His big drawback is more that he is, when you are close enough to him to feel his presence, pretty obviously the kind of book you call the Inquisition on.
Worst case we delegate an Inquisitor at his side.
Near a Marshal he'd propably have always some work to do, but the main point would be to assure people that the eldritch book has our approval for floating around.


[X] Neda bint Hashim Khademnejad (Daughter of Hashim, of House Khadem)
[X] Netzachel (Gods Victory)
[X] Thirro (the survivor), the Shaven Khal

[X] Archmaester Benedict

Three with magic/mundane experience, one with proven skill at learning new things, should minimize the issues with our new form of warfare.
Unfortunatly two with little practical experience, but we can hopefully give them good subordinates.
You know what they say about military, as long as the guy above you and the guy below you know what they do, you wont screw up if you just do your job.
 
Is he controversial due to pointing out how we made old tactics completely obsolete, and rather than eschewing from plainly point out each way we did so, he instead presented many scenarios where if the old guard tried the same stuff they have for centuries, they'd get rolled over?

Sounds about right, and no wonder it's controversial to have the support of the blunt Beryl and many officers in the Legion. They'd be doing the rolling.
He made the suggestion that magic, either directly or through the use of magical powered war machines and creatures, would soon decide wars, which would also make the Westerosi nobility obsolet in their role as providers of levies and military elites.

Some people did not like that.
 
Mind you that Theorist doesn't mean they can't actually lead an army, just that they have zero practical experience. So Netzachel might make genuine rookie mistakes on his first deployment, simply due to that lack of experience.

His big drawback is more that he is, when you are close enough to him to feel his presence, pretty obviously the kind of book you call the Inquisition on.
mind you as minister of war his job won't be to lead military campaigns that is a job for the marshals on the ground , no his job would be stuff like implementing new tech ,magic , tactics and intelligence to deal with all the new magical enemies that the imperium's armies will be facing for the first time , pushing for R&D projects to to give the army the advantage they need to come out in top against what ever their going to fight and carrying out reforms to the armed forces as the situation calls for it . all things his skill set is perfect for
 
mind you as minister of war his job won't be to lead military campaigns that is a job for the marshals on the ground , no his job would be stuff like implementing new tech ,magic , tactics and intelligence to deal with all the new magical enemies that the imperium's armies will be facing for the first time , pushing for R&D projects to to give the army the advantage they need to come out in top against what ever their going to fight and carrying out reforms to the armed forces as the situation calls for it . all things his skill set is perfect for
This vote is for the Marshalls. Tarly became Minister of War.
 
[X] Ser Benjicot Brown
[X] Neda bint Hashim Khademnejad (Daughter of Hashim, of House Khadem)
[X] General Vaerios Ghad
[X] General Hazhak mo Zhoa
 
[X] Ser Benjicot Brown
[X] General Vaerios Ghad
[X] General Hazhak mo Zhoa
[X] Archmaester Benedict
 
Last edited:
[X] Neda bint Hashim Khademnejad (Daughter of Hashim, of House Khadem)
[X] Netzachel (God's Victory)
[X] General Vaerios Ghad
[X] Archmaester Benedict
 
Just to be sure, I like Benji and I'd like to offer him a General's posting, but as far as I understand the Marshal's are supposed to work on a scale beyond even a full Legion, leading entire campaigns and realising policy-decisions from the Ministery of War.

We don't really need a skilled guerilla fighter and experienced small-unit tactician in that position.
 
Just to be sure, I like Benji and I'd like to offer him a General's posting, but as far as I understand the Marshal's are supposed to work on a scale beyond even a full Legion, leading entire campaigns and realising policy-decisions from the Ministery of War.

We don't really need a skilled guerilla fighter and experienced small-unit tactician in that position.
The policy decisions come solely from Viserys. The Ministry manages the supply-chain, training, construction and so on. But yeah, that's roughly the scope of the post.

