I don't think it's related to culture at all. The two big questions are "are people acting short-sighted / are unknowing of the effects" and "are the people making decisions impacted by the negative consequences".

The tragedy comes to pass when people either don't know any better, in which case the usage will adapt to either halt the degradation or even to reverse it, or if the people who profit from the damage being done have no reason to care about the damages, such as how a US company CEO has no reason to care about Brazilian rainforest being burned to graze cattle on the land.
Eh, it was literally to us in one of my early anthropology courses when we were learning about maladaptive cultures.

I can't claim to be an authority on it, though, or even provide good examples. The memories aren't fresh enough.
 
Eh, it was literally to us in one of my early anthropology courses when we were learning about maladaptive cultures.

I can't claim to be an authority on it, though, or even provide good examples. The memories aren't fresh enough.
Fair enough when we talk about full on maladaptive cultures. I just don't think any normal, functional culture would experience the TotC.
 
Last edited:
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 2, 2021 at 11:41 AM, finished with 37 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Plan With Little Power Comes Great Responsibility
    -[X] There are truths that he needs to know to truly grasp the true nature and goals of the Imperium. The true weight of the ideas that it rests upon. Tell him the story of the Fall of Heaven and the state of the spheres.
    -[X] Let him also read The Fading Grace to reinforce his understanding.
    -[X] The Imperium is a bulwark against all of these threats. Against the grasping hands of Baator, the nihilism of Abaddon, the madness of the Abyss, the taint of the Far Realm and the hunger of true oblivion itself. In this day and age, even the gods can not truly ensure the safety of their followers souls, let alone aid them in life. This is why you have created the Imperium, with all it's institutions and it ever greater grasp. To succeed where the gods have failed. To create a safe harbor in the wasteland of this world.
    -[X] You have often spoken of light in your speeches and that you would bring it to the people to banish the darkness. That was the truth. What he now knows, unlike nearly all the other citizens, is that the light you kindle here and now is the only one there is. Nobody else is coming to save the day.
    -[X] What he has shown by grasping for the power created by you and these ideas is that he is worthy and capable of handling these truths. Capable of carrying these ideas out into the world to strengthen the walls against the enemies and to prepare the people for the day when the whole truth must be revealed to them. One day, they all will know and if they all believe that the Imperium can keep them safe anyway, then nothing ill will happen on that day.
    -[X] Your task for him and all the others that will come is to find like-minded people and help them to develop the convictions and belief necessary to access the same power he now wields. You do not expect them to fight or die for you, but to speak. To carry these ideas to others. Some will take up arms to fight the darkness. Others will build with their power. Yet others will heal. They all will do their part in their own fashion.
    -[X] You know that this is much to ask of a young man such as him, but you would not burden him with this if you were not certain that he could carry it. And as others join him, the load will become lighter until the day it is but a feather.
    -[X] As you do not know if his special circumstances expose him to certain dangers, and to ensure Yss is not annoyed at you, give him a small Imperial Steel brooch of a Three Headed Dragon as a sign of his status. Within will be a small shard of Thinaun, marked with a Mark of Greed, so that you can ensure his soul is safe in case of death.
 
Yeah, they are a problem, but more in the sense of "dangerous wildlife" than any organized effort. The Abyss is operating on Crab Mentality after all, so any "organized" effort to claim parts of Elysium doesn't last very long.

So you mostly have disjointed wilderness with the occasional trade outpost of other planar empires. A bit like Africa used to be before the mid 19th century.
Generally speaking I got the impression that Demonlords can at least excert enough control to keep their actions dangerous, ergo preventing major infighting before any victories are won.
They don't get to enjoy said victories, because everything scatters on success, but they have to get at least that far, or else demons would always have been considered a cosmic joke, not a force that Heaven and Hell oppose with serious power.

