Once you've got an Arcane Mark or the Divine equivalent, you're locked in to that form of magic.
Try it and find out.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Once you've got an Arcane Mark or the Divine equivalent, you're locked in to that form of magic.
Try it and find out.
If we ever do write a book on Dhar, I think it should be simply just called Dhar.
Short, direct and gets the point across.
Or we could go for the punny name. Either works.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
There is WoG that Mathilde trying to channel lore of Ranald would quickly lead to insanity as her dual mindset would tear her soul asunder.
As for writing the great book of fucking Dhar over, we could try to compile it, never release it, and send it to whoever is at the head of colleges via our Last Will and Testament in case we die.
Last edited:
Initial preferences.
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
How independent the Colleges are from each other depends a great deal on your perspective. There can be a lot of value in bridging those gaps.
- Tempting. Very tempting. Short term it likely helps with getting all those College precursor secrets. Long term that research branch will benefit.
[ ] DIPLO: Dawri
You've lived along Dwarves for long enough that your Wizard robes and Arcane Marks are often the only things preventing you from being mistaken for one. But you could immerse yourself even deeper in Dwarven culture and become able to navigate it like a native.
- I… honestly feel this would be a waste. Being able to hide amongst Dawi isn't of meaningful use. Simply being 'more Dawi than the Dawi' wouldn't get us the juicy secrets we crave. Our 'Reputation: Yes' already gives us more than cultural assimilation ever could.
[ ] DIPLO: Draconic Fascination
You've only really spent time with two Dragons, but both have been thoroughly fascinating individuals.
- Much as I would love to take this, dragons just aren't numerous enough to justify it.
[ ] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
Ranald isn't the most accepted of Gods, but you're growing adept at finding common ground with the other faiths of the Old World.
- Could be useful. However it moves us in a direction I don't particularly like.
[ ] DIPLO: Knight
You bear the title of Knight, and you've worked alongside Knightly Orders multiple times now.
- With the best will in the world, they are just meat shields. Knightly orders might be high quality meat shields but there are plenty of other options available.
[X] DIPLO: Mentor
Though you've never taken an Apprentice of your own, you have spent quite a bit of time taking less-experienced Wizards under your wing.
- Good in the long term but little immediate benefit. Unless it directly translates to explaining knowledge gained from one wizard (or mage or runesmith) to someone else.
[ ] DIPLO: Polyglot
If you had been unable to use Khazalid as a bridging language, there were many encounters that could have gone quite badly. There's a great deal of potential benefits to further expanding your linguistic lexicon.
- Nope. We already have the vast majority of useful languages. Had we gone to Swamp Town it might have been an option. As we didn't this would be an outright waste of a trait.
[ ] DIPLO: Trucemaker
Sometimes the best battle is one you never fight. Every life not spent fighting lesser evils can be turned against the greater ones.
- Seems like it would have been critically useful for the Roving Troubleshooter jobs but we are trying for much longer term arrangements than truces.
[ ] LESSON: Cartographer
Being able to explore, record, and subsequently navigate unfriendly territory is an incredibly useful and often underrated skill.
- Useful. Overshadowed but useful.
[ ] LESSON: Dhar Insight
You've seen Daemons, the Chaos Wastes, the Windfall. You're reaching as thorough an understanding of the fel energies of Dark Magic as can be attained without actually wielding them.
- …it isn't a trap in the sense that there is hidden danger. It is just an open invitation for self-harm.
[X] LESSON: Leader
Despite not seeking it, once more you found yourself in military command. Perhaps this tendency is something to be embraced.
- Useful. And increasingly a role Mathilde plays simply by weight of reputation and authority.
[ ] LESSON: Light Fingers
It's not theft, it's espionage. The enemies of the Empire and the Karaz Ankor have all sorts of interesting and portable items that would do a lot of good in friendly hands, from supplies to devices to paperwork.
- Eh, looting is the least important of Mathilde's activities.
[X] LESSON: Logistician
Warriors win battles, logistics wins wars. Being able to get what you need to where you need it is halfway to victory.
- Exceedingly useful.
[ ] LESSON: Mystic
Some mysteries should be embraced, rather than unravelled. You might not fully understand the Gods this way, but you are much more likely to get along with Them.
- Nope. The secrets of the universe are there to be solved, not merely admired.
[ ] LESSON: Poker Face
Acting like you always know what's going on has gone from a source of personal amusement to a vital diplomatic first line of defence.
