while we need our reputation intact next turn.

naths said:

Here is the thing, I trust Hanyi about what she said regarding the list. She is a spirit herself and this is obviously important to her. So im inclined to believe this isnt her fault and someone is messing with her.

It just isnt fair to her to either force her into a sink or swim situation, when she already said she isnt confident, or to take over her performance (if LQ jumps in, people will see it as LQs performance, not Hanyi's). So yeah, i guess it is time for a power play.

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Obviously Hanyi didn't lie. Because just as obviously, the letter was intercepted and replaced.

Valmond said:

And when we fail to do so, we have pissed of the clergy and the nobles destroying any good will we might have had and damaged Hanyi's career, stepping straight into the trap.
3rd mitigates damage and ensures success where it matters.
I doubt clergy disliking us is going to hit us immediately, while we need our reputation intact next turn.

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And when we 'succeed', the angry spirit will rampage all over the fields as soon as we're gone and someone will have to fix the damage, placate it extra expensively next year and blame us over the whole mess.

065tdsa said:

Obviously Hanyi didn't lie. Because just as obviously, the letter was intercepted and replaced.

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I would assume the letter was sealed, so interception is not necessarily as obvious.
Might have been some clerk or minor priest being bribed, might be the one arguing with us now not liking all this change, any number of options really.

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065tdsa said:

And when we 'succeed', the angry spirit will rampage all over the fields as soon as we're gone and someone will have to fix the damage, placate it extra expensively next year and blame us over the whole mess.

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Ling Qi is not an idiot, she is not going to just go in and punch the spirit in the face, nor would angry spirit going on a rampage count as "success" to me.

065tdsa said:

If you assume the priestess is lying, which she's not because she takes the brunt of the damage for any sabotage, seeing as how fixing it is her responsibility. The letters were obviously intercepted, creating a situation where both sides are telling the truth, suspect the other, and nobody can tell who is actually responsible for the mess, leaving the actual culprit unscathed.

The only possible solution is thus to try and perform correctly, as opposed to jumping right in to wreck people's fields like a moron.

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The point of the sabotage is likely to make LQ and Hanyi look like incompetent idiots who cannot be trusted to do their jobs well and presumably has a 40% chance of offending all 10 spirits.

The third option guarantees that 9 are happy and, given LQ's spirit diplomacy skills, is almost certainly going to have the last spirit be at least ambivalent.

Look at it this way: the spirits presumably want to be acknowledged and praised. Hanyi is acknowledging 9 of the 10 publically, thus making it look like she has intentionally left out one of them which is a clear insult. However we are Hanyi's superior and Hanyi's guardian. Our attention is arguably more valuable than hers but our actions will be more private, making them less rewarding for the spirit. So while the spirit will get acknowledgement and respect, it won't get the full ceremony.

That seems like enough to me that it won't wreck anyone's fields.

065tdsa said:

Obviously Hanyi didn't lie. Because just as obviously, the letter was intercepted and replaced.

And when we 'succeed', the angry spirit will rampage all over the fields as soon as we're gone and someone will have to fix the damage, placate it extra expensively next year and blame us over the whole mess.

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We don't know what success will look like. I.e. We might be giving the stream a personal song for instance.

Valmond said:

I would assume the letter was sealed, so interception is not necessarily as obvious.
Might have been some clerk or minor priest being bribed, might be the one arguing with us now not liking all this change, any number of options really.

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The person we are talking to obviously dislikes change because her entire job is to keep things running smoothly. The last thing she wants is to make change smash things even worse that it probably will. As far as someone like her would be concerned there is no need to sabotage, because she already thought we'd fail. She'd be looking for a way to make us go away outright, not make the problem she must fix after we're gone worse.

[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

Whoever is trying to sabotage this probably thinks out spirit ken only extends to our spirits and wants to embarrass us here. But we've convinced much more dangerous spirits of more than these stakes.

