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Seeing Red [Naruto]

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uju32 said:
Iryojutsu entered the mix as soon as we invented and applied the Final Hurricane seal, because applying sealwork tattoos to your own body means that you need a pretty comprehensive understanding of human biology.

Also?
We're an Uchiha bloodline user with Sharingan eyeballs that require unique care, and there's no Konoha eye specialist that we trust to handle care for Hisana and Sasuke short of Tsunade; every other Leaf doctor is vulnerable to Danzo pulling rank or a Sharingan mindwipe.

Furthermore, the only non-Leaf doctors who know shit about Uchiha biology(that we're aware of) are respectively Tobi/Obito, Madara, Zetsu and Orochimaru/Kabuto. Not an appealing range of choices.
So homebrewed medical care it is.

We need Iryojutsu at A-rank before then.

Frankly we dont have the years to sit down and learn Sage Mode the old-fashioned way, or the aptitude to use Naruto's cheat.
Orochimaru never managed to learn Sage Mode on his own, Tsunade never bothered, Jiraiya never mastered it after multiple decades of life, and Naruto was still dealing with a time limit on his before getting Kurama's cooperation.

Ergo, we will need to pull a Kabuto. Mad science super science ourselves a solution to that problem.

We've been OOC contemplating getting to Sage Mode via fuinjutsu instead of biological alterations, since we know that Orochimaru's curse seal models Juugo's transformation and use of natural energy by tapping and channelling nature energy safely to boost the user into a supermode.
Getting a look at the medical reports on the Sound Four we killed or incapacitated should help there.

Or just stealing some of Orochimaru's notes. Or getting a look at Anko's Curse Seal of Earth.

If we go that route, that requires another upgrade to the Final Hurricane seal structure.
Which requires both Iryojutsu and Fuinjutsu at A-rank minimum, or higher. Maybe even Intelligence or Schooling needs to be higher to represent broader theoretical knowledge, though I suspect B-rank in both should be enough since we're not pioneering unique innovations.
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GrimTheMad said:
This strikes me as a lot of assumption presented as fact, to be honest.

Lets at least try it the normal way before reaching for the mad science, yeah?

Because until we do we absolutely can't say with confidence that Hisana can't do it.

I'm not terribly interested in continuing to rank up Iryojutsu unless and until we find out its actually necessary- so far there's been no sign that continued sealing progression will rely on it. Like, Hisana didn't appear to need high medical knowledge to wire a seal into her nervous system, so the assertion that she must need it to upgrade the Final Hurricane more is... odd?
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It occurs to me that we might not even have a choice on wether to level Iryojutsu or not, since there's a good chance that as soon as Tsunade takes one look at us and what we've done to ourselves, including the seals based on her own, she's going to grab us and yell at us and not let us out of her sight until we're up to her standards.

I just found out baby ravens have blue eyes. The Sharingan, of course, is red.
So have Sage Mode Hisana's Sharingan go from red to blue. With blue face markings.
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Ooh, neat!
 
Gnarker said:
It occurs to me that we might not even have a choice on wether to level Iryojutsu or not, since there's a good chance that as soon as Tsunade takes one look at us and what we've done to ourselves, including the seals based on her own, she's going to grab us and yell at us and not let us out of her sight until we're up to her standards.
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This had me looking back and wow; the Tsunade retrieval mission hadn't even occurred when we left. I wonder if we missed Itachi showing up, quite likely by a matter of hours given the timelines involved, or if due to the various changes he decided against it?

Among other things that makes Hisana's achievements here even more important since she is still (technically) a Genin. Given this is a month long contract:
Tekomandor said:
The contract's for a month, but she should pack emergency rations only.
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and the Tsunade Retrieval Mission lasted about a month we should probably be arriving back home just in time to report directly to Tsunade as the new Hokage. So Tsunade's first impression of Hisana will be of her coming back from an A-Rank mission which started as simple guard duty but escalated into overthrowing the local Daimyo. Plus covertly (?) bringing back samples of advanced Chakra Armor for Konoha R&D.

Yeah that question of Chunin vs. Special Jonin:
Tekomandor said:
"You should be more excited, you know. But yes, my dear student will be a chunin when they manage to drag one the Third's wayward students back here to be the new Hokage. In fact, they were thinking about promoting you to special-jounin, because of all that freaky sealwork. But I have something even cooler for you," Kakashi said.
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will almost certainly end up tilted towards Special Jonin. Jonin is absolutely out due to Hisana's lack of experience despite her Jonin tier skills and capabilities. As crazy as it may sound Hisana has done a grand total of two missions outside of D-Ranks. The caravan escort mission and the successful movie escort mission. Both A-Rank.

While it is certainly impressive for her to have completed two A-ranks, one of which we didn't even end up hospitalized over, the fact Hisana has only completed two missions makes her promotion to Chunin, let alone the fact she'll like get Special Jonin, rather questionable. Fortunately for us Konoha is rather short handed thanks to the Kyuubi and Konoha Crush (as seen by intentionally sending Genin on an A-Rank) so we're going to get promoted so Konoha can justify continuing to send us out on high paying missions.
 
GrimTheMad said:
This strikes me as a lot of assumption presented as fact, to be honest.
Lets at least try it the normal way before reaching for the mad science, yeah?