- …not sure how this could manifest or what it could give us mechanically. Not keen. Not keen at all.
[ ] LESSON: Syncretic
Ranald will likely always be your primary God, but you are branching out into a healthy and respectful understanding of some of the other Gods of the Old World, both human and Dwarven.
- Could be useful, particularly if combined with Interfaith Dialogue. But not a direction I want to go in.
[X] LESSON: Theologian
You have a breadth of experience with the Divine that would put many Priests to shame, and are starting to build tentative overarching theories of the Divine that many might consider heretical.
- Yes. We shall steal the secret of [insert knowledge] from the gods.
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
How independent the Colleges are from each other depends a great deal on your perspective. There can be a lot of value in bridging those gaps.
- Tempting. Very tempting. Short term it likely helps with getting all those College precursor secrets. Long term that research branch will benefit.
[ ] DIPLO: Dawri
You've lived along Dwarves for long enough that your Wizard robes and Arcane Marks are often the only things preventing you from being mistaken for one. But you could immerse yourself even deeper in Dwarven culture and become able to navigate it like a native.
- I… honestly feel this would be a waste. Being able to hide amongst Dawi isn't of meaningful use. Simply being 'more Dawi than the Dawi' wouldn't get us the juicy secrets we crave. Our 'Reputation: Yes' already gives us more than cultural assimilation ever could.
[ ] DIPLO: Draconic Fascination
You've only really spent time with two Dragons, but both have been thoroughly fascinating individuals.
- Much as I would love to take this, dragons just aren't numerous enough to justify it.
[ ] DIPLO: Interfaith Dialogue
Ranald isn't the most accepted of Gods, but you're growing adept at finding common ground with the other faiths of the Old World.
- Could be useful. However it moves us in a direction I don't particularly like.
[ ] DIPLO: Knight
You bear the title of Knight, and you've worked alongside Knightly Orders multiple times now.
- With the best will in the world, they are just meat shields. Knightly orders might be high quality meat shields but there are plenty of other options available.
[X] DIPLO: Mentor
Though you've never taken an Apprentice of your own, you have spent quite a bit of time taking less-experienced Wizards under your wing.
- Good in the long term but little immediate benefit. Unless it directly translates to explaining knowledge gained from one wizard (or mage or runesmith) to someone else.
[ ] DIPLO: Polyglot
If you had been unable to use Khazalid as a bridging language, there were many encounters that could have gone quite badly. There's a great deal of potential benefits to further expanding your linguistic lexicon.
- Nope. We already have the vast majority of useful languages. Had we gone to Swamp Town it might have been an option. As we didn't this would be an outright waste of a trait.
[ ] DIPLO: Trucemaker
Sometimes the best battle is one you never fight. Every life not spent fighting lesser evils can be turned against the greater ones.
- Seems like it would have been critically useful for the Roving Troubleshooter jobs but we are trying for much longer term arrangements than truces.
[ ] LESSON: Cartographer
Being able to explore, record, and subsequently navigate unfriendly territory is an incredibly useful and often underrated skill.
- Useful. Overshadowed but useful.
[ ] LESSON: Dhar Insight
You've seen Daemons, the Chaos Wastes, the Windfall. You're reaching as thorough an understanding of the fel energies of Dark Magic as can be attained without actually wielding them.
- …it isn't a trap in the sense that there is hidden danger. It is just an open invitation for self-harm.
[X] LESSON: Leader
Despite not seeking it, once more you found yourself in military command. Perhaps this tendency is something to be embraced.
- Useful. And increasingly a role Mathilde plays simply by weight of reputation and authority.
[ ] LESSON: Light Fingers
It's not theft, it's espionage. The enemies of the Empire and the Karaz Ankor have all sorts of interesting and portable items that would do a lot of good in friendly hands, from supplies to devices to paperwork.
- Eh, looting is the least important of Mathilde's activities.
[X] LESSON: Logistician
Warriors win battles, logistics wins wars. Being able to get what you need to where you need it is halfway to victory.
- Exceedingly useful.
[ ] LESSON: Mystic
Some mysteries should be embraced, rather than unravelled. You might not fully understand the Gods this way, but you are much more likely to get along with Them.
- Nope. The secrets of the universe are there to be solved, not merely admired.
[ ] LESSON: Poker Face
Acting like you always know what's going on has gone from a source of personal amusement to a vital diplomatic first line of defence.
- …not sure how this could manifest or what it could give us mechanically. Not keen. Not keen at all.
