Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Sparsebeard said:
The way I see it sure, the risk is moderate, but the payout is minimal.

What information do you expect we'll get from the tribes we couldn't find from our research and theorising. Even if they don't sus us out or attack us I don't expect them to know much... or divulge it to strangers for no reasons.

I'd be highly surprised if they knew what happened to the Karak and Cor-Dun more than we do. At least if we try contacting the Karak directly there would be a potential payoff.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well for one thing we can find out how the beast men fight , have they seen any dawi, how long has this been going on, what the chaos gods are doing, what is the purpose of throwing themselves at a demigod. Also time, we should not spend a second longer than needed in the chaos wastes. Spending a day doing nothing is terrible for so many reason. Possible chaos corruption, getting attacked by something, getting attention of demons, chaos corruption, getting the attention of the chaos gods, getting that attention of the demon Mathilde pissed off, and chaos corruption.
 
Last edited:
Sparsebeard said:
The way I see it sure, the risk is moderate, but the payout is minimal.

What information do you expect we'll get from the tribes we couldn't find from our research and theorising. Even if they don't sus us out or attack us I don't expect them to know much... or divulge it to strangers for no reasons.

I'd be highly surprised if they knew what happened to the Karak and Cor-Dun more than we do. At least if we try contacting the Karak directly there would be a potential payoff.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Can we use magic here without turning into a Chaos Spawn?...
That is an extremely useful piece of information that we can get from any chaman and will surely influence our next action.
 
ReImagined said:
Well if they do approach us instead of the other way around, it's better that they do so when we have fortifications, no?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think it's much better for Mathilde to be taking the initiative, and setting the narrative. If the conversation is taking place out of sight of our encampment it means there's much less risk of having to try to explain away something incongruous.

Also again, Mathilde is not at all necessary to set up fortifications, and unless we want to be mining dhar infused stone it seems like mainly all the fortifications to be set up is circling the wagons, which won't take long.
 
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them

Now that Leave seem like it is not going to win, I will remove the rest of my votes.
 
Last edited:
Sparsebeard said:
The way I see it sure, the risk is moderate, but the payout is minimal.

What information do you expect we'll get from the tribes we couldn't find from our research and theorising. Even if they don't sus us out or attack us I don't expect them to know much... or divulge it to strangers for no reasons.

I'd be highly surprised if they knew what happened to the Karak and Cor-Dun more than we do. At least if we try contacting the Karak directly there would be a potential payoff.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Whether Cor Dum can Chaos Spawn anyone by going near them, or Chaos Spawn wizards for casting spells.
 
GrimTheMad said:
I mean, I'm pretty sure her ability to fake being a vampire would end the moment she got in a fight.

It'd be pretty obvious that she didn't have supernatural speed and all that. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Do we actually know Heidi's fighting abilities? According to her, she just gets extremely lucky, but that is an OP power of its own. It also assumes that the old twice blessed mortal has no other fighting abilities on her own. It could well be that she could fake being a vampire fighter, as long as the enemy was weak enough for real vampire power to not be necessary and no one looked too closely.
 
Last edited:
storryeater said:
Do we actually know Heidi's fighting abilities? According to her, she just gets extremely lucky, but that is an OP power of its own. It also assumes that the old twice blessed mortal has no other fighting abilities on her own. It could well be that she could fake being a vampire fighter, as long as the enemy was weak enough for real vampire power to not be necessary and no one looked too closely.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would imagine she's pretty good at "surprise! dagger" but less so at stand-up fight, unless you know, she just happens to have the perfect weapon on hand oh look what do you know.
 
Nurgle said:
1. Well for one thing we can find out how the beast men fight ,
2. have they seen any dawi,
3. how long has this been going on,
4. what the chaos gods are doing,
5. what is the purpose of throwing themselves at a demigod.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Why would they tell us that? And such a converstion would be MUCH riskier than asking for passage since they have nothing to gain from us and those are all very suspicious questions to ask if we supposedly came here to test ourselves too. Plus, the anwsers to those questions are not very valuable.

1. We might see at no risk it if they fight while we wait and we don't gain much we didn't already suspect from knowing.
2. Ackward and suspicious to ask (and good chances the dwarves don't show themselves even if they are still there)
3. Everything points out to this being going on for 200 years (the timeline and rate of expansion fit too well)
4. We should either know this as fellow worshippers or they don't know since they don't follow the 4 or it's private between their gods and themselves (it would have to be something we couldn't find out from the other two tribes we talked to)
5. Do we even care why (other than to test themselves as we already know).

Fanhunter696 said:
Can we use magic here without turning into a Chaos Spawn?...
That is an extremely useful piece of information that we can get from any chaman and will surely influence our next action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We already can look at the bones and unless we want to infiltrate the Karak or attack Cor-Dum not that primordial to know.

They waited 200 years, we can wait a day! Let's give Karag Dum the time to debrief Borek and possibly contact us before we start consorting with their enemies.
 
Last edited:
Sticking around is seeming less worthwhile all the time, and I want to make it clear that if we fortify for a day and it yields no productive opportunities, I think we should just pick up and leave.
 
