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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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fictionfan said:
Everyone should have a Dantian. This is inbuilt into the human condition even mortal that have never cultivated have one.
  1. It therefor follows that the first realm is mostly the same for all method we have seen. Fill Dantian.
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This is untrue.
yrsillar said:
Travel west, beyond the bloodthirsty jungles, and you will find a land of a thousand princes, who claim descent from a single god with a thousand faces, of which the Red Jungle is merely one. They know nothing of meridians or dantians, and instead invest their understanding in seven chakras, spiritual organs with only the most passing similarity to the three dantians.
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Adhoc vote count started by Juli Freixi on Feb 23, 2021 at 8:10 PM, finished with 80 posts and 33 votes.
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I would assume that the differences between cultivation terminology in the Empire, Khem and Khusan are due to differences in methodology rather than in the actual anatomy involved. In the same way that IRL Europe traditionally recognizes five senses, but people from other cultures might combine taste/smell into a single sense, or treat temperature sensation as distinct from touch. All of the parts are still there, it's just a matter of which ones get emphasized as central given a particular cultivation technique.
 
The phenomenon of Shen means that the laws of nature are regional. The existence of dantians and meridians in the Empire may very well because of some cultivator or spirit deciding they ought to exist and then ascending to the heavens.
 
Grek said:
I would assume that the differences between cultivation terminology in the Empire, Khem and Khusan are due to differences in methodology rather than in the actual anatomy involved. In the same way that IRL Europe traditionally recognizes five senses, but people from other cultures might combine taste/smell into a single sense, or treat temperature sensation as distinct from touch. All of the parts are still there, it's just a matter of which ones get emphasized as central given a particular cultivation technique.
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Again, this is untrue. Demonstrably so. Here is another quote.
yrsillar said:
The world is a mutable, and cultivation is no different. Conservative thinkers, those promoted by the court in the Celestial Peaks posit that foreign cultivation is merely a debased form, operating under the same principals but through lesser means.

This is patently untrue, though if one has never left their perfumed halls it may be compelling.
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To me it is very clear that different cultivators are operating under very different systems. The world is changeable, and humans no less changeable. As the dragons defined cultivation in the Imperial region of the world, so to does it make sense that others would define cultivation wherever they lived. Giants and winter spirits for example seem to have a great influence in how the Nation of the Polar Gates operate.
 
Juli Freixi said:
Sorry but what is "Shen"?
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Alright! So shen is the next level Qi. It is produced by the middle dantians in the imperial system and is used to manipulate things at a better level. Here is a piece about Shen.

yrsillar said:
No, where I find myself in disagreement is their theories on the middle dantian and shen energy. As I have heard it, the leading position is that Shen is an energy wholly derived from potent cultivators and spirit beasts, through which their will is imprinted upon the world, which is composed of lesser energy, qi. This is why those conflict between those of the fourth realm and above so easily alter or scar their surroundings, Shen is a semi divine energy, existing above the base mortal world, the first step toward wielding the power of the great spirits. This is why it allows us to escape the shackles of the world and fly, or alter the workings of the systems around is in ways beyond the brute force of the third realm.

This is wrong. Shen exists in the world around us, not merely as a side effect of potent spirits, but as another fundamental aspect of the material world. All forms of material and energy are qi, when broken down to their fundamental state, but my time under Guru Abhinavagupta, a man of great renown in the west, I have come to understand this. Men, beasts and spirits change the world by exerting their will, their shen upon it, this is true, but the world changes itself. We are not not as separate from material cycles as many would like to think. Shen is the energy of laws and reactions. When you strike flint to make fire, this is a miniscule application of shen. The patterns of winds which derive the weather is an application of shen. Not the winds and rains themselves of course, but the fundamental logic which drives them.

This is the source of it's potency and power when used in mortal hands. It overrides qi because qi operates as it does thanks to the laws and reactions imposed upon it by Shen. Now you may argue, is what I just described not the provenance of the third dantian? Sovereignty, Law, Truth; whatever you wish to call it?