Benjicot would indeed be way out of his depth and the question is if he can grow to fill the position.
 
I think it would be better to make him a Legion General, at best, right now, since growing to fill that post puts less of a strain on our armed forces overall.

Alternatively, there's always leading a future division of Praetorians if we ever raise units besides the Palace Guard, which seems incredibly likely.
 
Just to be sure here, @DragonParadox, and apparently @Azel, unless otherwise mentioned on the Pros/Cons of each person, we're not putting people with dubious loyalties in charge of tens of thousands of our own soldiers, are we?

They are at least of a baseline loyalty we expect from someone with vested stakes in the Imperium succeeding, which while that may not include "Glory to Viserys" it doesn't necessarily even have to since we rigged things to end up in that direction anyway, in ways that no single person can yank a pillar or switch a fulcrum around to prevent with their own position alone.

Because if they turn up in divination as "willing to sell out the Imperium for the right price, they just haven't found a bidder capable of matching it yet", they should never have reached our desk. Period.
 
Last edited:
Since DP saw no issue with it and discussion is pretty slow, I'd rather give my two cents. Contrary to what some might believe, I did not design these people to have only good options. A few of them really suck for various reasons.

First and foremost, to prevent the Westerosi from bitching, there should be at least one of the three candidates from the west among the chosen.
[] Donnel Waynwood
+ Renowned Knight (He is well known as a devout and respectable knight, so his appointment would greatly please many Westerosi nobles and attract knightly recruits to the Legions)
+ Mountain Fighter (Has experience in leading small units in difficult terrain, which would translate decently well to fighting on the Plane of Earth)
+ Beloved Leader (Has a knack for making his soldiers feel that he genuinely cares for their well-being and thus inspires much loyalty from them)
- Behind the Times (Has no experience in magical warfare)
- Dubious Loyalty (His house only swore to the Imperium at gunpoint)
He is a whole lot of political browny points, but as an actual Marshall, he is a turd. Dubious loyalty and a complete lack of applicable experience makes him worthless.

Hard pass from me.
[] Ser Benjicot Brown
+ Years of Experience (Has been leading the Lads for years and has plenty more experience as a soldier in previous campaigns)
+ Guerilla Leader (Skilled in asymmetric warfare)
+ Very Loyal
- Small Unit Leader (Has no experience leading whole armies, let alone multiple)
- Stench of Banditry (especially among Riverlanders, he is seen as little more than a brigand)
Benjicot makes a great Colonel and maybe a decent General, but the post of Marshall is way beyond him. At the same time, his reputation is tarnished by having acted "dishonorably", so there's no real political benefit to appointing him. At most, he would be seen as a consolidation prize by many. At worst, just another sign of blatant favoritism due to him being chosen in spite of vastly more qualified people being available.

This post is beyond him, so no dice.
[] Archmaester Benedict
+ Quick Learner (Easily picks up new knowledge and strategies)
+ Political Acumen (Has studied the politics surrounding war as much as the actual warfare and has much experience navigating the fickle politics of the Citadel)
+ Westerosi Approval (While a Maester leading an army would be odd to many, lords are used to their advice on the matters of war, making him a strange but acceptable choice)
- Theorist (Has not actually led a campaign so far)
- Grudgekeeper (Is known to nurse personal grudges with some dedication with the most notable ones being held against Marwyn and Qyburn)
What's hilarious to me about Benedict is how he went from "that guy spewing baseless, semi-treasonous nonsense" to "one of the finest minds and a true visionary of Westerosi scholarship" in the span of one night. Being proven right has funny effects like that.

As a candidate, he is middling as an actual commander due to being a Theorist, which is offset by Quick Leaner. However, unlike most other candidates, he is politically skilled and can represent the military well in the Curia. His grudge against Marwyn and Qyburn is unfortunate, but they should not have that many points of contact, so it's manageable. He might form additional grudges later on, especially in the Curia, but that's a bridge to burn when we come to it.

