Well, considering we absolutely must finish the Thunder Province mess by a rather close deadline, I'd rather not slow down that front to boost a less urgent one.
It would be wonderful if we can finish up both fronts at the same time, but it is a luxury I am not sure we can afford.
On the other hand, I think we can probably handle a war with the WW and Khem, if that is all we are doing.
The two unknowns concerning the Khem are: the army size we'll need to hold them off on land, and the income hit we'll face due to a likely partial blockade by sea.
We can mitigate, to some degree, the latter by amassing enough loans. (On the other hand, loans are starting to worry me, since there doesn't seem to be an option to pay them back. A permanent income hit would be a real blow.)
I think that a Black Sheep resolution will involve some kind of surrender agreement, rather than strictly conquering all their land. We can technically seek such an agreement now, but we'll need to do more damage to Western Wall before we can seek a a surrender from them. A simultaneous surrender is our goal, so my thinking is: keep doing damage to the Black Sheep (we have a lot of intrigue actions on this already), but start doing serious damage to Western Wall--via the redeployment--and in a few years, seek a surrender from both.
The two unknowns concerning the Khem are: the army size we'll need to hold them off on land, and the income hit we'll face due to a likely partial blockade by sea.
We can mitigate, to some degree, the latter by amassing enough loans. (On the other hand, loans are starting to worry me, since there doesn't seem to be an option to pay them back. A permanent income hit would be a real blow.)
I think that a Black Sheep resolution will involve some kind of surrender agreement, rather than strictly conquering all their land. We can technically seek such an agreement now, but we'll need to do more damage to Western Wall before we can seek a a surrender from them. A simultaneous surrender is our goal, so my thinking is: keep doing damage to the Black Sheep (we have a lot of intrigue actions on this already), but start doing serious damage to Western Wall--via the redeployment--and in a few years, seek a surrender from both.
Fixing a loan currently can be done by enforcing an unfair trade deal. We essentially would have traded a point of opinion and 2 influence for 1 treasury.
(On the other hand, loans are starting to worry me, since there doesn't seem to be an option to pay them back. A permanent income hit would be a real blow.)
This is mostly an artifact of the Mass Levy being active. You are absolutely not going to pay the loans back until you don't have to support a million men in the field.
Caught up, and well, I wonder what our faction would look like from an outside ck2 questor perspective...
I mean, we are the crazy gun merchants taking ton of loans to maintain an army that eclipses every other force, and is winning a three front war...
This is mostly an artifact of the Mass Levy being active. You are absolutely not going to pay the loans back until you don't have to support a million men in the field.
Also, the Khemetri are going "what the heck are up with these Ymaryn? Raise million-man army, capitulate to Hellas."
(Well, no, they and everyone IC see it as a bribe for Hellas to go away, like with the Strymyr, but yeah. They're definitely laughing at the absurdity in their pubs.)
That clears up my main worry; thanks for the clarification!
Also, the Khemetri are going "what the heck are up with these Ymaryn? Raise million-man army, capitulate to Hellas."
(Well, no, they and everyone IC see it as a bribe for Hellas to go away, like with the Strymyr, but yeah. They're definitely laughing at the absurdity in their pubs.)
Pretty sure that no polity in the entire game has ever really gotten the Ymaryn. The closest we got to someone who did was the one family of farmers we settled on our river and realized we fully intended to just assimilate them.
We do things for nonsense reasons because we plan for the long term. Like, in the middle of this war we are taking actions to ensure the minor nation that will one day be Russia likes us.
We seek vengence over memes and ignore vile slander. We build the biggest army in the world and use it to guard a bunch of trees.
Ymar is run by crazy internet spirits. We don't make sense.
The Western Wall is the north most portion of the old kingdom, settled by Ymaryn stock over thousands of years. They have a fully intact Ymaryn bureaucracy, and with the Great Khan in retreat their northern border is ripe for the taking.
Advantages:
Intact Ymaryn bureaucracy: As they chose to bent the knee to the khan, they kept the nobles alive, giving them some of the best administrators in the world
Dead Khan: Since the horde broke on the Core, the fertile fields up north are ripe for the taking
City levy: They have the trifecta of a populous city, production, and a mighty bureaucracy that is needed to call upon the famed city levy, allowing them to field a far larger force than one would expect
Disadvantages:
The Betrayed: Should the core survive their baptism by fire, it will be a matter of when, not if, they come to seek retribution one one of the causes of their near collapse
Tips
The Western wall is pretty well situated without any real issue, unless you are unlucky enough to have the core survive. The levies make taking the northern bread basket rather easy, though if you are not care you could overextend and lose the heartland, which is the core of your power. The start is pretty much smooth sailing until the Core comes knocking.
