RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

Sir_Travelsalot · Feb 12, 2021

Fayhem said:
*foot
AKA, "Step on me Evermommy." I'm not sorry.

Nah, he's already got a mommy for that purpose.

Fayhem · Feb 12, 2021

Sir_Travelsalot said:
Nah, he's already got a mommy for that purpose.

You fool! Dual-wielding is the most famous art of the Dark Elves! One fetish at a time is for humans.

SoHowAreYou · Feb 12, 2021

Hey everyone, since people are proposing long term plans, I thought I'd try my hand at it.

Turn 39 (Now)	Turn 40	Turn 41	Turn 42	Turn 43	Turn 44	Turn 45	Turn 46	Turn 47
Basket	Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Learn Eltherain	Akazit	Akazit	The Rune Metal Pt. 5	Wardstones
Basket	Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Learn Eltherain	Akazit	Akazit	The Rune Metal Pt. 5	Wardstones
Basket	Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Learn Eltherain	Akazit	Akazit	The Rune Metal Pt. 5	Wardstones
Basket	Maidens	Defense in Depths	Grave Wardens	Once more with Smelting/ Chains for a Dragon	Once more with Smelting/ Chains for a Dragon	Odd Places 10/10	Lion Autopsy	???
Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Conclave	Grave Wardens	Odd Place 9/10	Once more with Smelting/ Chains for a Dragon	Movement of Things	Lion Autopsy	???

Movement of Things is there so that we can subsequently finish it in only 3 actions.
Once More With Smelting or Chains for a Dragon can be taken here depending on what people want.
Defense in Depths will be complete on Turn 41 which I think is a good balance between doing it soon but also respecting previous plans.

Here's a version where we do the axe commision.

Turn 39 (Now)	Turn 40	Turn 41	Turn 42	Turn 43	Turn 44	Turn 45	Turn 46	Turn 47
Basket	Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Learn Eltherain	Akazit	Akazit	Az-Dreugi Pt.2	The Rune Metal Pt. 5
Basket	Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Learn Eltherain	Akazit	Akazit	Az-Dreugi Pt.2	The Rune Metal Pt. 5
Basket	Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Learn Eltherain	Akazit	Akazit	Az-Dreugi Pt.2	The Rune Metal Pt. 5
Basket	Maidens	Defense in Depths	Grave Wardens	Once more with Smelting/ Chains for a Dragon	Once more with Smelting/ Chains for a Dragon	Odd Places 10/10	Az-Dreugi Pt.2	Lion Autopsy
Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Conclave	Grave Wardens	Odd Place 9/10	Once more with Smelting/ Chains for a Dragon	Az-Dreugi Pt. 1	Az-Dreugi Pt.2	Lion Autopsy

This one's more a hypothetical version but knowing the thread I would expect it to do something silly like going all-in on Az-Dreugi part 2, which considering this is a quest about making cool stuff is something that I approve of.
Once More With Smelting or Chains for a Dragon can be taken here depending on what people want.
Defense in Depths will be complete on Turn 41 which I think is a good balance between doing it soon but also respecting previous plans.

Jreengus · Feb 12, 2021

I don't think we should ever do Chains for a Dragon, we don't need the favour gain and it feels horrendously inefficient to spend actions making a single chain forger to be shared in one hold when we could spend those actions part researching part 3b which will make the tools much simpler so every hold get easy access to chain. I also think we should rush out the last two odd materials ASAP once we finish these requests in order to upgrade our odd trait.

SoHowAreYou · Feb 12, 2021

Jreengus said:
I don't think we should ever do Chains for a Dragon, we don't need the favour gain and it feels horrendously inefficient to spend actions making a single chain forger to be shared in one hold when we could spend those actions getting part researching part 3b which will make the tools much simpler so every hold get easy access to chain. I also think we should rush out the last two odd materials ASAP once we finish these requests in order to upgrade our odd trait.

I mostly agree with all of this, and honestly past turn 42 I don't think it's really worth it to plan out stuff like this, because something else will probably come up which will demand our attention.