So, he is in.


Let's go for the high-value candidates next:
[] Neda bint Hashim Khademnejad (Daughter of Hashim, of House Khadem)
+ Born For War (has been trained for military service from a young age and served for decades in the Peerless Empires armies)
+ Inner Planes Warfare (Versed in the tactics and strategies of the Inner Planes and to some degree those of other planar forces such as the Illithid and Baator)
+- Ambitious
- Foreign Loyalties (While not part of the high nobility of the Shaitan, her family are still influential, which makes some claim her to be disloyal)
- Questioned Honor (Her joining of the Legion caused a minor scandal in the Peerless Empire and further promotion might spark controversy)
Her foreign entanglements are definitely a problem and she already ditched one army due to her ambitious nature, so she might walk right back to the Shaitan with a head full of military secrets if the Sultana makes a good enough offer. Bad. At least they are allied with us, but still bad.

Clear No from me.
[] Netzachel (God's Victory)
+ Unmatched Knowledge (Has knowledge of warfare that is rivaling that of even the greatest generals of the planes)
+ Trickster (Can surprise even the best prepared foe)
- Aura of Taint (Being filled with fiendish and even some aberrant knowledge gave him an aura akin to a fiend, though all investigations have shown his mind untouched)
- Theorist (Has not actually led a campaign so far)
He will need some experience in low-stakes deployments, but overall, he is gold. Biggest problem is that he will need some explaining to the people closely interacting with him, like Curia members, but at least he looks good on Mirror Vision.

Strong yes.
[] Broken Roots
+ Hivemind (By using Necrotic Molds as intermediates, Broken Roots could instantaneously communicate with all nearby forces under his command)
+ Elder Lore (Having the knowledge of dozens of warlords from the Age of Heroes and access to the Green Dream makes it well versed in warfare)
+- Unambitious (Cares not for personal glory)
- Alien (Baring Softstrider and Bloodraven, no one in the Curia or High Command would truly comprehend its nature)
- Hatred: Others (It's hatred to the Others is overwhelming and might color it's decision-making)
One the one hand, they are pretty nice by having both vast knowledge and unique communication advantages. However, they are also... a bit hard to handle for most others. There's also the distinct risk of erratic behaviour due to it being a cobbled together pseudo-mind made from the remnants of some pretty nasty people. Age of Heroes warlords are not exactly well adjusted people. Just consider how many of them drank Weirwood sap for breakfast.

No from me.


The odd one out is:
[] Ryos Lodaris
+ Underwater Combatant (Has extensive experience in underwater warfare, including multiple skirmishes with the Illithid)
+ Planar Connections (He knows many mercenaries and minor politicians on the Plane of Water, which would greatly aid him when deployed there)
- Murky Loyalty (While very loyal to Braavos, he only cares about the Imperium in so far as that it is the realm that his home city now belongs to)
- Whisper of Favoritism (He is a distant cousin of the reigning Sealord by matrilinear descent, which is objectively barely a connection at all, but as far as those wary of Braavosi influence on the Imperium are concerned, he might as well be his trueborn son)
Who doesn't fit neatly in other categories. He is, on paper, pretty worthless since the Legion is simply not capable of conducting underwater warfare right now. The airforce can, but not our foot sloggers. However, he is also capable of fixing that. With his contacts, he could hire enough mercenaries and aquire equipment to get us going towards a fully amphibious Legion or two. So he is a investment that might pay off nicely, or be squandered if we just use them like any one of the others.

Yes from me. He can help to plug a hole in our armies.