[ ] LESSON: Syncretic
Ranald will likely always be your primary God, but you are branching out into a healthy and respectful understanding of some of the other Gods of the Old World, both human and Dwarven.
- Could be useful, particularly if combined with Interfaith Dialogue. But not a direction I want to go in.
[X] LESSON: Theologian
You have a breadth of experience with the Divine that would put many Priests to shame, and are starting to build tentative overarching theories of the Divine that many might consider heretical.
- Yes. We shall steal the secret of [insert knowledge] from the gods.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Huh. That's extremely interesting. Does that include Chaos mutations?
That's evil and you should feel evil.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
This is something that makes sense for Mathilde to develop with her promotion and experiences. It's also something that is likely to pay off strongly with the Project. We're basing with the elves, we've got an insane number of favors to call in with the dwarves- it's the human wizards where we have the most need for new angles of leverage.
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
And as others point out, this is something rare with a lot of potential among the forces of Order.
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
Though I also rather like
[X] LESSON: Leader
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
And as others point out, this is something rare with a lot of potential among the forces of Order.
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
Though I also rather like
[X] LESSON: Leader
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Arcane Khazalid, Anoqeyen, High Nehekaran. There's a lot more out there to learn so I think you're drastically underestimating how useful polyglot will be, and each of those opens our library to large increases in effect.
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] DIPLO: Mentor
I feel Dhar Insight is valuable because:
-Clogged Waystones often form Dhar.
--Very often, once the Dhar reaches critical mass it is no longer safe to unclog it. The K8P waystone turning on and simply melting the Warpstone buildup shouldn't be possible, but it happened. This is a frequent and important problem.
-The main risk of Windherding is Dhar formation. If you cannot rule out the risk of Dhar formation, then you need an exit strategy that is not "pray hard".
--Conversely, the primary SOURCE of Windherding inspiration uses Dhar. If you know how Dhar behaves and you know how the Wind manipulating it behaves, you can derive interaction rules that can be cross applied for non-Dhar Wind interactions.
-It is likely, though not certain, that the incorrect intersection of different magic paradigms or borked rituals may produce Dhar. Mathilde is shielded by her belt. Other participants are not so lucky and I feel just leaping into a miscast and hoping the belt works out is not very wise, nor would miscast induced manpower losses be conducive to the project's success when cooperation is so sparse.
-It is also very convenient for fucking up Dhar using spellcasters. And Daemons. And Warpstone based enchantments or technology.
-There is really no safe way to ensure it shows up in a trait pick. Horrible miscasts, playing with warpstone, magically probing the Chaos Wastes, etc are not things you should expect to do without consequence.
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] DIPLO: Mentor
I feel Dhar Insight is valuable because:
-Clogged Waystones often form Dhar.
--Very often, once the Dhar reaches critical mass it is no longer safe to unclog it. The K8P waystone turning on and simply melting the Warpstone buildup shouldn't be possible, but it happened. This is a frequent and important problem.
-The main risk of Windherding is Dhar formation. If you cannot rule out the risk of Dhar formation, then you need an exit strategy that is not "pray hard".
--Conversely, the primary SOURCE of Windherding inspiration uses Dhar. If you know how Dhar behaves and you know how the Wind manipulating it behaves, you can derive interaction rules that can be cross applied for non-Dhar Wind interactions.
-It is likely, though not certain, that the incorrect intersection of different magic paradigms or borked rituals may produce Dhar. Mathilde is shielded by her belt. Other participants are not so lucky and I feel just leaping into a miscast and hoping the belt works out is not very wise, nor would miscast induced manpower losses be conducive to the project's success when cooperation is so sparse.
-It is also very convenient for fucking up Dhar using spellcasters. And Daemons. And Warpstone based enchantments or technology.
-There is really no safe way to ensure it shows up in a trait pick. Horrible miscasts, playing with warpstone, magically probing the Chaos Wastes, etc are not things you should expect to do without consequence.
No. Arcane and Divine Marks are a unique form of mutation, caused by someone's soul being partly transmuted into the form of energy that is being channelled through it. Part of Mathilde's soul is made of Ulgu instead of whatever it is souls are normally made out of. That means if she tries to channel anything but Ulgu through it, Dhar is guaranteed and miscast is extremely likely.
Last edited:
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Polyglot may also play into a deeper understanding of languages we know, so that we don't need to word for word relay potentially intensely secret conversations in order to draw needed insight and conclusions. See Belegar with the Borek Dialogues.