The Mantarys-Arc is a reasonable example of this, the forces kept together and working with a modicum of efficiency, only betraying each other when an outside-force (us) allowed for it.
They could never have profited from their victory, as the portal would have collapsed shortly after going fully open and the demons would have scattered through half the world and caused wanton chaos wherever they wish.
But they could have achieved that first victory and severly harmed everything around them in doing so.
 
Generally speaking I got the impression that Demonlords can at least excert enough control to keep their actions dangerous, ergo preventing major infighting before any victories are won.
They don't get to enjoy said victories, because everything scatters on success, but they have to get at least that far, or else demons would always have been considered a cosmic joke, not a force that Heaven and Hell oppose with serious power.

The Mantarys-Arc is a reasonable example of this, the forces kept together and working with a modicum of efficiency, only betraying each other when an outside-force (us) allowed for it.
They could never have profited from their victory, as the portal would have collapsed shortly after going fully open and the demons would have scattered through half the world and caused wanton chaos wherever they wish.
But they could have achieved that first victory and severly harmed everything around them in doing so.
That's what I mean though. They come in, wreck something and then scatter for one reason or another. They can't maintain outposts or exert control, since the moment they claim anything larger than an outhouse, more demons will come to check out what's going on there and it immediately goes downhill for everyone involved.

The only reliable victories they can claim is plundering or destroying things.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 2, 2021 at 11:41 AM, finished with 37 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Plan With Little Power Comes Great Responsibility
    -[X] There are truths that he needs to know to truly grasp the true nature and goals of the Imperium. The true weight of the ideas that it rests upon. Tell him the story of the Fall of Heaven and the state of the spheres.
    -[X] Let him also read The Fading Grace to reinforce his understanding.
    -[X] The Imperium is a bulwark against all of these threats. Against the grasping hands of Baator, the nihilism of Abaddon, the madness of the Abyss, the taint of the Far Realm and the hunger of true oblivion itself. In this day and age, even the gods can not truly ensure the safety of their followers souls, let alone aid them in life. This is why you have created the Imperium, with all it's institutions and it ever greater grasp. To succeed where the gods have failed. To create a safe harbor in the wasteland of this world.
    -[X] You have often spoken of light in your speeches and that you would bring it to the people to banish the darkness. That was the truth. What he now knows, unlike nearly all the other citizens, is that the light you kindle here and now is the only one there is. Nobody else is coming to save the day.
    -[X] What he has shown by grasping for the power created by you and these ideas is that he is worthy and capable of handling these truths. Capable of carrying these ideas out into the world to strengthen the walls against the enemies and to prepare the people for the day when the whole truth must be revealed to them. One day, they all will know and if they all believe that the Imperium can keep them safe anyway, then nothing ill will happen on that day.
    -[X] Your task for him and all the others that will come is to find like-minded people and help them to develop the convictions and belief necessary to access the same power he now wields. You do not expect them to fight or die for you, but to speak. To carry these ideas to others. Some will take up arms to fight the darkness. Others will build with their power. Yet others will heal. They all will do their part in their own fashion.
    -[X] You know that this is much to ask of a young man such as him, but you would not burden him with this if you were not certain that he could carry it. And as others join him, the load will become lighter until the day it is but a feather.
    -[X] As you do not know if his special circumstances expose him to certain dangers, and to ensure Yss is not annoyed at you, give him a small Imperial Steel brooch of a Three Headed Dragon as a sign of his status. Within will be a small shard of Thinaun, marked with a Mark of Greed, so that you can ensure his soul is safe in case of death.
 
Part MMMDCCXLI: A Torch in Secret Kindled
A Torch in Secret Kindled

Fourth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

For a long while yet you look upon the boy and consider your next words with care, for a boy he is indeed. His life had not been an easy one and the teachings of the Scholarum had prepared him for labors of the mind, for the seeking of lore. Yet for what you are bout to impart upon him there can be no true preparedness. You were not prepared in the fullness of your power when you beheld the sundered skies above what had once been the mountain of Heaven, and through ink and parchment shall not from the spirit ask as much as seeing the horror of it in the flesh it shall weigh on him all the more so.