Because until we do we absolutely can't say with confidence that Hisana can't do it.
I'm not terribly interested in continuing to rank up Iryojutsu unless and until we find out its actually necessary- so far there's been no sign that continued sealing progression will rely on it.
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But that's no fun:p

More seriously?
Fact: Orochimaru never learned Sage Mode. He allegedly learned to handle natural energy, he engineered Sage Transformation into his clone-children in the Boruto canon, but he never figured it out, allegedly because his body was not strong enough???.
Fact: Tsunade never learned Sage Mode.
Fact: Jiraiya never mastered Sage Mode; he required the Toad Elders to gather natural energy for him and channel it safely.
Fact: Naruto never mastered Sage Mode; he cheated. First by using clones to gather natural energy, which put a time limit on his transformations until he got chummy enough that Kurama would gather natural energy for him. Then Hagoromo blessed him.
Fact: Kabuto modified his body with Jugo's biology in order to figure out how to gather natural energy safely.
Fact: The Curse Seal is based around Jugo's biology and his ability to channel natural energy safely

There are precisely two people humans who we know used Sage Mode freely and unaided without modification: Senju Hashirama. Jugo. Thats it.
Even Minato only used Sage Mode after becoming an Edo Tensei jinchuuriki and implanting a tailed beast into his chakra network.
Ditto Madara.

We didnt attempt to get faster organically; we invented the Lightning Blood seal in a couple weeks to cheat, because we were not going to build our plans around spending several years to become as fast as people several times our age. I'm really not seeing any reason why we would wait to try to see if we can match Hashirama's feat organically if we can figure out a shortcut.

As for Iryojutsu?
: points at eyes :
We are at the confluence of some unique biological requirements. Both personally, and in our monkeysphere. Itachi's failing eyesight after less than a decade without medical care compares unfavorably to both Danzo and Obito using Mangy Eye like party favors for over sixteen years.

Kakashi and Sasuke both have Sharingans that are plot-significant. Kakashi already has a Mangy Eye which is imposing significant constraints on him, and Sasuke's is just as likely to evolve into Mangy Eyes upon trauma, at which point its a countdown to blindness unless there's an expert in Uchiha biology around or we're willing to cut out someone's eyes.

And that's assuming Hisana doesnt awake Mangy Eyes herself, or hasnt already met the requirements for it.

Remember, its trauma involving someone that the user cares strongly about that activates it, not murder; Sasuke didnt have to kill Itachi to awake Mangy Eyes in canon, he just watched him die. Ditto Madara, Obito and Shisui.
And Hisana-Mary both died, and already watched her Uchiha mother die.Hmmm.

Anyway, its pretty unlikely that the Trenchcoats who seem to have some interest in hitting at least some milestones of canon are going to leave the Uchiha alone. Which makes this our problem.
We can ignore until it becomes an issue that actively has to be addressed, or we can be proactive.

EDIT
Note that Shin Uchiha seems to have activated Mangy Eyes via some unknown process , so its possible that this AU might have other wrinkles in play. Certainly the Trenchcoat Uchiha with Mangy Eyes and Susanoo during the Konoha Invasion got them activated somehow, and I doubt it was natural, not if he was hanging around with Orochimaru.

Or that he'd accept future blindness.

Gnarker said:
It occurs to me that we might not even have a choice on wether to level Iryojutsu or not, since there's a good chance that as soon as Tsunade takes one look at us and what we've done to ourselves, including the seals based on her own, she's going to grab us and yell at us and not let us out of her sight until we're up to her standards.
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:V
That's a fair point.
Remedial book learning from a Hokage horrified at Hisana's tapdancing along the border of fuinjutsu-aided transhumanism without guardrails or adult supervision. And no, Kakashi doesnt count as adult supervision:V

Tsunade: Hatake, get in here. I have words for you.
 
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Something else to consider is that Hisana is already canonically designing her Final Hurricane Seal with Sage Mode in mind:
Tekomandor said:
Her original design for her Final Hurricane Seal's chakra pathways wasn't as scalable as she'd thought; and if she wanted to eventually retrofit senjutsu capability to it she needed it to be able to channel vastly more chakra.
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which is honestly just a variation of Naruto's cheat and thus a continuation of our history of stealing ideas from other great ninja. I imagine the plan would be to have parts of the Final Hurricane Seal dedicated to storing Natural Energy, much like how the current seal is partitioned into five 50 Chakra blocks, which Hisana would activate on demand. I suppose she could also design a sub-seal for gathering Natural Energy automatically (like with the Cursed Seals) but that isn't necessarily a requirement.
 
UberJJK said:
will almost certainly end up tilted towards Special Jonin. Jonin is absolutely out due to Hisana's lack of experience despite her Jonin tier skills and capabilities. As crazy as it may sound Hisana has done a grand total of two missions outside of D-Ranks. The caravan escort mission and the successful movie escort mission. Both A-Rank.

While it is certainly impressive for her to have completed two A-ranks, one of which we didn't even end up hospitalized over, the fact Hisana has only completed two missions makes her promotion to Chunin, let alone the fact she'll like get Special Jonin, rather questionable. Fortunately for us Konoha is rather short handed thanks to the Kyuubi and Konoha Crush (as seen by intentionally sending Genin on an A-Rank) so we're going to get promoted so Konoha can justify continuing to send us out on high paying missions.
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Point of correction:
Konoha Crush counts as an S-rank, between the Sound Four, Kimimaro and Gaara's tailed beast form.
So her tally will be 2x A-ranks and 1x S-rank prior to Snow.