Dark as Silver · Feb 12, 2021

Baskets got a pretty good lead, but I believe in finishing contracts ahead of time.

When people are speculating that the fact we've invented Gromril Chain is a lie, now seems like a good time to start building that E3 hype for the official announcement.

[x] Preemptive Appeasement
- [x] (Simple] Armoured Maidens: [Cost: (12 -6) =6 actions] 4 Actions
- [x] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action]
-- [x] Elderly Expertise: Gain 40 Favour +? With Stormpeak. 1 Retainer Action
- [x] [Simple] Defence. In. The. Depths: [Cost: 6 actions]
-- [x] Expedite: [Cost 15 Favours with Kraka Drakk] Gain 1 progress. 60 Favours
-- [x] Retainer Expertise: [Cost 1 retainer action] Gain 1 progress. 1 Retainer Action

Fayhem · Feb 12, 2021

Jreengus said:
I don't think we should ever do Chains for a Dragon, we don't need the favour gain and it feels horrendously inefficient to spend actions making a single chain forger to be shared in one hold when we could spend those actions getting part researching part 3b which will make the tools much simpler so every hold get easy access to chain. I also think we should rush out the last two odd materials ASAP once we finish these requests in order to upgrade our odd trait.

Agreed, though "easy access" is probably still overstating it somewhat. Making it possible without a Runesmith would expand availability a lot to be sure, but even setting aside that not everywhere has Kraka Drakk's plentiful supply of gromril to work with IIRC Snorri did say that he expected even that expansion to only be practical for very well set-up Master Smiths. But I do disagree a little on 3b, it could be worth doing eventually but I'd rather upgrade our Odd trait right away and hope to proc free research from mats research a few times first instead of rushing straight into it.

LaggPlaguedDuke · Feb 12, 2021

Fayhem said:
Agreed, though "easy access" is probably still overstating it somewhat. Making it possible without a Runesmith would expand availability a lot to be sure, but even setting aside that not everywhere has Kraka Drakk's plentiful supply of gromril to work with IIRC Snorri did say that he expected even that expansion to only be practical for very well set-up Master Smiths. But I do disagree a little on 3b, it could be worth doing eventually but I'd rather upgrade our Odd trait right away and hope to proc free research from mats research a few times first instead of rushing straight into it.

Chain is actually just two turns away from completing. Just need to put 5/4 actions into it. We'll probably do MPurification and rune metal first and those two will proc a couple points into it so it could easily be down to like 4/3 by the time we get to it. Straight up could have been done in time for the conclave if we didn't take the Gazul commission I think.

Jreengus · Feb 12, 2021

Fayhem said:
Agreed, though "easy access" is probably still overstating it somewhat. Making it possible without a Runesmith would expand availability a lot to be sure, but even setting aside that not everywhere has Kraka Drakk's plentiful supply of gromril to work with IIRC Snorri did say that he expected even that expansion to only be practical for very well set-up Master Smiths. But I do disagree a little on 3b, it could be worth doing eventually but I'd rather upgrade our Odd trait right away and hope to proc free research from mats research a few times first instead of rushing straight into it.

I understood it as the current Chainforger will be out of the price range of any but the richest master smiths but the goal for 3b is to get the runes simple enough that any master smith worth the title should be able to afford it. That said I'm not advocating for 3b to be done right now just saying that if we want to spend actions on something chain related I'd much rather they go into 3b.

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Chain is actually just two turns away from completing. Just need to put 5/4 actions into it. We'll probably do MPurification and rune metal first and those two will proc a couple points into it so it could easily be down to like 4/3 by the time we get to it. Straight up could have been done in time for the conclave if we didn't take the Gazul commission I think.

I wish we'd known that in advance as if we had I would've only voted for 1 commission because showing up with the even simpler version of the chain runes would have been a hilarious level of dunking.