Should you wait for the next one to call, a part of you wonders, but you dismiss the voice almost at once, now or later young Marco shall know the truth and if it is to be later than he will know you did not trust him with it and he will likely be displeased, not without cause. Still, hesitant he might be in some small things, he is here, he is attentive and he is by his own words and will yours to command and so command him you shall.

From the gilded depths of your cloak you withdraw a certain book that no mortal hand has written, the Fading Grace. "When we are done her you may read this book, but you must do so in this chamber and under guard of the Preatori. I do not trust it out of well warded chambers for the tale it tells is as dreadful as it is true."

The boy nods this time without hesitation. A command places him on firmer ground it seems. Thus in your own words you tell the tale of the Sundering and the state of the planes, carefully and without haste, answering all his questions and they are many. Better by far than simple shocked silence, better than fear and denial.

"So you see, the Imperium is a bulwark against all of these threats. Against the grasping hands of Baator, the nihilism of Abaddon, the madness of the Abyss, the taint of the Far Realm and the hunger of true oblivion itself. In this day and age, even the gods can not without fail ensure the safety of their followers souls, let alone aid them in life. This is why we have created the Imperium, with all it's institutions and it ever greater grasp. To succeed where the gods have failed. To create a safe harbor in the wasteland of this world."

This time he does not answer, no questions and no nod of understanding. "Does it sound arrogant, presumptuous perhaps?" You offer as much of a smile as you can manage after discussing such grim matters. "Then let me tell you another secret, it is only arrogance if you fail, and if this fails why any of us care what it should be called as the flame of history gutters out to black oblivion?"

"A man wearing his noose fears battle less?" The question comes like a sigh of breath kept in. You had not heard that saying before, you assume it is native to the Deep from the days before your coming, but you can guess it's meaning well enough

You nod as you offer him a cup of strong Myrish Tea, by far the best drink for talks such as this you have found for it sharpens the mind and does not dull it as wines and liquors do. "I have often spoken openly before many of the light that must be borne froth to aid those who linger in darkness, in fear and ignorance and strife. That was the truth. What you now know that few others do is that the light we all kindle here and now is the only one there is. Nobody else is coming to save us this time and only hollow skies stretch above."

"That's, uhm..." He looks paler than he did a moment ago, shaken to the core, more by being included in the 'we' than any words you had spoken before. One thing to know the world is broken, another to be told you have to help fix it. Time to explain the why of that then.

"What you have shown by grasping the power I have wrought and which these ideals give shape to is that you are worthy and capable of handling these truths. Capable of carrying these ideas out into the world to strengthen the walls against the enemies and to prepare the people for the day when the whole truth must be revealed to them. One day, they all shall know and if they all believe that the Imperium can keep them safe anyway, then nothing ill will happen on that day." You pause a long moment and in a tone willfully wry you add. "I hope that you can take my word on this."

At that Marco snaps to attention like a legionary caught slouching at his post. "Of course, Your Majesty." Not quite what you had been hoping for, but it will do.

"What I need of you and those who shall follow in your footsteps is to find like-minded people and help them to develop the convictions and belief necessary to access the same power you now wields. I do not expect them to fight or die for me and for the Imperium, but to speak. To carry these ideas to others. Some will take up arms to fight the darkness. Others will build with their power. Yet others will heal. They all will do their part in their own fashion. Will you do this for me and for the realm?"

"I already swore an oath to you and to the realm by the constitution, Your Majesty," the boy replies gravely, recovering his composure. "This seems to me an extension of that oath and nothing less. The circumstances have changed and I hope that my powers and I shall be able to bear this charge, but nothing of my convictions is different from when I walked into this room."

"Good," you smile. "I know that this is no small thing to ask of one so young, but rest assured that the load will grow less with every new pair of hands to carry it until one day it might be light as a feather."

