Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Made some additional edits to the chapter, DP.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Germany
Ultimately one of conquerors. Sure, it is cosmopolitan in nature, but there's a great deal of war and struggle against barbarism and The Enemy to it. Can't play with fascist tropes as much as we did without it leaving some marks in the result.
And Mace apparently wants to lead the monarchists of central Westeros, as I'm supremely dubious of the idea that he just ran his mouth out of honest concern for his fellow Lords rights and powers.
Both Mace and Paxter Redwyne have that ambition and Hightower is waiting on the sidelines to see where it is worth playing.
- Location
- Germany
About what I expected. Though I could see Paxter forming a counter-block with Asha, Theon and the Governess of the Traitorlands if that doesn't shake out for him.
Any attempts by Hightower to schmooze up to Marwyn and Qyburn to keep the Citadel vote in his corner?
He is vaguely pocking at Marwyn, though he does not have much hope of the Citadel mentaining its prestige so he is looking towards the possibility of other institutions of higher learning arcane and mundane to keep Oldtown on the map.
- Location
- Germany
Hmm, Greatjon vs Bolton.
Greatjon is likely a mid-level Barbarian like Crowfood, but younger, tougher and much stronger, more likely a damage-dealer than Mors' intimidate-build.
Bolton is an Initiator with a definite focus on damage, but more tricks up his sleeve, higher speed and some defensive options.
In a white room I'd say the outcome would be a matter of luck, with both hitting hard and the one rolling more hits and damage winning.
But in this case Bolton will have vastly better equipment and he will know how Jon fights, while Jon will propably be surprised by supernatural martial arts, so I predict a clear victor:
The Roose is loose!
Greatjon is likely a mid-level Barbarian like Crowfood, but younger, tougher and much stronger, more likely a damage-dealer than Mors' intimidate-build.
Bolton is an Initiator with a definite focus on damage, but more tricks up his sleeve, higher speed and some defensive options.
In a white room I'd say the outcome would be a matter of luck, with both hitting hard and the one rolling more hits and damage winning.
But in this case Bolton will have vastly better equipment and he will know how Jon fights, while Jon will propably be surprised by supernatural martial arts, so I predict a clear victor:
The Roose is loose!
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Greatjon is an idiot. I hope Roose puts him on his ass decisively.
Trying to prevent that sort of cultural demise is a valid goal, IMO. They cannot bar immigrants from the North, however, and Roose knows we would come down on him like a ton of Dragon-shaped bricks if he tried to organize persecution of such people. There are all sorts of methods they can use to sure up the North to prevent dilution of their culture and history. That it would bring Roose into greater prominence and establish him as a respected figure in the North and further abroad is just a happy accident.
Now that feeding their populace is no longer any real concern, encouraging Northern families to have more children is one way to go about this. Another would be incentivizing Northerners to adopt children from elsewhere in the Imperium. We sponsor orphanages all over the place, so they have a ready source of young children to indoctrinate into Northern culture.
Rather than discouraging immigration, they can instead target those they wish to move to the North, people amenable to integration rather than replacement.
A very helpful option would be to begin educating as many Northerners as possible, imparting to them the skills and knowledge necessary to serve as a merchant, entrepreneur, bureaucrat, etc. Literacy, mathematics, history, and so on, can all be taught to students so that when positions of authority and influence become available in the North, children of the North will be ready to fill them rather than someone from the South or Essos.
Roose has also already received permission to build a Scholarium branch on his lands and has been hunting around for faculty to staff it once it is ready. That's a big thing for the North, since the more Northern mages who are educated in their home region means more of them are unlikely to leave it, or are more likely to return and settle down there than if they travel thousands of miles away during their formative years for training in Sorcerer's Deep, Tyrosh, Mantarys, etc. The more mages the North produces, the more influential they will be since the Imperium distinctly favors those of a magical bent, but more importantly, more mages means more advancement for the North. Magic makes it easier to exploit resources, to grow food, defend a community against monsters, communicate with the wider world, etc. Everywhere needs them and places without them will eventually import them from elsewhere or they'll just immigrate to those places that are lacking in order to fill the available niche. Wouldn't it be better to have Old Gods worshiping mages plying their trade in the North rather than Volantene R'hllorites?