Snow probably gets retroactively assessed as an S-rank, both for the combat (multiple jounin antagonists) and the political implications .
Probably gets charged as one too by Konoha's mission office.
Regime change is not something you leave to a genin team.

People outside the village will probably assume that either Konoha is lying about her real record(see Kabuto, and all the poor ROOT kids) or that its to be expected by someone trained by that lineage of teachers.

So yeah, Hisana probably gets jumped up to Special Jounin.
Then confined to the village with the rest of her team for the next two months to make sure she can survive at that level.
Especially if they ran into Itachi.
 
We know for a fact that it's possible to have seals gather nature energy, since it's the basic principle behind the Village Obliteration Jutsu.

The plan is to ultimately have a seal gather nature energy and artificially maintain the correct balance of energy natures for Hisana, so she can access sage mode in-combat without having to split her attention.

Hisana doesn't have the time to learn medical techniques beyond the minimum necessary to make her various chakra seals work. If we hit a roadblock that needs more medical knowledge to pass, then we'll hit the books, but doing so speculatively and pre-emptively risks being a waste of time, and time is our most precious resource by far.
 
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UberJJK said:
which is honestly just a variation of Naruto's cheat and thus a continuation of our history of stealing ideas from other great ninja. I imagine the plan would be to have parts of the Final Hurricane Seal dedicated to storing Natural Energy, much like how the current seal is partitioned into five 50 Chakra blocks, which Hisana would activate on demand. I suppose she could also design a sub-seal for gathering Natural Energy automatically (like with the Cursed Seals) but that isn't necessarily a requirement.
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Nah; the point is more to get a realtime accumulator running, not just a store for Natural Energy.
Thats certainly what Im aiming for.
Else you might as well just be using a Curse Seal knockoff.

If we're learning from the Ravens in that eventuality, its to figure out what unique techniques can be used under Sage Mode.
Maybe they have a Sage Mode-enabled sword/archery technique, for instance, the way the Toads have a specific taijutsu style to take advantage of Sage Mode boosts.

We might want to consider asking if we can hire Anko for a mission, assuming it's legal and she's willing.
We can probably afford it, and she's literally walking around with a Curse Seal prototype.

GrimTheMad said:
My primary motive for not wanting more Iryojutsu is that I am completely sick of the female member of the team always being the healer, if one exists at all.
Most of those things you said also apply to Sasuke, let him do it.

And I think it's extremely unlikely that Tsunade will care about Hisana's sealing, except for how useful they are.

As for Sage mode: I'd honestly rather not learn it at all than go the Kabuto route, but I see zero reason to not just try whatever method the Ravens have first. If it looks like we will need years to learn it, then we can reconsider.

But I'd like to point out that we do, probably, have years to learn it. Like three.
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1)Thats a misconception on your part.
Its the support member of the team being the healer. Thats usually the female member, but not always; C was the healer on the Raikage's team.
Team 7 doesnt have a support member. If you go through the list of Mystical Palm users in the manga, you'll find a fair number of dudes; C, Kiri, Kabuto.

2) Let me go through the great medical scientists in canon:
  • Orochimaru. Who has done everything from creating Senju implants to implanting Wood Release bloodlines to culturing Sharingans to feeding Sasuke with growth drugs.
  • Kabuto. See Orochimaru.
  • Sasori. Turned himself into a magical cyborg, and turned other people into remotely piloted drones.
  • Madara. Created the Rinnegan by blending Uchiha and Senju DNA. Grew Hashirama's flesh into a TREE. Healed Obito.
  • Tsunade. Nuff said
  • Chiyo. Gave herself combat prosthetics, and brought someone back to life.

Two thirds are male. Then there's all the nameless mednin we see.

3) We do not control Sasuke's actions, only our own.

4) I would not assume that things are going to work over the same timespan in this quest as they did in canon.
Notice the Zetsuswarm that attempted to kill or kidnap us in our first C-rank? The readers didnt even know that Zetsus existed at this point in time in canon, let alone that they were made out of Senju/Hashirama DNA. Here, Konoha Intelligence is aware.

The Trenchcoats and Chakra Cloaks have been active here for a while. Butterflies are beating.
 
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uju32 said:
Nah; the point is more to get a realtime accumulator running, not just a store for Natural Energy.
Thats certainly what Im aiming for.
Else you might as well just be using a Curse Seal knockoff.

If we're learning from the Ravens in that eventuality, its to figure out what unique techniques can be used under Sage Mode.
Maybe they have a Sage Mode-enabled sword/archery technique, for instance, the way the Toads have a specific taijutsu style to take advantage of Sage Mode boosts.

We might want to consider asking if we can hire Anko for a mission, assuming it's legal and she's willing.
We can probably afford it, and she's literally walking around with a Curse Seal prototype.


1)Thats a misconception on your part.
Its the support member of the team being the healer. Thats usually the female member, but not always; C was the healer on the Raikage's team.
Team 7 doesnt have a support member. If you go through the list of Mystical Palm users in the manga, you'll find a fair number of dudes; C, Kiri, Kabuto.