"Feathers are... feathers are a bit too light for my liking, Your Majesty. Why, I might float away with naught but a feather on my shoulders and then where would I be?"

You let out a surprised laugh. Mayhap he is at least a bit like you were at his age. In parting you give him a small talisman of Soul Steel in the shape of the three-headed dragon and inscribed with the Mark of Greed so that it should keep his soul safe. A patchwork sort of solution, but for now the best you can manage.

What next?

[] Speak to the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch about sending an envoy to the Curia

[] Rat Clearing (interlude)

[] Write in


OOC: Some very respectable will saves rolled from the kid even given that Viserys was the best at presenting this as his own skilled allowed.
 
Last edited:
[X] Rat clearing (interlude)

I want to see the munchkin brigade clearing out rats!
 
On the subject of playing as another PC in ASWAH universe, it would be cool to play as a Rhoynish water mage in Princess Nymeria's army fighting against the Valyrians and the following migration to Dorne. Would be a fun AU!

Edit: Also, good job Marcus! Turns out we won't need the mind healers after all.
 
Last edited:
I think it's time...

[X] Begin expansion of the army.
-[X] Swimming lessons, mass production of talismans of water breathing and underwater combat.
-[X] All spy network to undergo Psionic Training.
-[X] The war for this world to exterminate the Deep Ones will begin in earnest. This time, we attack!
 
A Torch in Secret Kindled

Fourth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

For a long while yet you look upon the boy and consider your next words with care, for a boy he is indeed. His life had not been an easy one, and the teachings of the Scholarum had prepared him for labors of the mind, for the seeking of lore. Yet for what you are about to impart upon him, there can be no true preparedness. You were not prepared even in the fullness of your power when you beheld the sundered skies above what had once been the mountain of Heaven, and though ink and parchment shall not from the spirit ask as much as seeing the horror of it in the flesh, it shall weigh on him all the more so.

Should you wait for the next one to call, a part of you wonders, but you dismiss the voice almost at once. Now or later, young Marco shall know the truth and if it is to be later then he will know you did not trust him with it and he will likely be displeased, not without cause. Still, hesitant as he might be in some small things, he is here, he is attentive, and he is by his own words and will yours to command and so command him you shall.

From the gilded depths of your cloak you withdraw a certain book that no mortal hand has written, the Fading Grace. "When we are done here you may read this book, but you must do so in this chamber and under guard of the Praetori. I do not trust it out of well-warded chambers for the tale it tells is as dreadful as it is true."

The boy nods, this time without hesitation. A command places him on firmer ground, it seems. Thus in your own words you tell the tale of the Sundering and the state of the planes, carefully and without haste answering all his questions, and they are many. Better by far than simple shocked silence, better than fear and denial.

"So you see, the Imperium is a bulwark against all of these threats. Against the grasping hands of Baator, the nihilism of Abaddon, the madness of the Abyss, the taint of the Far Realm, and the hunger of true oblivion itself. In this day and age, even the gods cannot without fail ensure the safety of their followers' souls, let alone aid them in life. This is why I have created the Imperium, with all it's institutions and its ever greater grasp. To succeed where the gods have failed. To create a safe harbor in the wasteland of this world."

This time he has no questions and no nod of understanding. "Does it sound arrogant, perhaps presumptuous?" You offer as much of a smile as you can manage after discussing such grim matters. "Then let me tell you another secret. It is only arrogance if you fail, and if we fails in this, what care will any of us have as the flame of history gutters out to black oblivion?"

"A man wearing his noose fears battle less?" The question comes like a sigh of breath kept in. You had not heard that saying before, you assume it is native to the Deep from the days before your coming, but you can guess it's meaning well enough.

You nod as you offer him a cup of strong Myrish Tea, by far the best drink for talks such as this, you have found, for it sharpens the mind and does not dull it as wines and liquors do. "I have often spoken openly before many of the light that must be borne forth to aid those who linger in darkness, in fear and ignorance and strife. That was the truth. What you now know that few others do is that the light we all kindle here and now is the only one there is. Nobody else is coming to save us this time and only hollow skies stretch above."