That leaves us with Legion officers.
[] General Hazhak mo Zhoa
+ Skilled Commander (He has trained and served with the Lockstep Legions of New Ghis and has shown himself a capable field commander in the Legion)
+ Exemplary Service (He is serving with a dedication and focus that knows few equals)
+ Logistical Skill (He is one of the designers of the Legions supply chain and knows it like the back of his hand)
- Stained Reputation (The suspicion of being an Unsullied trainer hangs over him and it is unlikely that these rumors will cease)
- Discipline Issues (While most soldiers accept his command, there tend to always be a few who rankle at his presence, no matter how little it is felt, leading to occasional but public misconduct)
He is pretty much the perfect leader, but the discipline issues and reputation will be a constant source of problems. Ultimately, I think we have too many better candidates for him to make the cut.

No from me.
[] General Vaerios Ghad
+ Experienced Legion Commander (Has led Legions into battle and is well acquainted with the Imperial military)
+ Inspiring Leader (Always manages to motivate his troops to give the utmost)
+ Loyal Unto Death
- Fanatic: R'hllor (Is known for leading a rather outspoken prayer group and mixing religious themes into his speeches)
Not a great choice, but a solid one. Promoting someone with his explicit flaw is pretty much inevitable at some point and after everything that happened in Westeros and in the Ymeri campaign, we might as well bite the bullet and do it now instead of dragging this further out.

Yes from me.
[] Thirro (the survivor), the Shaven Khal
+ Mobility Focus (Knows the advantages of moving faster than your enemies and is experienced in leading quick and decisive raids)
+ Combined Arms Tactics (Learned in the Volantene army to skillfully blend traditional warfare with magical support)
- Barbarous (The only diplomacy he knows is by strength of arms and others see in him no more than a skilled savage)
- Prejudice: Undead (Has a great hatred for the Undead)
His positive traits are fantastic and he would be a shoe-in for leading a fully mechanized force of Praetori to go to town on someone, but a Marshall also has political duties and oh boy would be a fuck-up in that. His policies would be less hawkish and more "feast on their heart"-ish. He's better suited to staying on the battlefield and the hell away from high offices.

Nope.
[] Red Ant
+ Disciplined (Holds himself to high standards and runs a tight command)
+ Loyal
+ Renowned (Has some degree of fame in the Legion and will spark enthusiasm among his soldiers)
- Heavy Prejudice: Ghiscari (Carries a grudge over his past as an Unsullied, but mostly confined to the Ghiscari)
- No Quarter (Is known to show little mercy on the battlefield and expects none in return)
He's another candidate with solid, though not awe inspiring advantages. No Quarter sounds bad on paper, but that's mostly a matter of whom to deploy him against. Sending him to subdue, say, Norvos, would create plenty of bad optics. But when he fights Baator? The Others? Literal Deamons? Taking prisoners is not exactly a realistic scenario in these fights anyway, so that disadvantage evaporates. The Ghiscari prejudice is more difficult, since he might have to work with one of them in the future. Like Hazhak ma Zhao. That could end up ugly, so he might need some management there, but overall he looks good to me.

Needs some polish, but sold.


Final vote:
[X] Archmaester Benedict
[X] Netzachel (God's Victory)
[X] Ryos Lodaris
[X] General Vaerios Ghad
[X] Red Ant


Tentatively also:
[X] General Hazhak mo Zhoa
Since in retrospect, if I'm willing to invest some effort into mitigating Red Ant's issue with the Ghiscari, then I'm also willing to invest the effort to clear Hazhaks name. He deserves it.
 
[X] Archmaester Benedict
[X] Netzachel (God's Victory)
[X] General Vaerios Ghad
[X] General Hazhak mo Zhoa


I'm convinced.
 
Last edited:
Just to be sure here, @DragonParadox, and apparently @Azel, unless otherwise mentioned on the Pros/Cons of each person, we're not putting people with dubious loyalties in charge of tens of thousands of our own soldiers, are we?

They are at least of a baseline loyalty we expect from someone with vested stakes in the Imperium succeeding, which while that may not include "Glory to Viserys" it doesn't necessarily even have to since we rigged things to end up in that direction anyway, in ways that no single person can yank a pillar or switch a fulcrum around to prevent with their own position alone.