He's not trying to split off a separate kingdom or ban immigrants so the North can stay sufficiently "Northern". The North is by far the largest of the former "kingdoms" of Westeros, but it is also the least populous. It's so hilariously underpopulated that immigration to the region could easily relegate Northern culture to nothing more than easily forgotten, quaint local traditions within a generation. No one wants to see their culture and history fade from relevance and end up as little more than something for tourists to gawk at. There are countless real world examples of Roose's fears coming true. North America, for example.
Trying to prevent that sort of cultural demise is a valid goal, IMO. They cannot bar immigrants from the North, however, and Roose knows we would come down on him like a ton of Dragon-shaped bricks if he tried to organize persecution of such people. There are all sorts of methods they can use to sure up the North to prevent dilution of their culture and history. That it would bring Roose into greater prominence and establish him as a respected figure in the North and further abroad is just a happy accident.
Now that feeding their populace is no longer any real concern, encouraging Northern families to have more children is one way to go about this. Another would be incentivizing Northerners to adopt children from elsewhere in the Imperium. We sponsor orphanages all over the place, so they have a ready source of young children to indoctrinate into Northern culture.
Rather than discouraging immigration, they can instead target those they wish to move to the North, people amenable to integration rather than replacement.
A very helpful option would be to begin educating as many Northerners as possible, imparting to them the skills and knowledge necessary to serve as a merchant, entrepreneur, bureaucrat, etc. Literacy, mathematics, history, and so on, can all be taught to students so that when positions of authority and influence become available in the North, children of the North will be ready to fill them rather than someone from the South or Essos.
Roose has also already received permission to build a Scholarium branch on his lands and has been hunting around for faculty to staff it once it is ready. That's a big thing for the North, since the more Northern mages who are educated in their home region means more of them are unlikely to leave it, or are more likely to return and settle down there than if they travel thousands of miles away during their formative years for training in Sorcerer's Deep, Tyrosh, Mantarys, etc. The more mages the North produces, the more influential they will be since the Imperium distinctly favors those of a magical bent, but more importantly, more mages means more advancement for the North. Magic makes it easier to exploit resources, to grow food, defend a community against monsters, communicate with the wider world, etc. Everywhere needs them and places without them will eventually import them from elsewhere or they'll just immigrate to those places that are lacking in order to fill the available niche. Wouldn't it be better to have Old Gods worshiping mages plying their trade in the North rather than Volantene R'hllorites?
No, I completely understand why he is doing it. If it was the real world I would even be commending him. It's just that we play a tyrant dragon and I would prefer we didn't have separate subgroups that can form a core of rebellions later on.
I am perfectly willing to genocide their culture and institute something that pushes the adherence to the imperium and stuff like that.
Seconding this, @Acolyte I get what you are trying to say but that is most likely not the best way to say it. If you want a wide ranging imperial culture best to talk about how you would raise up such a thing.
- Location
- Philippines
Didn't we regenerate his ears after he swore fealty?
- Location
- Germany
By all means, vote to have Bloodraven arrange an accident for Roose. But the man has agency and he never made much of a secret out of being ambitious.
There are other people who will likewise seek to carve out their own niche in Imperial politics. Roose's way just happens to be to reclaim a heritage that was deemed offensive for the longest while, but which fits just fine into the new world order.
There are other people who will likewise seek to carve out their own niche in Imperial politics. Roose's way just happens to be to reclaim a heritage that was deemed offensive for the longest while, but which fits just fine into the new world order.
- Pronouns
- He
I mean, it's fine if Bolton wants to preserve his culture. It's not like he can make a Braavosi family migrating to the North stop being Braavosi. They'll adopt whatever they like and in exchange teach others of their own ways. With enough time and enough immigrants the Northmen culture will be wildly different from what Bolton wants anyway.
Example: the British didn't invent curry and tea. Yet they love those thing so much it became a part of their culture.