065tdsa said:

The person we are talking to obviously dislikes change because her entire job is to keep things running smoothly. The last thing she wants is to make change smash things even worse that it probably will. As far as someone like her would be concerned there is no need to sabotage, because she already thought we'd fail. She'd be looking for a way to make us go away outright, not make the problem she must fix after we're gone worse.

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If she was certain we would fail, she would not be so upset about what is going on.
And just because she thinks we'll fail is no reason not to be extra sure of it through sabotage.

I don't expect her to be the one guilty (except maybe of incompetence), but i am not gonig to discount her either.

Valmond said:

If she was certain we would fail, she would not be so upset about what is going on.
And just because she thinks we'll fail is no reason not to be extra sure of it through sabotage.

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She's upset because 'this freaking brat didn't even learn what she was supposed to do, and she's blaming me, and i have to put up with this' is exactly the sort of thing she was told would not happen, and it is happening right in front of her as far as she can tell. So obviously, she's upset.

If she'd done the sabotage she'd be all conciliatory and 'given that you're not ready at all you should walk along now', with either obviously fake or very believable regret depending on how good she's at keeping the fact everything went according to plan to herself.

065tdsa said:

She's upset because 'this freaking brat didn't even learn what she was supposed to do, and she's blaming me, and i have to put up with this' is exactly what she was told would not happen, and it is happening right in front of her as far as she can tell. So obviously, she's upset.

If she'd done the sabotage she'd be all conciliatory and 'given that you're not ready at all you should walk along now', with either obviously fake or very believable regret depending on how good she's at keeping the fact everything went according to plan to herself.

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Or she comes here being super hostile to make people think she did not expect this.
We have no idea what kind of social arts she has, all we know that she seems to have started out more hostile than necessary, but not why.
There is more going on here than we know.

Wait jesus why are people being bullheaded about this. #3 is straight up going f the consequences I do what I want.... despite this being an event meant to gain positive relations ....



[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep
[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally.

I'm more in favour of Encouraging Hanyi, but so long as we don't send Ling Qi on the scene I'm good.

Mr.rodent said:

Wait jesus why are people being bullheaded about this. #3 is straight up going f the consequences I do what I want.... despite this being an event meant to gain positive relations ....

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No it's not.
Like, seriously, all it does is piss of the clergy while leaving nobles alone and making sure we succeed.
2 is, if anything, buggest "fuck the consequences" vote because it takes biggest risks.

[X] Learn the missing piece yourself and take part in the performance (80% Success. Improved relationship with Clergy on success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Reduced benefits for Hanyi's reputation. Annoyed Hanyi)

2 is definitely not "F the consequences", because it takes specific chances to avoid consequences. Steps which may fail, of course, but just going ahead with a choreography we were informed is insulting to one of the ten spirits is just rude.

glyph said:

2 is definitely not "F the consequences", because it takes specific chances to avoid consequences. Steps which may fail, of course, but just going ahead with a choreography we were informed is insulting to one of the ten spirits is just rude.

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2 has a fairly good change of just failing completely.
3 makes sure we succeed with Ling Qi dealing with the 10th spirit, and the argument that we are going to just go in all arrogant young master like and face slap the spirit to submission is pretty silly considering that is pretty much polar opposite of Ling Qi's usual methods.

Sure, 2 has chances of failing, but it's failing with good intentions instead of just saying "screw it". And honestly, if placating the spirits was so easy, Hanyi wouldn't need to make sure her choreography was suitable to them in the first place -- we could just go on a Spirit Diplomacy tour before the show

glyph said:

Sure, 2 has chances of failing, but it's failing with good intentions instead of just saying "screw it". And honestly, if placating the spirits was so easy, Hanyi wouldn't need to make sure her choreography was suitable to them in the first place -- we could just go on a Spirit Diplomacy tour before the show

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We will be spending the event placating the spirit instead of talking with nobles, one is probably easy, ten is not, because we are constrained by time.