BungieONI · Feb 12, 2021

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Chain is actually just two turns away from completing. Just need to put 5/4 actions into it. We'll probably do MPurification and rune metal first and those two will proc a couple points into it so it could easily be down to like 4/3 by the time we get to it. Straight up could have been done in time for the conclave if we didn't take the Gazul commission I think.

*has a brief think* Yeah, or very close.

LaggPlaguedDuke · Feb 12, 2021

Jreengus said:
I understood it as the current Chainforger will be out of the price range of any but the richest master smiths but the goal for 3b is to get the runes simple enough that any master smith worth the title should be able to afford it. That said I'm not advocating for 3b to be done right now just saying that if we want to spend actions on something chain related I'd much rather they go into 3b.

I wish we'd known that in advance as if we had I would've only voted for 1 commission because showing up with the even simpler version of the chain runes would have been a hilarious level of dunking.

Something for the next conclave. Be hilarious to show up with the simpler chain method, t5 rune metal, and alchemy as the major accomplishments between conclaves.

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Something for the next conclave. Be hilarious to show up with the simpler chain method, t5 rune metal, and alchemy as the major accomplishments between conclaves.

T5 runs metal seems like it'll be a ridiculously long action chain unless it skips some of the T4 steps and doesn't have its costs scale up as much as they did for T4.

Knowing that I doubt we'd be able to finish all three in time for the next conclave because right now it's 30 years to finish everything we know about alchemy, 20 years to finish rune metal 3B and from what I can estimate 70 years to finish T5 rune metal.

I'd respond to the eighty year plan posted earlier and not just this but I'm on mobile right now so that'll have to wait a bit.

bird yells · Feb 12, 2021

*comically huge dog ears perk up* did someone say purification?

LaggPlaguedDuke · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
T5 runs metal seems like it'll be a ridiculously long action chain unless it skips some of the T4 steps and doesn't have its costs scale up as much as they did for T4.

Knowing that I doubt we'd be able to finish all three in time for the next conclave because right now it's 30 years to finish everything we know about alchemy, 20 years to finish rune metal 3B and from what I can estimate 70 years to finish T5 rune metal.

I'd respond to the eighty year plan posted earlier and not just this but I'm on mobile right now so that'll have to wait a bit.

Yeah rune metal is probably going to be 3b long towards the end. The nice thing though is with journeyman/soul 4 actions turns into 8 so we can make mega progress and do like a tier of rune metal every couple turns.

Fayhem · Feb 12, 2021

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Chain is actually just two turns away from completing. Just need to put 5/4 actions into it.

???

soulcake said:
[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3b: [Cost: (18 -1) =17 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc.

Are we talking past each other somehow? Because this says 17 actions when I read it, so either we're talking about different things or your estimate is WAY short.

soulcake said:
The work needed to make the process accessible to the Metalsmiths Guild in a form that wouldn't beggar most of them would be long, arduous, but you refused to stop where you were.

That said, I think your understanding of how much 3b would expand access is correct actually @Jreengus.

LaggPlaguedDuke · Feb 12, 2021

Fayhem said:
???

Are we talking past each other somehow? Because this says 17 actions when I read it, so either we're talking about different things or your estimate is WAY short.

4 actions gives 2 bonus from journeyman, 2 from soul of the earth for rune metal. So 5 actions becomes 9, 4 becomes 8. It'll take two turns to do.

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

SoHowAreYou said:
Snip

I heavily disagree with doing Chains for a Dragon mostly for the same reasons as the others but I also heavily disagree with planning to do rune metal part five that's an extremely long term action and I doubt we'll be done with the alchemy tree after only doing Akazit so to put it simply I think there is much lower hanging fruit than rune metal to be doing right now that will pay off a lot more as well.

We also need to make another adamant smelter at some point which I'd argue would go in turn forty-four with the spare turn forty-three actions being Odd Places and the last action for the smelter going into turn forty-five to mesh with the theoretical Az-Dreugi commission or the Firebird Feathers research.