I would answer that it is, and that imagining those things to be a third source of energy rather than a refinement of Shen is the greatest failing of Imperial Qi Theory. Of course, the truth is that it is really just a difference of power at that point. If it is said that a fourth realm wields Law as a mortal would a sharp rock, then it may be said that an Eight Realm wields it as a shaped cudgel. It is only ascension that allows true mastery. It is only our pride and insistence on supremacy which deludes us otherwise.
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Of course this is an in universe writing about Shen, so some salt should be taken with it, but it is where most of what the thread knows about Shen comes from.
 
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Neshuakadal said:
Again, this is untrue. Demonstrably so. Here is another quote.

To me it is very clear that different cultivators are operating under very different systems. The world is changeable, and humans no less changeable. As the dragons defined cultivation in the Imperial region of the world, so to does it make sense that others would define cultivation wherever they lived. Giants and winter spirits for example seem to have a great influence in how the Nation of the Polar Gates operate.
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While they are working off of different systems, we know for a fact that it's not completely regional, some sort of spiritual reality exists beyond the local consensus. After all, Ling Qi was able to go to a land with a different system and both her powers and her means of gaining more power kept working just fine despite her being well below the level of Shen use.

What we don't know is how human spiritual biology works preawakening, it could be they have one spiritual organ that can be developed in different ways, it could be there are a bunch of spiritual organs of various types and which gets emphasized varies, it could be that there are no inherent spiritual organs at birth but growing up somewhere causes rudimentary ones to develop, it could be that the first steps of cultivation actually involves creating those organs instead of discovering them.
 
Pretty simple for me. Hanyi wants to speak already and it would go against Ling Qi's forming way to force family or friends away even temporarily.

[X] Let Hanyi speak her mind, she is technically the one receiving an offer.
 
Saidoro said:
While they are working off of different systems, we know for a fact that it's not completely regional, some sort of spiritual reality exists beyond the local consensus. After all, Ling Qi was able to go to a land with a different system and both her powers and her means of gaining more power kept working just fine despite her being well below the level of Shen use.

What we don't know is how human spiritual biology works preawakening, it could be they have one spiritual organ that can be developed in different ways, it could be there are a bunch of spiritual organs of various types and which gets emphasized varies, it could be that there are no inherent spiritual organs at birth but growing up somewhere causes rudimentary ones to develop, it could be that the first steps of cultivation actually involves creating those organs instead of discovering them.
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You're right about their being a reality that exists beyond local consensus. The interlude I keep quoting mentions it. That reality is Qi and Shen. Anything beyond those two building blocks, I suspect, is created by local consensus.
 
Neshuakadal said:
Again, this is untrue. Demonstrably so. Here is another quote.

To me it is very clear that different cultivators are operating under very different systems. The world is changeable, and humans no less changeable. As the dragons defined cultivation in the Imperial region of the world, so to does it make sense that others would define cultivation wherever they lived. Giants and winter spirits for example seem to have a great influence in how the Nation of the Polar Gates operate.
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You might not be entirely right there.

Three of them are roughly analogous to our dantians, but there are seven in total, and all seven are cultivated from the beginning rather than opening at different realms. I have found attempting their methods quite useless, but I do wonder if a cultivator not so far along the path would have different results. However, I was able to make some of their simple techniques function with some modification.

I found techniques which focused upon the lower chakras less difficult. I am told my root chakra is quite well developed indeed! Or at least so the ladies of court have said, though I must admit they have certainly taught me a thing or two! The people of the west do not disdain the sexual aspect of life near as much as our countrymen. It is quite refreshing in more ways than one.
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While the world is fundamentally changeable, this passage from the second part written from the 'King of Explorers' perspective, the presence of the same realms across at least 3 different cultivation systems, and the way that the Sun and their vassals have combined imperial cultivation with the chakra system of the west seems to point to there still being some shared fundamentals.
 
veekie said:
She looked for a dantian, but did she find one or FORM one?
Imperial Dantians are based on spirit beast cores because Imperial cultivation emulates Dragon cultivation. And for the matter, Imperial founding clans are all spirit beast hybrids.
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If it was formed on the spot it would not be old.
 
[X] Let Hanyi speak her mind, she is technically the one receiving an offer.

This is an easy one given our advanced insight. She wants to speak, and it's the next 6 months of her life that are being discussed, so she should most definitely get a say. And given their reverence for spirits, they're also more likely to take a no, or a not right now, from her better than from Ling Qi.
 
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