Black Sheep Empire
Fuedalism Ho! Bring the glory of Private Property to the Ymaryn! You benefit from vigorous leadership and a relatively undepleted military. However, the other successors will all rightly consider you nomad savages, and may even ally against you to their own detriment, denying you any legitimacy unless you conquer at least the old borders of the Kingdom.
Advantages:
Intact Army: One of the few successor states that has a respectable army still at their disposal, giving them a powerful force.
Best horses: They are nomads with easy access to some of the best horses in the world, which is pretty much their answer two the mass of armored crossbowmen that is favored by the other successor states.
Disadvantages:
Nomads REEEEEE: Unfortounately, being nomad occupiers means you have no friends among the other successor states, with means they will be very willing to screw you over, even at their own detriment
Nonexistent Ymaryn bureaucracy: Unfortunately, the conquest of your feifdom has left little of the famed bureaucracy which brings problems such as the inability to call on the famed City levy's that made the Ymaryn so feared.
Tips
The Black sheep, being nomads pretty much need to conquer every successor state other than the Amber Road Trading Post to end the very real risk of a few surprise city levy mucking things up, though thankfully their heartland is rather insulated from the rest of the successor states, but between the rock bottom relations with the rest and the lack of the famed bureaucracy, as while they are still really good, they simply cant match the masters. Pretty much, they are the cav expert of the factions, whom will likely need to lean on that while seeking to succeed where the Kahn did not, just hope the core doesn't get to trigger the mass levy on you, or you will be in for a bad time.
The Core
The birthplace of the Ymaryn. Where the god Bynwyn bestowed the Sacred Warding upon the People, where The First Smith stole Iron from the gods, and where the Great Khan was defeated. They have wonders beyond compare: The Sacred Warding, the Sacred Forest, industrial infrastructure respectable by the standards of the early 1800s OTL, libraries with every scrap of lore ever produced in the vicinity of the Kingdom. Yet they are urbanized to a degree unsustainable without the rest of the kingdom, if they can not secure enough food to feed the cities then they will die in a few short years. If they can survive, however, none will be able to deny they are the true successor of the Ymaryn Kingdom, because they are the Ymaryn Kingdom!
Advantages:
The Great Library: They have the largest depository of knowledge in the world, which will give a major advantage in research, once everything stops being on fire.
Ymaryn bureaucracy: While a shadow of it's former self, much of the institutional know-how is preserved, as it is only the nonexistence of personnel that gives it problems
The Guild: The Core houses the biggest iron works in the world, all manned by master smiths that produces masterwork quality in numbers that simply can't be matched any of it's neighbors.
The BUTTON: While most of the successors could pull a city levy, the Core, thanks to the urban density and it's ironworks, could field the legendary Mass Levy, which would cause even the Hung's Great hosts to seem insignificant in comparison, while being armed FAR better than most equivalent forces.
Darkest Hour: They start with two admin heroes and one martial hero, whom will prove to be vital in the time to come.
Disadvantages:
The Cities Must Be Fed!: Between the loss of every other territory and damage to the farms they are desperate for food even with the massive drop in population in the war.
Gutted Bureaucracy: The sheer amount of Nobles that died in the war meant that while it hadn't completely collapsed yet, they are very limited by their severe lack of numbers.
Health Crisis: The destruction extended to the healthcare system, leaving to disease running rampant. It is so bad, that the crisis could spread to the other successor states, or even beyond!
Tips
This is pretty the lethal joke faction. From the beginning you have to tread carefully, balance resources, and do what it takes to drag your faction out of death's door, then treading carefully to avoid undoing your progress while at the same time dragging back the unruly territories one at a time, until you either collapse or reunite the nation. But with great risk comes great reward, as their resources, wealth production, research and efficiency once restored easily will make them one of the great powers in the game, and considering that it could feasibly win a fight with both of the other big three at the same time after reincorporating all of the smaller successor states, it really shows how scary they are. They are a great choice if you want to just do away with the slow growth and just want to hop into a tense struggle with a faction that happens to be a lot more powerful that it may seem thanks to their extremely bad start.