"That's, uhm..." He looks paler than he did a moment ago, shaken to the core, more by being included in the 'we' than any words you had spoken before. One thing to know the world is broken, another to be told you have to help fix it. Time to explain the why of that then.

"What you have shown by grasping the power I have wrought and which these ideals give shape to is that you are worthy and capable of handling these truths. Capable of carrying these ideas out into the world to strengthen the walls against the enemies and to prepare the people for the day when the whole truth must be revealed to them. One day, they all shall know and if they all believe that the Imperium can keep them safe anyway, then nothing ill will happen on that day. " You pause a long moment and in a tone willfully wry, you add. "I hope that you can take my word on this."

At that Marco, snaps to attention like a legionary caught slouching at his post. "Of course, Your Majesty." Not quite what you had been hoping for, but it will do.

"What I need of you and those who shall follow in your footsteps is to find like-minded people and help them to develop the convictions and belief necessary to access the same power you now wield. I do not expect them to fight or die for me and for the Imperium, but to speak. To carry these ideas to others. Some will take up arms to fight the darkness. Others will build with their power. Yet others will heal. They all will do their part in their own fashion. Will you do this for me and for the realm?"

"I already swore an oath to you and to the realm by the constitution, Your Majesty," the boy replies gravely, recovering his composure. "This seems to me an extension of that oath and nothing less. The circumstances have changed, and I hope that my powers have changed and I shall be able to bear this charge, but nothing of my convictions is different from when I walked in this room."

"Good," you smile. "I know that this is no small thing to ask of one so young, but rest assured that the load will grow less with every new pair of hands to carry it, until one day it might be light as a feather."

"Feathers are... feather are a bit too light for my liking, Your Majesty. Why, I might float away with naught but a feather on my shoulders and then where would I be?"

You let out a surprised laugh. Mayhap he is at least a bit like you were at his age. In parting, you give him a small talisman of Soul Steel in the shape of the three headed dragon and inscribed with the Mark of Greed that it should keep his soul safe. A patchwork sort of solution, but for now the best you can manage.

What next?

[] Speak to the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch about sending an envoy to the Curia

[] Rat clearing (interlude)

[] Write in


OOC: Some very respectable will saves rolled from the kid even given that Viserys was the best at presenting this his own skilled allowed. Not yet edited.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
[X] Speak to the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch about sending an envoy to the Curia

Politics for the politics god! Contracts for his throne!
 
On the subject of playing as another PC in ASWAH universe, it would be cool to play as a Rhoynish water mage in Princess Nymeria's army fighting against the Valyrians and the following migration to Dorne. Would be a fun AU!
I'm super hyped about playing during the War for the Dawn, actually. Or as one of the minions of the Fourteen during the leadup to the collapse of Draconic rule.

@Goldfish: The tragedy of the commons is one of those thing that a genius theoretician completely made up (IIRC it's based on theoretical extrapolation), despite it being disproved by the previous millennia of communal land-use in most European farming villages. But the tragedy of the commons neatly fit into the ideology of the era (and justified the Enclosure movement + the increasing power of capital over what were previously common goods, allowing the rich to get richer and the poor to get fucked) and so it was accepted.
Eventually Elinor Ostrom got a Nobel Prize for showing it was mostly bullshit, and these days it's something they teach us in university and we all laugh at economists. Meanwhile in Econ 101 I was still taught the tragedy of the commons as if it was accepted fact, despite Elinor Ostrom being an established part of the curriculum in both my Masters' degrees. Sometimes ideology is hard to get rid of...
 
Shitty people making bupkis up in order to justify shitting all over the outgroups which they exploit for the benefit of their ingroup?

Is cynicism even a real philosophy anymore if it's mostly just what we're dealing with?
 
Back
Top