2) Let me go through the great medical scientists in canon:
  • Orochimaru. Who has done everything from creating Senju implants to implanting Wood Release bloodlines to culturing Sharingans to feeding Sasuke with growth drugs.
  • Kabuto. See Orochimaru.
  • Sasori. Turned himself into a magical cyborg, and turned other people into remotely piloted drones.
  • Madara. Created the Rinnegan by blending Uchiha and Senju DNA. Grew Hashirama's flesh into a TREE. Healed Obito.
  • Tsunade. Nuff said
  • Chiyo. Gave herself combat prosthetics, and brought someone back to life.

Two thirds are male. Then there's all the nameless mednin we see.

3) We do not control Sasuke's actions, only our own.

4) I would not assume that things are going to work over the same timespan in this quest as they did in canon.
Notice the Zetsuswarm that attempted to kill or kidnap us in our first C-rank? The readers didnt even know that Zetsus existed at this point in time in canon, let alone that they were made out of Senju/Hashirama DNA. Here, Konoha Intelligence is aware.

The Trenchcoats and Chakra Cloaks have been active here for a while. Butterflies are beating.
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I deleted that post because I didn't want to gum up the thread with this exact argument.
 
uju32 said:
:V
That's a fair point.
Remedial book learning from a Hokage horrified at Hisana's tapdancing along the border of fuinjutsu-aided transhumanism without guardrails or adult supervision. And no, Kakashi doesnt count as adult supervision:V

Tsunade: Hatake, get in here. I have words for you.
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Oh, don't be like that. We've only put four different seals onto ourselves. Of those, only one was likely to go catastrophically wrong and cripple us, namely the Lightning Blood seal frying our brain. Maaaybe two, if the Final Hurricane seal has a chance of making our chakra network overload and blow up. The Chakra Armor and the Ejecting Storage Arrays... well there still might have been a remote chance of overloading our local chakra circuits or like, exploding and showering us in a hail of kunai, but they're basically safe. Relatively. I think.
Anyway, point is, you're totally exaggerating the risks!

Redshirt Army said:
Hisana doesn't have the time to learn medical techniques beyond the minimum necessary to make her various chakra seals work. If we hit a roadblock that needs more medical knowledge to pass, then we'll hit the books, but doing so speculatively and pre-emptively risks being a waste of time, and time is our most precious resource by far.
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Between Shadow Clones and personal tutoring by the greatest medic the world has ever known, it's propably not as extreme of a time investment as it'd be otherwise, and we're already at B-rank in Iryojutsu. Plus, if we get it to A we should get another trait out of that. We might even get good enough to put our seals onto our friends and teammates, if it goes well enough.
Jiraya may also get wind of our seals. The only thing better for your progress than the personal attention of one Sannin is that of two Sannin, as long as neither of them is Orochimaru.


Completely unrelated idea: Our new sword is designed to reassemble (regenerate?) itself after it's broken. Does anyone think we might be able to work out special techniques to exploit this? Like, working out efficient ways for fragmenting it on command and putting fractal Puppetry seals on it so we can reenact Senbonzakura/the Third Kazekage's Iron Sand techniques/Guren's crystal stuff gone metal, or do stuff like blowing it up inside an enemy and then ripping the fragments out of their body?
I mean, a chidori-charged explosively-fragmenting sword to the gut, where the individual fragments repeatedly ricochet inside the body...
If I had to come up with an attack that might with luck stand a chance of one-shotting Kakuzu, that's roughly what it'd look like, for example.
 
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GrimTheMad said:
I deleted that post because I didn't want to gum up the thread with this exact argument.
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Ah. My apologies.
Redshirt Army said:
Hisana doesn't have the time to learn medical techniques beyond the minimum necessary to make her various chakra seals work. If we hit a roadblock that needs more medical knowledge to pass, then we'll hit the books, but doing so speculatively and pre-emptively risks being a waste of time, and time is our most precious resource by far.
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I honestly dont think Hisana has that option.
All the Uchiha/Sharingan specialists are dead.
Only one that may still be alive are in ROOT or in Sound or Akatsuki. Or maybe the Trenchcoats.

I trust Tsunade to handle general medical care, assuming they get her to return, but Sharingan-specific issues involve a level of information and research we cant give her. And entirely too much of the plot revolves around Sharingan-specific issues for my comfort.
Gnarker said:
Oh, don't be like that. We've only put four different seals onto ourselves. Of those, only one was likely to go catastrophically wrong and cripple us, namely the Lightning Blood seal frying our brain. Maaaybe two, if the Final Hurricane seal has a chance of making our chakra network overload and blow up. The Chakra Armor and the Ejecting Storage Arrays... well there still might have been a remote chance of overloading our local chakra circuits or like, exploding and showering us in a hail of kunai, but they're basically safe. Relatively. I think.
Anyway, point is, you're totally exaggerating the risks!
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:V
 
uju32 said:
but Sharingan-specific issues involve a level of information and research we cant give her.
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Why can't we? It's not like there's a bunch of Uchiha that would forbid it or get mad.

The only one we'd need to convince is Sasuke, and I'm pretty damn sure we could manage that given a good reason.

It's the benefits of being a clan of two- clan laws or secrets or whatever only matter as much as we want them to.