A/N: Decided to write a hypothetical video game omake describing the big three successor states. And yes I snagged the start descriptions for the lore section of this.
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Apr 23, 2021 at 11:57 AM, finished with 81 posts and 10 votes.
[X] Plan Oshha
-[X] Authority: Establish Contact, Black Sheep Rebels: Establish formal diplomatic ties with the rebels in the Thunder Plateau. If you can absorb them diplomatically back into the kingdom, it would greatly speed the reunification timeline. (Narrative%. 1 Year. !)
-[X] Authority: Seek Loan: You are strapped for cash. Other states have money that you could use. Ask them if they would be willing to float a loan. (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
--[X] Abyss
-[X] Influence: Seek Loan: You are strapped for cash. Other states have money that you could use. Ask them if they would be willing to float a loan. (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
--[X] Ruma
--[X] Berba
-[X] Personal: Relax with Family (-Stress)
[x] Plan Close a second front
-[x] Authority: Establish Contact, Black Sheep Rebels (Narrative%. 1 Year. !)
-[x] Authority: Shift Deployment: The Mass Levy is large and unwieldy. Changing circumstances require a shift in deployment patterns. (80%, 1 year, Deployment shifted, malus to war rolls if failed)
-[x] Influence: Seek Loan: Berba (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
-[x] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Highlanders: What have the Highlanders gotten up to in these last thousand years? Do you even care so long as they stay in their hills? (???% 1 Year. Possible -Influence)
-[X] Personal: Relax with Family (-Stress)
[x] Plan Redeploy And Seek Loans
-[x] Authority: Establish Contact, Black Sheep Rebels (Narrative%. 1 Year. !)
-[x] Authority: Shift Deployment (80%, 1 year, Deployment shifted, malus to war rolls if failed)
--[x] 70k from Black Sheep (leaving them with 600k) and 15k from reserves (15k remaining), 50k to Western Wall (we'd have 320k + Banner companies, versus their 300k), 35k to Highlanders (total 65k).
-[x] Influence: Seek Loan: Berba (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
-[x] Influence: Seek Loan: Abyss (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
-[X] Personal: Relax with Family (-Stress)
[X] Plan Oshha
-[X] Authority: Establish Contact, Black Sheep Rebels: Establish formal diplomatic ties with the rebels in the Thunder Plateau. If you can absorb them diplomatically back into the kingdom, it would greatly speed the reunification timeline. (Narrative%. 1 Year. !)
-[X] Authority: Seek Loan: You are strapped for cash. Other states have money that you could use. Ask them if they would be willing to float a loan. (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
--[X] Abyss
-[X] Influence: Seek Loan: You are strapped for cash. Other states have money that you could use. Ask them if they would be willing to float a loan. (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
--[X] Ruma
--[X] Berba
-[X] Personal: Relax with Family (-Stress)
-1 Treasury, +1 Prestige
News from Western Wall:
The People continue to advance into rebel territory. It proves a slog, the enemy commanders quite skilled. But the Banner Companies prove their worth again and again.
[+1 Influence]
News from Txolla:
The Highlanders continue to flail uselessly against your cordon.
[+0 Influence]
News from Thunder Plateau:
With the rear echelon once more working correctly, Dafydd continued his advance. The mountains were steep however, and progress slow. Still, more areas continue to fall under the control of The People.
[+0 Influence]
Establish Contact, Black Sheep Rebels:
Needed: Irrelevant, Authority
1d10→8. Success.
Negotiators are sent over to see if the freedom fighters over in the Plateau would be willing to rejoin the Kingdom of the People diplomatically. They are willing to do so, as long as certain demands are met:
The Bwyll Ration be reinstated immediately.
The Sacred Warding be reestablished as soon as possible.
Land management be distributed across many people rather than concentrated in relatively few.
They get to pick who their administrators are in perpetuity.
[] Accept Terms (+5 Prestige, -1 influence, +2 influence, -.3 Income)
[] Reject Terms (-3 Influence, will need to conquer Black Sheep Rebels)
Seek Loan, Abyss
Needed: Irrelevant, Authority
Abyss is willing to float the Melkut Ymaryn a loan.
Work continues in electing and training new administrators.
[1/3+?]
Spreading the Warding, Amber Road
Needed: 26+. Rolled: 86. Success.