After that is pretty much one big fat question mark for me to be honest which will only change once we're closer to those turns

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Yeah rune metal is probably going to be 3b long towards the end. The nice thing though is with journeyman/soul 4 actions turns into 8 so we can make mega progress and do like a tier of rune metal every couple turns.

Well if we dedicated four actions per turn to it, it'd only take eighty years and we could do other stuff in the meanwhile so... progress? But ya being real we'll probably finish 3B long before we finish T5 rune metal and then spend a few centuries chipping away at it until it's completed.

Dark as Silver · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
I heavily disagree with doing Chains for a Dragon mostly for the same reasons as the others but I also heavily disagree with planning to do rune metal part five that's an extremely long term action and I doubt we'll be done with the alchemy tree after only doing Akazit so to be put it simply I think there is much lower hanging fruit than rune metal to be doing right now that will pay off a lot more as well.

Rune metal 5 was 12 actions reduced to 6 due to the free research procs we've had.
Are you thinking of Rune Metal B chain which is a 17 action cost for the next level?
Currently why do we need another Adamant Smelter? We can make another smelter, but thats different to needing one.

E: Oh might also be a this a Tier 5 Metal rather than research item number 5 action confusion.

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

Dark as Silver said:
Rune metal 5 was 12 actions reduced to 6 due to the free research procs we've had.
Are you thinking of Rune Metal B chain which is a 17 action cost for the next level?
Currently why do we need another Adamant Smelter? We can make another smelter, but thats different to needing one.

E: Oh might also be a this a Tier 5 Metal rather than research item number 5 action confusion.

Rune metal part five won't get us T5 metal it's the start of the chain to unlock it just like the very first part of the chain was the very start of unlocking adamant so we won't actually be getting our hands on T5 adamant for a very, very long time considering the estimated action costs for the rest of the chain.

For, the adamant smelter it boils down to me not wanting to wait for twenty more turns to build the Grimnir gronti I'd rather spend a couple of actions and bump that forwards like at least five turns if not more depending on how much adamant we use in the mean time.

soulcake · Feb 12, 2021

Fayhem said:
*foot
AKA, "Step on me Evermommy." I'm not sorry.

You all realize Malekith is related to the current Everqueen right? Theyre half siblings.

Joking aside it was literally one of the points raised as to why he couldnt be the next phoenix King. Aenerion established the tradition of the monarchs being wed for the one year thing and any daughter of their union being the next Everqueen after all. Though in time the whole thing did evolve to have more nuance than that. The point is the voting princes thought it was icky.

Tldr the elves arent into incest. Or at least the ones who crowned the phoenix king. I wont comment on the rest of elven society. *stares at the future pleasure cults*

Vokivas · Feb 12, 2021

Yeah, I agree at this point. Who knows what opens up after Akazit, but with SoWhoAreYou's plan that includes Az-Dreugi we can have 6 or 7 free actions between Turns 46 and 47. Cut back all the overflow on the Az, it's limited anyway, and switch out the work on Rune Metal Part 5 for something else.

It's a little early to make any commitments because of Akazit, but I like the leeway. We could push Once More With Smelting to this point and finish Skrundaz. Not devoted to it, but it's an idea that shows how this flexibility might be used.

SoHowAreYou · Feb 12, 2021

Sir LagsAlot said:
I heavily disagree with doing Chains for a Dragon mostly for the same reasons as the others but I also heavily disagree with planning to do rune metal part five that's an extremely long term action and I doubt we'll be done with the alchemy tree after only doing Akazit so to put it simply I think there is much lower hanging fruit than rune metal to be doing right now that will pay off a lot more as well.

We also need to make another adamant smelter at some point which I'd argue would go in turn forty-four with the spare turn forty-three actions being Odd Places and the last action for the smelter going into turn forty-five to mesh with the theoretical Az-Dreugi commission or the Firebird Feathers research.