[x] DIPLO: Dawri
[x] DIPLO: Polyglot
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[x] LESSON: Leader
[x] DIPLO: Dawri
[x] DIPLO: Polyglot
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[x] LESSON: Leader
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
We will be herding Elves and Dwarves very shortly. Even if the nations involved are neutral in theory, I think this will come in handy.
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
No really good reason for this, I just enjoy Mathilde the totally not a dark Wizard, crushing the miscast and telling Algernon his offer was weak were some of my alltime favourite moments in the Quest.
Oh and understanding dhar might be useful when trying to make something to actually purify places.
We will be herding Elves and Dwarves very shortly. Even if the nations involved are neutral in theory, I think this will come in handy.
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
No really good reason for this, I just enjoy Mathilde the totally not a dark Wizard, crushing the miscast and telling Algernon his offer was weak were some of my alltime favourite moments in the Quest.
Oh and understanding dhar might be useful when trying to make something to actually purify places.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Why do you think people become QMs?That's evil and you should feel evil.
Dang, it's going to take me a while to get used to Boney's new avatar. I keep thinking "Who is this new guy, and why does he know so much about the quest?"
I have no particularly strong opinions on this subject. That said, these are some of the ones I think are good both in and out of character.
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
Sometimes the best battle is one you never fight. Every life not spent fighting lesser evils can be turned against the greater ones.
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
How independent the Colleges are from each other depends a great deal on your perspective. There can be a lot of value in bridging those gaps.
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
If you had been unable to use Khazalid as a bridging language, there were many encounters that could have gone quite badly. There's a great deal of potential benefits to further expanding your linguistic lexicon.
[X] LESSON: Logistician
Warriors win battles, logistics wins wars. Being able to get what you need to where you need it is halfway to victory.
[X] LESSON: Theologian
You have a breadth of experience with the Divine that would put many Priests to shame, and are starting to build tentative overarching theories of the Divine that many might consider heretical.
Have a fondness for Draconic Fascination, though.
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
Sometimes the best battle is one you never fight. Every life not spent fighting lesser evils can be turned against the greater ones.
[X] DIPLO: Collegiate
How independent the Colleges are from each other depends a great deal on your perspective. There can be a lot of value in bridging those gaps.
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
If you had been unable to use Khazalid as a bridging language, there were many encounters that could have gone quite badly. There's a great deal of potential benefits to further expanding your linguistic lexicon.
[X] LESSON: Logistician
Warriors win battles, logistics wins wars. Being able to get what you need to where you need it is halfway to victory.
[X] LESSON: Theologian
You have a breadth of experience with the Divine that would put many Priests to shame, and are starting to build tentative overarching theories of the Divine that many might consider heretical.
Have a fondness for Draconic Fascination, though.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
We're about to gain access to an ancient magic library in many different languages. Polyglot is a clear winner for this reason.
We gain additional bonuses to actions for having books from differenr cultures. The bonuses from gaining access to books of other languages probably outweighs the bonuses of every other trait here. Polyglot is a clear winner for this reason.
Given that both of these are true, I'm genuinely unsure as to how there's even a contest.
[x] DIPLO: Polyglot
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
We gain additional bonuses to actions for having books from differenr cultures. The bonuses from gaining access to books of other languages probably outweighs the bonuses of every other trait here. Polyglot is a clear winner for this reason.
Given that both of these are true, I'm genuinely unsure as to how there's even a contest.
[x] DIPLO: Polyglot
[x] LESSON: Dhar Insight
- Location
- France
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[X] LESSON: Theologian
[X] DIPLO: Trucemaker
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[X] LESSON: Theologian
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
As a Lady Magister of the Grey College, and a follower of Ranald, I believe it is our ethical, moral, and religious obligation to choose this:
[ ] LESSON: Poker Face
Acting like you always know what's going on has gone from a source of personal amusement to a vital diplomatic first line of defence.
[ ] LESSON: Poker Face
Acting like you always know what's going on has gone from a source of personal amusement to a vital diplomatic first line of defence.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Even more interesting. I wonder if Qhaysh users can dual-wield?
Last question then: does this mean that if, say, a Sigmarite tried to Smite an orc at the same time as we were Throttling them, Dhar would be created?
High Mages take no marks so they can cast anything
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
For me, it's mainly because we can still learn languages, even without it. Sure, it's harder, but still manageable. I'm personally interested in getting more unique and directly applicable advantages and narrative weight.