Because if they turn up in divination as "willing to sell out the Imperium for the right price, they just haven't found a bidder capable of matching it yet", they should never have reached our desk. Period.
Ultimately, that's for DP to decide, but as for how I designed them? They all passed muster by the Inquisition, so both Bloodraven and Garin think they are kosher, baring the issues noted down explicitly.
 
Ultimately, that's for DP to decide, but as for how I designed them? They all passed muster by the Inquisition, so both Bloodraven and Garin think they are kosher, baring the issues noted down explicitly.
Ryo Lodaris being utilized to secure the recruits for multiple fully aquatic Legions sounds great in theory, and that's one reason for me to support it, since I fully expect us to need to have the ability to cover a lot of ground--or water as the case may be--and less trouble creating units capable of keeping up with some of the best the Illithid sport via artifice and fleshcraft.

But how would we utilize those units? I'd say probably as specialists. The problem of the sea is that every major population center is connected to it either by being near the coast or by having a river that leads to it, so we can secure the rivers to prevent massive amounts of chaff from doing aggregate "death by a thousand cuts" but cities, many of which are by the sea, are at risk unless we come up with broad sweeping changes to how we defend them. The way I see it, that can be done from a combination of two things.

1) Build population centers further inland. We are moving toward this by handing out city charters to areas that are deeper into the continent. It's sensible, and while they're not impossible for Deep Ones to attack, it's much more of a logistical challenge, which makes it undesirable.

2) Rapid reaction forces for people out of urban areas. The illithid would have some units that could operate on land, and they would generally be things that regular soldiers can't deal with anyway. So this is the area where our super-elites or hero units would be called upon to deal with it.

But the question is, should I back that vote if we're choosing to build specialist forces now? I suppose we are about to have to deal with the repercussions of our truce ending with them sooner rather than later, if we can utilize specialists against them for the above mentioned purposes then we probably should. There's also always the chance that we need to secure large area which is mostly underwater, and that happening much more slowly with only servitor units. Like if we wanted to, for whatever reason, colonize part of the Plane of Water, possibly for research purposes, possibly for economic ones.
 
Ryo Lodaris being utilized to secure the recruits for multiple fully aquatic Legions sounds great in theory, and that's one reason for me to support it, since I fully expect us to need to have the ability to cover a lot of ground--or water as the case may be--and less trouble creating units capable of keeping up with some of the best the Illithid sport via artifice and fleshcraft.

But how would we utilize those units? I'd say probably as specialists. The problem of the sea is that every major population center is connected to it either by being near the coast or by having a river that leads to it, so we can secure the rivers to prevent massive amounts of chaff from doing aggregate "death by a thousand cuts" but cities, many of which are by the sea, are at risk unless we come up with broad sweeping changes to how we defend them. The way I see it, that can be done from a combination of two things.

1) Build population centers further inland. We are moving toward this by handing out city charters to areas that are deeper into the continent. It's sensible, and while they're not impossible for Deep Ones to attack, it's much more of a logistical challenge, which makes it undesirable.

2) Rapid reaction forces for people out of urban areas. The illithid would have some units that could operate on land, and they would generally be things that regular soldiers can't deal with anyway. So this is the area where our super-elites or hero units would be called upon to deal with it.

But the question is, should I back that vote if we're choosing to build specialist forces now? I suppose we are about to have to deal with the repercussions of our truce ending with them sooner rather than later, if we can utilize specialists against them for the above mentioned purposes then we probably should. There's also always the chance that we need to secure large area which is mostly underwater, and that happening much more slowly with only servitor units. Like if we wanted to, for whatever reason, colonize part of the Plane of Water, possibly for research purposes, possibly for economic ones.
I mean, Ryos Lodaris is pretty much a long-shot right now, so it's unlikely to even matter.

But the advantage of approval voting is that I can vote for the 6 people I think would be good, without having to consider if Ryos is a better or worse option than Red Ant.
 
Back
Top