Thanks Itachi. :V
 
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While it is true that there have been plenty of butterflies going on in the background something to keep in mind is that there were (presumably) reasons why Akatsuki delayed going after Jinchuriki for another three years. So while we shouldn't assume we've got years to train up we also shouldn't assume we don't.

On the training front; personally I think we should probably invest the effort in getting most/all our skills up to A-Rank. While points only really matter for omakes (we've never gotten an option to distribute them in updates) going from A-Rank to S-Rank takes twice (160 vs 80) the points as going from B-Rank to A-Rank. Admittedly we don't know what S-Rank perks look like but two Perks from A-Rank skills, on top of the A-Rank skills themselves, is pretty challenging to beat.

Speaking of which here is the current rank up numbers:
Advanced Ninjutsu: 10xp to B-Rank
Taijutsu: 10xp to B-Rank
Uchiha Clan Style: 10xp to B-Rank (+10xp for Taijutsu to B-Rank)
Konoha Military Combatives: 10xp to B-Rank (+10xp for Taijutsu to B-Rank

Basic Genjutsu: 20xp to B-Rank
Canon Knowledge: 20xp to B-Rank

Chakra Capacity: 35xp to A-Rank

Fuinjutsu: 40xp to A-Rank
Touch Seals: 40xp to B-Rank
Storage Seals: 40xp to A-Rank (+40xp for Fuinjutsu to A-Rank)
Iaido: 45xp to A-Rank

Leaf Style: 50xp to A-rank

Iryojutsu: 70xp to A-Rank
Genjutsu: 72xp to A-Rank
Intelligence: 75xp to A-Rank
Strength: 75xp to A-Rank

Sharingan Genjutsu: 80xp to A-Rank (+72xp for Genjutsu to A-Rank)
Schooling: 80xp to A-Rank (+75xp for Intelligence to A-Rank)
Speed: 85xp to S-Rank

Kenjutsu: 130xp to S-Rank
Chakra Control: 135xp to S-Rank

Ninjutsu: 160xp to S-Rank
We have a fair number of skills just 10xp away from B-Rank and a cluster of skills between 35xp and 50xp away from A-Rank. Most interestingly our first S-Rank skill (Speed) is only 85xp away. That is still a massive amount but not unreasonably so like S-Ranks would otherwise be.
 
uju32 said:
Fact: Jiraiya never mastered Sage Mode; he required the Toad Elders to gather natural energy for him and channel it safely.
Fact: Naruto never mastered Sage Mode; he cheated. First by using clones to gather natural energy, which put a time limit on his transformations until he got chummy enough that Kurama would gather natural energy for him. Then Hagoromo blessed him.
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Ok, you seem to be under a misconception here. Your idea of "mastering" Sage Mode seems to mean being able to draw in natural energy even when moving. Let me clarify, unless you have the Sage Transformation bloodline, such a thing is impossible. Normal sages, who don't have the Jugo Clan's bloodline(either naturally or by science) have to be perfectly still in order to draw in nature chakra, which naturally gives their Sage Mode a time limit based around how much nature energy they were able to gather before they started moving(that said, it is possible to improve how much natural energy you can gather at once, Hashirama and eventually Naruto were so skilled all they needed was a few seconds to gather a crazy amount of natural energy, more then enough to enter Sage Mode).

Still, no matter how skilled a Sage gets at gathering natural energy, the inability to do so while moving means combat would always be on a time limit unless they developed work arounds.

Jiraiya's work arounds were indeed to use those toads to gather natural energy for him, because it doesn't matter if the thing(Jiraiya) the toads were sitting on was jumping and moving around like a ferret on speed, as long as those toads were keeping themselves perfectly still they could still gather natural energy that they could send to Jiraiya.

Because Kurama was being a little bitch, Naruto couldn't use the toad method himself, forcing him to use the shadow clone method at first. Though you are right in that once Kurama got over himself and became friends with Naruto, Naruto could rely on Kurama gathering the natural energy for him(which is honestly pretty damn broken as far as Sages go).

But you don't seem to be aware that Hashirama also had his own work around. Hashirama was not an exception when it came to the "can only gather natural energy while not moving" rule. In an ironic reversal to Jiraiya's toad method, the work around Hashirama used to never run out of natural energy in a fight was ride those giant animated wood statues of his, keeping himself perfectly still while the statue moves for him.

Also, when Jiraiya mentioned that he had not yet fully mastered Sage Mode, he wasn't talking about how he gathered natural energy, he was talking about his appearance. Those who can perfectly mix nature energy in with there chakra(like Naruto and Hashirama) only develop a few cosmetic changes while in sage mode(like Hashirama's tattoos and yellow eyes or Naruto's eyeliner and toad eyes) with the changes being based around the style of sage mode you were using(the toads and snakes had different styles and then there's whatever style Hashirama used). But Jiraiya was not so skilled when it came to such mixing and balancing his chakra with natural energy.