Their understandable fears of deliberate exposure to demons has been soothed by the priests, especially the ones they have been used to listening to for most of their lives. With the population willing, what remains is training local expertise.
[2/4]
Seek Loan, Berba and Ruma
Needed: 16+. Rolled: 90. Success.
Needed: 16+. Rolled: 66. Success.
All of Syffron is awed by the size of your armies. To have a million men marching at once, it is something they had not seen since the heyday of the Ruma Impyra. They seem to believe that the Melkut Ymaryn of old is back, and that your success is inevitable. So better to be a creditor.
[+2 Treasury, -2 Prestige, -.2 income]
Personal: Spend time with family
[-stress]
-
Rumor Mill:
Kurna no longer a Major Power: Kurna has lost enough territory to no longer be counted among the major powers of the world. In an interesting Twist, Ealam did not manage to make any territorial gains, with Kurna only losing land to a mess of minor powers.
I feel we should do this. We can afford the Income hit since we got until the end of 1620 to deal with it while the additional Influence is good. The prestige isn't pleasant, but thanks to all of the loans, it just leaves us getting +3 Prestige this turn and leaving us at 65 prestige, which is still less than what the Khem currently have.
@Aranfan If we accept these terms, how much of the Thunder Plateau will we have left to liberate?
Edit: I also assume that there will be no feudalism as part of these terms right?
The Bwyll Ration be reinstated immediately.
The Sacred Warding be reestablished as soon as possible. Land management be distributed across many people rather than concentrated in relatively few.
They get to pick who their administrators are in perpetuity.
Honestly, the land management isn't that bad; in fact, it's going to reduce the nobilities power some, though the administration bit could get messy. Hey, who knows, maybe it'll eventually lead to some more democratic reform.
It isn't feudalism. It is a step towards democratization, which is why it costs -1 influence. They would still answer to the Melek, they'd just get to elect the nobles that administer them. Instead of gentry managing large plots, they would manage smaller ones, leading to less power for the gentry over the rural poor. Being Gentry would still be a job, rather than the state of owning a farm.
Okay! Actually democracy! Fuck yeah! Screw the nobility! I am worried it'd mean potentially worse farming practices, but I think everything else should cover for that. And if/when we finally hit mechanization of labor and the Green Revolution, where individual farming becomes truly trash, they should hopefully still have more power, and can transition. That is rather far away though, so not pressing.
Edit: Maybe some kibbutzim setups, or kohlkoz types? They are pretty similar to modern corporate farms in terms of efficiency/yield
Okay! Actually democracy! Fuck yeah! Screw the nobility! I am worried it'd mean potentially worse farming practices, but I think everything else should cover for that. And if/when we finally hit mechanization of labor and the Green Revolution, where individual farming becomes truly trash, they should hopefully still have more power, and can transition. That is rather far away though, so not pressing.
Oh f**k; the 3x loans were a good call, as it turns out. 65 66 65 projected prestige at the start of next turn.
And yeah, free perpetual elective administrators thrown into the deal (well, technically the locals could decide to do away with the elections *shrug*)
All of Syffron is awed by the size of your armies. To have a million men marching at once, it is something they had not seen since the heyday of the Ruma Impyra. They seem to believe that the Melkut Ymaryn of old is back, and that your success is inevitable. So better to be a creditor.
I think next turn is a good time to redeploy, if we want any hope of simultaneous surrender from Black Sheep and Western Wall (allowing us to deal with Khemetri without distraction).
(Incidentally also prevents the possibility of looting; though it looks like that possibility has mostly gone away at the moment so not actually worried about that.)
2/3rds of the Black Sheep are reclaimed, but only a tiny portion of Western Wall.
The main reason not to redeploy is if you're confident of a two-front war with Western Wall and Khemetri (along with tanking the income effects from their partial blockade).
Right! Yes, normally small scale farming can lead to bad practices, but with the strong environmentalist culture and strong priesthood, that isn't as much of an issue, and a decently strong central government and excellent soil creation, the low yields aren't yet an issue. Far better than medieval farming, if not up to modern consolidated farms. Seriously loving it.
The rural poor are those farmhands that wander around farm to farm. They get to own steward lands for the first in many generations, yay! The gentry are all those farmers who actually owned their lands for countless generations. They are the yeomen or petty nobles.
Ironically, Thunder Plateau might become the most dynamic place in the kingdom, where the industrial revolution might start. Not sure what you can do with much smaller lands though.
