[X] Put pressure on the High Septon to speak against the inflammatory preaching
[X] Reasure the people that no, we're not being invaded by Devils. We're invading them. :V
 
Interlude MLXXXIV: Of Faith and Fear
Of Faith and Fear


Twenty-First Day of the Seventh Month 294 AC

To say the authority of the High Septon over his brothers and sisters in the Faith had taken a blow in the aftermath of the reconquest would be understating matters to an almost comical degree.

"There is about as much order in the Faith as there is in Oberyn's sheets most mornings," Doran Martell had confessed one evening over wine and tea in the gardens, and while his sister may have rolled her eyes over his choice of simile, no one argued the point.

Yet disordered as it might be the authority of the Faith is, it is the best chance you have at ending the conflict in the Vale without the use of force. So far there has not been much lawbreaking, only petty crimes of defiance like vandalism and insults hurled at the officials of the realm, most of whom had nothing to do with the matter that had so riled up the Valemen, interspersed here and there with the hints of more dangerous things.

A party of travelers from the Crownlands had been attacked on the road and forced to turn back, a priest of the Red God had barely escaped a fire at the inn he was staying when a few of the locals decided to test the power of his 'devil god'. In all cases the perpetrators had been found and were now serving out their sentences, but it will be no easy task now to go among the dales and bring word of soap and spirits from the Ministry of Health, much less the virtues of education or the uses of Low Magic.

A lot of people had gotten it into their heads that you were robbing graves to raise them in your armies, or that you were kidnapping children for the use in your dark sorceries, or whatever kettle full of tripe the last tinker to pass through the village had half-heard and passed off even worse. Part of you wants to fly off at once across the Vale and explain. You could find the words, of that you are sure, at least until the cold voice of practicality reminds you that the words are likely to be different from person to person and there are only so many hours in the day and night to make one's self heard by all of them

The first step is to get the septons to stop spreading nonsense, to stem the flood before you can worry about what you are going to do about the mud it would inevitably leave behind, and that it turns out is a lot harder than simply asking the High Septon.

"What would you have me do, Your Majesty? Threaten to cast them from the bosom of the Faith?" the man speaks in a tone too soft to be called exasperation, though it is clear he wishes he could allow himself the luxury. "Little will that matter to those who were already speaking out against the conclusions of the Conclave in Oldtown, who whispered that I must have been deceived somehow or worse, that I myself was in league with the deceivers, that I am not a shepherd worthy of the Golden Crook, but indeed the very wolf of which the flock must be wary. They do not say it openly, Your Majesty, and they have little in the way of formal leadership yet for the learned and the wise find their arguments painfully lacking, but one does not need to be wise to be loud, nor indeed to draw a following. If I were to send one among the Most Devout to speak to the ringleaders what do you think they would find? Reasoned theological argument?"

"I imagine not," you reply quietly, recalling the times you had dealt with the like. Yet you doubt the High Septon had come before you to say that he is powerless. No, he wants something from you, some price for his aid perhaps, and to be fair there are some prices you are willing to pay for peace, just as there are those you would not in ten9thousand years accept.

"The smallfolk are afraid, Your Majesty," the priest continues. "They whose lives change only slowly like gentle lapping waters of a still lake laying down sediment layer upon layer now see a great wave looming over them, and then must either trust that it shall bear them up or they must drown. It is not the priests any whom I send will have to convince, but the very folk of the Vale, and hard will it be for any voice, even one consecrated to speak against the ones who have served there for years or decades. So tell me, Your Majesty, what can the brothers I shall send to the Vale promise will not change, that truths of old will they be able to pass on to their children? What in all the strangeness of this new world can they keep?"

It is more than just for the smallfolk of the Vale that he is speaking, that much at least is clear for all with ears to hear the faintly ragged edge in a voice well trained to show only such emotions as its bearer wishes.

You weigh your next words with care for this is not a question you have been oft answered and so far your promises have had more to do with the future over the past.

What do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: It has been a while since we had an open vote so here is a chance at some soft policy making by proxy.
 