Jiraiya was not able to properly balance his own chakra with natural energy, and as a result his appearance takes on a number of toad-like traits when using Sage Mode: his nose grows bigger and gains warts, his teeth turn sharp, he grows a goatee, and acquires toad-like eyes. Because of these traits, Jiraiya does not like to use Sage Mode as it "displeased the ladies". Some of the physical alterations, such as the toad posture and the webbed feet, are beneficial and improved his maneuverability, and he can consciously manifest the alterations in order to take advantage of them.
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GhostKing 666 said:
Ok, you seem to be under a misconception here. Your idea of "mastering" Sage Mode seems to mean being able to draw in natural energy even when moving. Let me clarify, unless you have the Sage Transformation bloodline, such a thing is impossible. Normal sages, who don't have the Jugo Clan's bloodline(either naturally or by science) have to be perfectly still in order to draw in nature chakra, which naturally gives their Sage Mode a time limit based around how much nature energy they were able to gather before they started moving(that said, it is possible to improve how much natural energy you can gather at once, Hashirama and eventually Naruto were so skilled all they needed was a few seconds to gather a crazy amount of natural energy, more then enough to enter Sage Mode).
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You are mistaken.

Sage Mode is supposed to be instant if you've mastered it.
The first ninja sage Hashirama was instant. Jiraiya was explicitly stated to be using an imperfect version; when the Toad Elders were summoned at his fight with Pain, they exchange words to that effect IIRC. Naruto also was using an imperfect variant.

Staying still is supposed to be for training.
Not for someone who's actually mastered the technique.
Note that the Toad Elders were not still during Jiraiya's Pain fight; they talked, they made comment, they cast ninjutsu and genjutsu.
 
GhostKing 666 said:
Also, when Jiraiya mentioned that he had not yet fully mastered Sage Mode, he wasn't talking about how he gathered natural energy, he was talking about his appearance. Those who can perfectly mix nature energy in with there chakra(like Naruto and Hashirama) only develop a few cosmetic changes while in sage mode(like Hashirama's tattoos and yellow eyes or Naruto's eyeliner and toad eyes) with the changes being based around the style of sage mode you were using(the toads and snakes had different styles and then there's whatever style Hashirama used). But Jiraiya was not so skilled when it came to such mixing and balancing his chakra with natural energy.
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No.
You are mistaking the Elders comment about Jiraiya's vanity for their commentary about his skills.

Naruto manga chapter 376, first page.
Literally the first thing the Toad Elders say there is, paraphrasing, "You need to start being able to go into Sage Mode by yourself."
To which he replies by comparing himself as a babe to the other two.
 
uju32 said:
No.
You are mistaking the Elders comment about Jiraiya's vanity for their commentary about his skills.

Naruto manga chapter 376, first page.
Literally the first thing the Toad Elders say there is, paraphrasing, "You need to start being able to go into Sage Mode by yourself."
To which he replies by comparing himself as a babe to the other two.
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  • In order to gather enough natural energy to initiate the transformation into Sage Mode, the user must remain perfectly still, leaving them vulnerable. Users have at times been shown entering Sage Mode without this preparation.[8]​[9]​
  • Because the user needs to move during combat, the senjutsu chakra cannot be replenished, which means the user can't stay within this state for extended periods of time. Naruto states it is possible to lengthen the time limit.[10]​
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Quote directly from the wiki. The only people who could enter sage mode while moving were Jugo's clan, and that was because of a bloodline
 
GrimTheMad said:
Why can't we? It's not like there's a bunch of Uchiha that would forbid it or get mad.
The only one we'd need to convince is Sasuke, and I'm pretty damn sure we could manage that given a good reason.

It's the benefits of being a clan of two- clan laws or secrets or whatever only matter as much as we want them to.

Thanks Itachi. :V
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We cant because a lot of things Hisana knows are from OOC knowledge.
There are no specifics in the documentation, and the oral knowledge died with the clan members.
Thats why we're shit out of luck.

How is the orphan Hisana, raised outside the Uchiha, supposed to know about the Mangy Eye's side effects?
How would she know anything about the circumstances of the chakra drain on Kakashi? Remember that Sasuke literally didnt know how Sharingan activation worked until Tobirama explained about the actual mechanics of the "Curse of Hatred" during the Fourth World War.

How do you convince the Godaime Hokage to literally drop everything else to focus on Uchiha eyecare?
She's not Orochimaru, she's got a village to run and multiple other important medical shit to pursue.

And you have to do all this with the knowledge that Danzo is right there, with the authority to requisition almost anything in the village.
 
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    Chunin Duties 7.1
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    • Chunin Duties 7.1

    Hisana smiled as she felt the warmth of the noon sun. It had been a long journey back home, but their ship had just docked back in the Fire Country's capital. The huge port city's architecture struck Hisana as bizarre, though it was the same mixture of feudal Japan and the 1970's that the rest of Hisana's world was. At first, she'd thought ninja villages were just a little backwards but here was a vibrant city, one of the largest in the known world, and it was exactly the same.

    "Ready to go home, boss? Reckon they'll have burnt it down while you were gone?" Karin asked, grinning.

    "They're not that bad. At least not anymore," Hisana said.

    "I'm sure Naruto wouldn't do that, Hisana," Hinata said, blushing a little. The three of them continued to chat for a while, and when the ship was finally ready they departed with a few words of farewell to the director and the crew. Hisana was carrying some gifts for her brothers in her storage seal - a signed poster for the newest Princess Gale movie for Naruto, a new winter cloak for Sasuke.

    "Hisana!" someone shouted, and she whirled around. Her hands went to her sword for a moment, before she recognised Iruka. What was here doing all the way out here waiting for them, Hisana thought with growing dread.

    "Iruka-sensei? What are you doing here?"