After that is pretty much one big fat question mark for me to be honest which will only change once we're closer to those turns

Well if we dedicated four actions per turn to it, it'd only take eighty years and we could do other stuff in the meanwhile so... progress? But ya being real we'll probably finish 3B long before we finish T5 rune metal and then spend a few centuries chipping away at it until it's completed.

Rune metal part 5 is 6 actions, and while I think it will go down it will probably still take 3 actions. I only put chains for dragon in because it was a user suggestion, personally, I want the extra smelter.

Woltaire · Feb 12, 2021

soulcake said:
You all realize Malekith is related to the current Everqueen right? Theyre half siblings.

Joking aside it was literally one of the points raised as to why he couldnt be the next phoenix King. Aenerion established the tradition of the monarchs being wed for the one year thing and any daughter of their union being the next Everqueen after all. Though in time the whole thing did evolve to have more nuance than that. The point is the voting princes thought it was icky.

Tldr the elves arent into incest. Or at least the ones who crowned the phoenix king. I wont comment on the rest of elven society. *stares at the future pleasure cults*

hey what is Malekith up to? or is Aenarion still king?
edit: nvm the vote to make bel shanner king held the same year as when dwarf ancestors leave

ArchAIngel · Feb 12, 2021

soulcake said:
You all realize Malekith is related to the current Everqueen right? Theyre half siblings.

Joking aside it was literally one of the points raised as to why he couldnt be the next phoenix King. Aenerion established the tradition of the monarchs being wed for the one year thing and any daughter of their union being the next Everqueen after all. Though in time the whole thing did evolve to have more nuance than that. The point is the voting princes thought it was icky.

Tldr the elves arent into incest. Or at least the ones who crowned the phoenix king. I wont comment on the rest of elven society. *stares at the future pleasure cults*

I'm just going to point at Tyrion from canon being asked by his aunt to not seduce his cousin, and, well, telling said aunt "oops".

Elves are weird.

Tyrion is also a massive Elven lady killer, though, in contrast to Teclis who's a bit naff outside showing off magic but popular with nations he helps.

Sir LagsAlot · Feb 12, 2021

Vokivas said:
Snip

If you want to play around with flexibility I did create this table for solely that purpose.

Actions	Turn 39	Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens Due, and Gnolbarag Lost	Turn 41	Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due	Turn 43 - Skrundaz Lost	Turn 44 - Az-Dreugi Lost	Turn 45 - Gnolbarag Due, and Skrundaz Due	Turn 46 - Az-Dreugi Due
AP 1	Basket	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Eltharin	??? (Akazit)	??? (Akazit)	??? (Alchemy)
AP 2	Basket	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Eltharin	??? (Akazit)	??? (Akazit)	??? (Alchemy)
AP 3	Basket	Armoured Maidens	Grave Wardens	Grave Wardens	Eltharin	??? (Akazit)	??? (Akazit)	??? (Alchemy)
AP 4	Basket	Armoured Maidens	??? (Defense in Depth)	Grave Wardens	??? (Odd Places)	???	???	???
AP 5	Hold Founding	Hold Founding	Rhunkalbrogg	Grave Wardens	??? (Odd Places)	???	???	???

SoHowAreYou said:
Rune metal part 5 is 6 actions, and while I think it will go down it will probably still take 3 actions. I only put chains for dragon in because it was a user suggestion, personally, I want the extra smelter.

Doesn't, matter if part five is six actions as part six will be twelve, part seven will be twenty-four, and part eight will fifteen before we get our hands on some T5 adamant.

Edit: We also have an awful lot of user suggestions they don't tend to get put in updates because they're popular they're put in just because they make sense to put in. Your plan also fails the Grave Warden commission as it only performing 11/12 actions.

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Never wakes up tired.

Definitely not an escaped SCP

Definitely not an escaped SCP

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Yandere Dice Magnet

Definitely not an escaped SCP

Yandere Dice Magnet

Yandere Dice Magnet

Sorcerer Supreme.

Yandere Dice Magnet