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Of Faith and Fear

Twenty-First Day of the Seventh Month 294 AC

To say the authority of the High Septon over his brothers and sisters in the Faith has taken a blow in the aftermath of the reconquest would be understating matters to an almost comical degree. "There is about as much order in the Faith as there is in Oberyn's sheets most mornings," Doran Martell had confessed one evening over wine and tea in the gardens, and while his sister may have rolled her eyes over his choice of simile, no one argued the point. Yet disordered as it might be, the authority of the Faith is the best chance you have at ending the conflict on the Vale without the use of force. So far there has not been much lawbreaking only petty crimes of defiance like vandalism and insults hurled at the officials of the realm, most of whom had nothing to do with the matter that had so riled up the Vale-folk, interspersed here and there with the hints of more dangerous things.

A party of travelers from the Crownlands had been attacked on the road and forced to turn back. A priest of the Red God had barely escaped a fire at the inn he was staying when a few of the locals decided to test the power of his 'devil god'. In all cases, the perpetrators had been found and were now serving out their sentences, but it will be no easy task now to go among the dales and bring word of soap and spirits from the Ministry to Health, much less the virtues of education or the uses of Low Magic.

A lot of people had gotten it into their heads that you were robbing graves to raise them in your armies, or that you were kidnapping children for the use in your dark sorceries, or whatever kettle full of tripe the last tinker to pass through the village had half-heard and passed off even worse. Part of you wants to fly off at once across the Vale and explain. You could find the words, of that you are sure, at least until the cold voice of practicality reminds you that the words are likely to be different from person to person and there are only so many hours in the day and night to make one's self heard by all of them

The first step is to get the septons to stop spreading nonsense, to stem the flood, before you can worry about what you are going to do about the mud it would inevitably leave behind, and that, it turns out, is a lot harder than simply asking the High Septon.

"What would you have me do, Your Majesty? Threaten to cast them from the bosom of the Faith?" the man speaks in a tone too soft to be called exasperation, though it is clear he wishes he could allow himself the luxury. "Little will that matter to those who were already speaking out against the conclusions of the Conclave in Oldtown, who whispered that I must have been deceived somehow or worse, that I myself was in league with the deceivers, that I am not a shepherd worthy of the Golden Crook, but indeed the very wolf of which the flock must be wary. They do not say it openly, Your Majesty, and they have little in the way of formal leadership yet, for the learned and the wise find their arguments painfully lacking, but one does not need to be wise to be loud, nor indeed to draw a following. If I were to send one among the Most Devout to speak to the ringleaders, what do you think they would find? Reasoned theological argument?"

"I imagine not," you reply quietly, recalling the times you had dealt with the like. Yet you doubt the High Septon had come before you to say that he is powerless. No, he wants something from you, some price for his aid perhaps, and to be fair there are some prices you are willing to pay for peace, just as there are those you would not in ten thousand years accept.

"The smallfolk are afraid, Your Majesty," the priest continues. "They whose lives change only slowly, like gentle lapping waters of a still lake laying down sediment layer upon layer, now see a great wave looming over them, and then must either trust that it shall bear them up or they must drown. It is not the priests any whom I send will have to convince, but the very folk of the Vale and hard will it be for any voice, even one consecrated, to speak against the ones who have served there for years or decades, so tell me Your Majesty what can the brothers I shall send to the Vale promise will not change, what truths of old will they be able to pass on to their children? What in all the strangeness of this new world can they keep?"

It is more than just for the Smallfolk of the Vale that he is speaking, that much at least is clear for all with ears to hear the faintly ragged edge in a voice well trained to show only such emotions as its bearer wishes.

You weigh your next words with care, for this is not a question you have been oft answered and so far your promises have had more to do with the future over the past.

What do you reply?

[] Write in

OOC: It has been a while since we had an open vote so here is a chance at some soft policy making by proxy. Not yet edited.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
I mean... what can we honestly offer that is of the 'old ways' to people?

Make it a choice to send their kids to school? Allow them to speak openly against things so long as it non-violent? What can do give now that won't mess with plans for future later?
 
[X] They can keep to their faith and to the loyalty and trust they have shown their lords in the past.
-[X] Send word to the Inquisition to prepare discrediting and dismantling the Faith in the Vale. If the High Septon can't control them, then it is time to turn the people against the Septons.
 