    "It's - well, a lot has happened. Sasuke and Kakashi were hurt, but both have recovered. The new Hokage sent me to escort you back as quickly as possible," Iruka said, and Hisana felt her dread release slightly. So she'd missed Itachi - Sasuke would need her help now more than ever, even if he was physically fine.

    "What happened?" Hisana asked as she and her team began to follow Iruka over the rooftops.

    "I don't know the full details, but Kakashi and your cousin were attacked by a missing-nin. As was Naruto, but he was with Jiraiya of the Sannin and - well, I get the impression that he's mostly just worried about having so many friends in the hospital," Iruka said.

    "He better be fine. Who's the new Hokage?" Karin said.

    "Naruto and Jiraiya managed to convince Tsunade to return and accept the position - she's already managed to heal Sakura," Iruka replied, smiling. At that, Hisana felt relief - Sakura had been so badly injured when she'd been fine in the original timeline. Iruka didn't have much information on what had happened, but hearing that everyone had made it through meeting Itachi and Kisame was enough. She could still help them if they alive and in the village.

    At full ninja speed, Konoha was only a few hours away. They blurred between tree branches, carefully answering the long-range sentries requests for passphrases. ANBU units were apparently still being vectored to any incoming chakra signatures, though they'd let Hisana and the others through without trouble.

    By the time they reached Konoha, the sun was starting to set. Hisana was surprised by how glad she was to be back - over the last few years, this place had become her home. They ran the familiar path over the rooftops towards the Hokage Tower, and Hisana could see the rubbish leftover from what had to have been Tsunade's coronation being slowly cleaned up by some long-suffering members of the genin corps.

    "I'll leave you here - I have a shift at the mission desk soon. It's good to see you three back in one piece," Iruka said, smiling proudly. The three of them walked into the Hokage tower, up the spiral staircase, and were waved into the Hokage's office.

    "You're back!" shouted Naruto, with considerable volume. He leapt up from where he'd been sitting and hugged all three of them - Hisana, Hinata, and Karin - at once. Hisana hugged him back a little gingerly, and looked over at Tsunade.

    She looked somewhere between twenty-five and thirty-five, her features just ambiguous enough to cause confusion. She was dressed in the outfit Hisana remembered from the anime, and she could also just about feel the chakra from her unique transformation.

    "Ah, get off them brat. They're fine, just like I said they would be, so scram," Tsunade said, though her words lacked any real bite.

    "Yeah yeah, granny," Naruto said, waving his hand as he left.

    "And what d you three have to say for yourselves? You were sent to bodyguard an actress so a film could be insured, and you ended up winning a civil war in the Land of Snow?" Tsunade said, glancing at an open folder on her desk.

    "I made a judgement in the field that the best way to ensure filming could be safely completed was to eliminate the threat of Doto, Lady Hokage" Hisana said, with a straight face.

    "Well, the new ruler there was very pleased with you. Sent me a very glowing telegram. As is our own Daimyo - he's been enthusing to me about how this will help the Land fo Fire. So good job, but if you ever pull an excuse that bad on me again, you'll regret it. Clear?" Tsunade said.

    "Yes, Lady Hokage," Hisana said, trying not to smile.

    "So you're where all the politeness on Team Seven went. Alright, get your formal reports in soon and be at the mission desk at oh-nine-hundred. You, Uchiha, stay behind," Tsunade said. Karin and Hinata left, leaving Hisana alone in the office with the new Hokage. Tsunade gestured for Hisana to take a seat.

    "What did you want to talk to me about, Lady Hokage?" Hisana said.

    "A couple of things. First off, Itachi Uchiha infiltrated Konoha. He managed to injure your sensei, and then your cousin later. We've received intelligence that he and his partner, one Kisame Hoshigaki, are part of an organisation targeting jinchuuriki. He was here for Naruto,"

    "Not Sasuke?" Hisana asked, hopping Tsunade bought it.

    "No. Your team can fill you in on the rest of that. The other thing, is what the fuck are you doing with those seals?" Tsunade asked, gesturing towards Hisana's final hurricane seal.

    "Ah, well I tested them on shadow clones-" Hisana began.

    "And I suppose that ignorant brat Kakashi didn't do much to restain you. Come over here and let me look at them," Tsunade order, and Hisana complied. Technically she was protected by regulations as she hadn't performed any untested seals on anyone else, but that was a fine line. Medical ninja could be notoriously touchy about such things. "Parallel chakra storage seal? Pseudo-coils in the expanded form? It's an interesting design. I can't see any serious flaws... which means you're a lucky idiot, at least"

    Hisana didn't speak up as Tsunade turned to inspect her lightning blood seal. Getting away with 'no serious flaws' was probably the finest compliment she'd ever had on her sealing.

    "Are you insane, girl? A jutsu formula to perform genjutsu on your own brain - how have you not died from using this?" Tsunade asked.

    "I added an automatic cut-off, Lady Hokage,"

    "Well, at least you have some sense. I can see Naruto and Jiraiya weren't exaggerating when they said you were good. If I could spare you from mission duties, I'd send you to a three-month stint in R&D to see if you could crack Orochimaru's Cursed Seal. Your sealing style is divergent enough from Konoha standard that you might find something,"

    "Thank you, Lady Hokage. On that topic, I recovered some prototype-chakra armour from the Land of Snow," Hisana said.