The Indians and Chinese however didn't came out of that trade too well though.
Example: the British didn't invent curry and tea. Yet they love those thing so much it became a part of their culture.
The Indians and Chinese however didn't came out of that trade too well though.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
At the end of the day, Greatjon sees dragging his feet to war as a favor to Ned, but sees forming a political bloc with Roose as the leader, who makes no bones about wanting to sideline Stark or even cut them down a couple pegs, as treasonous.
It's actually not, seeing as how Ned has already been cut down a couple pegs, and a couple more would be "losing political primacy in the North through relations-based politics and religious primacy through lacking a strong voice toward Old Gods faithful".
Which is no more or less than what Bolton suggested. Making Ned come to consult him to get his concerns about the spread of heart trees and controlling cultural exchanges between provinces is payment enough, since showing the Starks as subordinate to the Boltons in any fashion, even unofficial, is what he wants.
No one here is going to argue Ned Stark, AKA "I fostered in the Vale under Jon "Andalest of the Andals, Duty and Honor rah rah rah" Arryn, is going to be their advocate farther afield for their cultural primacy.
It's actually not, seeing as how Ned has already been cut down a couple pegs, and a couple more would be "losing political primacy in the North through relations-based politics and religious primacy through lacking a strong voice toward Old Gods faithful".
Which is no more or less than what Bolton suggested. Making Ned come to consult him to get his concerns about the spread of heart trees and controlling cultural exchanges between provinces is payment enough, since showing the Starks as subordinate to the Boltons in any fashion, even unofficial, is what he wants.
No one here is going to argue Ned Stark, AKA "I fostered in the Vale under Jon "Andalest of the Andals, Duty and Honor rah rah rah" Arryn, is going to be their advocate farther afield for their cultural primacy.
- Pronouns
- Erd
Can the lord armies be form like the national guard?
Vote closed.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
The lords don't really get to have armies, not could they afford them if they didn't. Their trained armsmen are relatively few in number, but generally all they need for most circumstances. And we have better things to do with the smallfolk than try to force them to fight in poorly equipped and undertrained peasant levies like has been common in Westerosi history up until this point.
- Location
- Germany
Like having them work in the mines and the factories that try to sate our endless hunger for explosives and other supplies for the actual military.
Mace is still waffling about foot soldiers, while this is happening in SD:
Isn't "Lords provide soldiers for their liege" a part of the basic Feudal Contract? So Mace saying he can't is basically admitting he can't fulfill one of the basic obligations he has as a Lord. Of course a lot of his fellow lords are in the same situation so there's no doubt he'd get some sympathy from them, but the fact stands that this is very much his problem and there's no reason why his liege should move unilaterally to fix it for him.
If anything, it seems like this should be an opening for us to get something out of him, since he's openly defaulting on his obligations.
If anything, it seems like this should be an opening for us to get something out of him, since he's openly defaulting on his obligations.
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Update in beta.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
This is a pragmatic "dawning of a new age" kinda thing, so twist of the tongue can be done to easily redefine the feudal contract. If Viserys is saying "you're on your own if you want to raise troops, specifically because I have my hands full making a standing army to do the jobs ostensibly an ordinary King would have needed your help to have a hope of accomplishing", then they might argue "it's impossible to match you with only my own resources, so why waste time providing you troops?"
Of course, Viserys would be fine with this, and it would just be more excuse to expand the army and military-adjacent industries even more than we already have.
A far-sighted noble might think "trying to assert my power and influence through military force is pointless and a waste of time anyway, so I'll just focus on leveraging finance and economic power instead" and they would get further. People saying "we need to be able to match the Crown in force projection, and the Crown should help us make that happen" is basically saying "we like being able to bully you by combining into power blocs and threatening to rebel against you", which has never been politically kosher thing to say, it's just what happens organically when any state isn't centralized enough and has autonomous vassals.
This is... pretty obvious, and the ones used to being able to force sea changes in politics through overthrowing the ruler they don't like aren't happy about it, and that is unlikely to change.
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