[X] "Tell them that their gods still watch over them, as they have for untold centuries, and that they will continue to do so for centuries to come. The land on which they live, the land upon which they and their ancestors have labored, will still be there for their children, their children's children, and many following generations to come. When they pass from this corporeal existence, their souls will be welcomed into the embrace of the Seven and their descendants will continue to live their lives as their parents and grandparents did."
-[X] "Ask them not to let fear rule their lives, for while their is much darkness and pain in the world, there is also much light and life, joy and laughter. While the Seven will do their part to shepherd the souls of their worshipers, it is the duty of the Imperium to protect its citizens from more material threats. The Imperium cannot fulfill this duty if it's forces are occupied with policing the fearful and recalcitrant."
-[X] In case the High Septon's intervention proves ineffective, send word to the Inquisition to prepare to discredit and dismantle the organized Faith in the Vale. If the High Septon can't control his subordinates, then it is time to turn the people against them. Perhaps more reasonable replacements can be found to shepherd the wayward flocks.
 
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Dismantling the Vale's religious structure feels harsh, as unless I'm misunderstanding this doesn't really seem to be the fault of the local Septons.
Indeed, my ideal medium-term fix would be to get the High Septon to reassert spiritual guidance /control over the area. He's a lot easier to steer than grassroots fears and rumors, after all!
In the long term I don't want to rely on a strong Faith though, but I'm sure the Red Priests and our new Education Minister will help bring some religious plurality (and/or less religion if our Minister gets her way) in there.

On another note, wasn't the Chosen of the Smith going around in the Vale? Can we bribe him to go do some preaching in the area or something?
The Chosen all sort of vanished in narrative null-space though. Not sure if we should bring them back 😓

@Goldfish, a few ideas we could throw in there too:
  • The Vale's knights are still around and will definitely kill Fiends! Now they've got magic swords and flying steeds
  • Their lords are still there, still providing leadership and protection like they have for centuries :)rolleyes:)
  • Hard work still gets rewarded, the land still yields its bounty to those who work it, and taxes are low
 
I was not sure if I should post this in an update and in the end decided against it, but to get an idea of why the faith is having such trouble, this was their background roll for how much the High Septon is able to control the situation, and generally how much influence he can still exert at the moment:
 
I was not sure if I should post this in an update and in the end decided against it, but to get an idea of why the faith is having such trouble, this was their background roll for how much the High Septon is able to control the situation, and generally how much influence he can still exert at the moment:
It's not like he's been repeatedly undermined by multiple precognitive archmages for years on end before seeing most of his temporal power shattered...
 
Dismantling the Vale's religious structure feels harsh, as unless I'm misunderstanding this doesn't really seem to be the fault of the local Septons.
Indeed, my ideal medium-term fix would be to get the High Septon to reassert spiritual guidance /control over the area. He's a lot easier to steer than grassroots fears and rumors, after all!
In the long term I don't want to rely on a strong Faith though, but I'm sure the Red Priests and our new Education Minister will help bring some religious plurality (and/or less religion if our Minister gets her way) in there.

On another note, wasn't the Chosen of the Smith going around in the Vale? Can we bribe him to go do some preaching in the area or something?
The Chosen all sort of vanished in narrative null-space though. Not sure if we should bring them back 😓

@Goldfish, a few ideas we could throw in there too:
  • The Vale's knights are still around and will definitely kill Fiends! Now they've got magic swords and flying steeds
  • Their lords are still there, still providing leadership and protection like they have for centuries :)rolleyes:)
  • Hard work still gets rewarded, the land still yields its bounty to those who work it, and taxes are low
I updated the wording of the part of my vote that I stole from @Azel. My intent isn't to simply gut the Faith and leave the people to pick up the pieces. It's a measure of last resort, plus some efforts would be made to find less fire, brimstone, and dumbassery types of septons to replace those removed from their positions.

-[] In case the High Septon's intervention proves ineffective, send word to the Inquisition to prepare to discredit and dismantle the organized Faith in the Vale. If the High Septon can't control his subordinates, then it is time to turn the people against them. Perhaps more reasonable replacements can be found to shepherd the wayward flocks.
 
[X] Go mind control theoffending priests and plant false evidence framing them as the devil traps. Have the inquisiton uncover it and have public trials. Maybe have a few dozen summoned appear in the air to go arrest them. Spinning the narrative as the seven sending angels to protect them from Manipulation. Have the angels endorse trust in us.
 
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