    "Oh did you now? Drop it off at R&D... but yes, you can keep a set to work on in your own time. And from now on, I want you to show me any more seals you decide to put on yourself before you inscribe them," Tsunade said, and then dismissed Hisana with a wave of her hand.

    Naruto was waiting for her outside the Hokage tower.

    "Eh, how'd it go with Granny Tsunade?" Naruto asked.

    "Only you could get away with calling her that. But it went fine, though I have to show her any new seals I want to inscribe on myself before I do it," Hisana replied.

    "She can probably be really helpful - she's super strong, sis, and she healed Sakura!" Naruto said.

    "Iruka told me about that. How is she?"

    "Well, you know, she's still recovering but the old lady said she could be a ninja again. Anyway, we're having a team meeting!" Naruto said, leading Hisana down a familiar path.

    "At Ichiraku's?" Hisana said.

    "Hehe, Sensei made me organise it," Naruto said, and they were there. Kakashi and Sasuke were sitting at the bar already, though they hadn't yet ordered.

    "Ah, my favourite student returns!" Kakashi said, smiling. Naruto laughed, while Sasuke just sighed. "I know I did promise that everything would be fine while you were gone, but while some light combat might have happened, your house has not burnt down..." Kakshi continued.

    "Did any of you eat anything but takeout and rations while I was gone?" Hisana asked.

    "I made a tomato sandwich one time," Sasuke said, speaking up for the first time. He looked tired, but the smile he had at seeing her back warmed Hisana's heart.

    "Without you and me, sometimes I think Naruto would starve!" said Teuchi, as he approached the bar. He was carrying bowls of ramen - Team Seven's usual orders. She could see the tension in Sasuke not vanish entirely, but he seemed to relax at least a little as she sat down next to him.

    "It's good to be back," Hisana said, smiling.

    Hisana has some downtime before her next major mission. What three projects will she begin to work on during that time?

    [x] Analyze the Chakra Armour recovered from the Land of Snow.

    [x] Work out the last problems with her Beast Slaying Vacuum Talon.

    [x] Try and improve on her Sealing by working on her Final Hurricane Seal.

    [x] Try and improve on her Sealing by working on her Lightning Blood Seal.

    [x] Try and improve her taijutsu by training with Gai and Lee.
     
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    • [x] Try and improve on her Sealing by working on her Lightning Blood Seal.
    [x] Analyze the Chakra Armour recovered from the Land of Snow.
    [x] Work out the last problems with her Beast Slaying Vacuum Talon.
     
    uju32 said:
    We cant because a lot of things Hisana knows are from OOC knowledge.
    There are no specifics in the documentation, and the oral knowledge died with the clan members.
    Thats why we're shit out of luck.

    How is the orphan Hisana, raised outside the Uchiha, supposed to know about the Mangy Eye's side effects?
    How would she know anything about the circumstances of the chakra drain on Kakashi? Remember that Sasuke literally didnt know how Sharingan activation worked until Tobirama explained about the actual mechanics of the "Curse of Hatred" during the Fourth World War.

    How do you convince the Godaime Hokage to literally drop everything else to focus on Uchiha eyecare?
    She's not Orochimaru, she's got a village to run and multiple other important medical shit to pursue.

    And you have to do all this with the knowledge that Danzo is right there, with the authority to requisition almost anything in the village.
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    So we're just assuming that the Uchiha kept no medical records anywhere? That sounds extremely unlikely. Medical records aren't the kind of thing you keep through oral tradition.

    I guess the Uchiha being the Uchiha technically could given the photographic memory of the Sharingan, but its still a really bad idea the presents failure points that don't need to be there.

    Sasuke being oblivious to it tells us nothing- he might well have just not looked, given the circumstances.

    And also that any of this will ever be relevant- so long as we don't fuck up enough for mangy eyes it shouldn't even matter, unless you're saying we should make Iryojutsu one of our primary skills just to save Itachi.

    Kakashi shouldn't be a worry, I think? It doesn't seem like a pressing issue and apparently he solves it just fine in canon.

    I'm just not seeing a compelling reason for Hisana, personally, to be the one who needs to fix this.
     
    pandadogunited said:
    Quote directly from the wiki. The only people who could enter sage mode while moving were Jugo's clan, and that was because of a bloodline
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    That's wrong though.
    We literally see Hashirama do this without prep midfight against Madara. Twice. We see Minato go Sage Mode without warning or time limit, though he has Yin Kurama to help him. And the Toad Elders need no warning either, and have no limit on their Sage Modes.

    Furthermore, I checked the citations appended to those statements:
    8: Chapter 535 page 5. Naruto using sensing to find out that was happening. When he activates Sage Mode later on, its instantaneous.
    9: Chapter 665 page 14. Minato did not take time to activate Sage Mode; it literally was as instant as Kakashi using Kamui or Gaara activating a technique.
    10: Chapter 468 page 16. Naruto was talking about how long HE personally could hold it. Not suggesting that someone like Jiraiya had a time limit using his own method.

    None of them support that Wiki claim. I cant post pictures because copyright but you can check for yourself.
     
    [x] Work out the last problems with her Beast Slaying Vacuum Talon.

    [x] Try and improve on her Sealing by working on her Lightning Blood Seal.

    [x] Try and improve her taijutsu by training with Gai and Lee.
     
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