Briefvoice said:
Sticking around is seeming less worthwhile all the time, and I want to make it clear that if we fortify for a day and it yields no productive opportunities, I think we should just pick up and leave.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Assuming that we maintain the possibility of communication throughout that time I'm probably with you. Giving them a good few hours to check over Borek, see that we're trying to communicate and decide what to do is very important IMO, but if we get no useable information (such as finding out that Cor-Dum's "use magic, get spawned" aura is off) I'll happily call it at a day.

If the aura is off then we can get to the entrance and ensure they know we're here and have both questions and information for them. If it's on... we're good, but we're not that good without magic.

EDIT: And while there's a chance our runic belt would guard against it to some extent, I don't want to gamble everything on that chance - because we don't know what the vector is that lets the aura work.
 
Last edited:
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[X] Leave

I'll add in an approval vote for leave, since I much prefer it to sitting here for a day. I really feel that if we're not willing to take a risk in trying to make something productive happen then there's no reason at all we should be willing to take the risk of spending 24 hours sitting around a huge dinner bell deep in the wastes.
 
kingreaper said:
Assuming that we maintain the possibility of communication throughout that time I'm probably with you. Giving them a good few hours to check over Borek, see that we're trying to communicate and decide what to do is very important IMO, but if we get no useable information (such as finding out that Cor-Dum's "use magic, get spawned" aura is off) I'll happily call it at a day.

If the aura is off then we can get to the entrance and ensure they know we're here and have both questions and information for them. If it's on... we're good, but we're not that good without magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Borek is not coming back, he has told us to abandon him and Dum, he doesn't know that we are still here, so why do you think he is coming back?

We should look for answers instead of wait forbour answers to come to us... Especially if we are waiting in the Chaos Wastes.
Sparsebeard said:
We already can look at the bones and unless we want to infiltrate the Karak or attack Cor-Dum not that primordial to know.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The thing is that if we want answers we will need to go inside Dum, and Infiltration seems a better option than talking with the fucker.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Borek is not coming back, he has told us to abandon him and Dum, so why do you think he is coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, there is a non-zero chance that Borek will soon come waltzing out of Karag Dum going "What in the name of Grimnir's pubic hair are you guys still doing out here, didn't I tell you to go and tell Karaz-Ankor that we tried?"

Which would be a prime opportunity for those in the thread who want to punch him.
 
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them

Changing my vote to only this. I really think this is the way to gather information, these guys have been testing themselves against Dum for 200 of years, if we want information it's them we've to go. It also minimizes the time we spend in the Wastes.

Besides, although the fortify option may be safer, it's not even guaranteed to give us the info since the Kurgan may decide to attack just on the opposite side of us.

Though I guess that is the reason so many of the people who want to leave are voting for it, no risk and if we don't get information then it's just an argument more to use against people who wants to stay, especially since the options of talking to the Kurgans would be closed off.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Borek is not coming back, he has told us to abandon him and Dum, he doesn't know that we are still here, so why do you think he is coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Because Borek isn't in charge of Karag Dum. He hasn't been there in 185 years. Whatever contingencies they might have had in place before he left, there is no way he knows what they may be thinking right now. Borek can have whatever opinion he wants about how we should just pick up and go home, but does that mean the people in charge will agree with him?

As for them not knowing are still here or even Borek not knowing we are still here... BoneyM has told us that it is a fundamental component of karak defensive design to assume that they'll see enemies coming long before those enemies arrive. I can't believe that Karag Dum has abandoned that principle and has no idea what's going on outside their defensive perimeter. They damn well know we're here. I bet they're looking at us right now, talking about what to do. (That they didn't immediately respond means nothing.)

And if we wait a day and they still don't want to talk us, knowing that we're here? Then I don't see what would be productive about forcing the issue and trying to sneak inside. It won't be worth it.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Borek is not coming back, he has told us to abandon him and Dum, he doesn't know that we are still here, so why do you think he is coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think Borek is coming back. But there's a hold full of dwarves in there, not just Borek - he's not going to in charge of the decision of whether or not to contact us.

He'll be able to give advice, but if his advice is "I'm too depressed about what you've done to talk to any of the allies that came with me - and I'm sure they'll have abandoned the Karag because you did such a horrible thing that you should never have done" they won't be taking it as gospel. Especially given as we're still here.
 
Retrueno said:
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them

Changing my vote to only this. I really think this is the way to gather information, these guys have been testing themselves against Dum for 200 of years, if we want information it's them we've to go. It also minimizes the time we spend in the Wastes.

Besides, although the fortify option may be safer, it's not even guaranteed to give us the info since the Kurgan may decide to attack just on the opposite side of us.

Though I guess that is the reason so many of the people who want to leave are voting for it, no risk and if we don't get information then it's just an argument more to use against people who wants to stay, especially since the options of talking to the Kurgans would be closed off.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If we mess up discussions with the tribe, we pretty much have to leave presto before they contact other tribe and consolidate.

If we wait a day it doesn't close any of the other options, we don't need to leave. And much of the little info we can get from the tribe we might get from observing and testing.

Plus, fortifying is a statement in itself to the Karak. If we fortify, Karag Dum doesn't know for how long. If they think we'll wait until they contact us, they might contact us earlier rather than have us risk our lives.
 
Briefvoice said:
Because Borek isn't in charge of Karag Dum. He hasn't been there in 185 years.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Given how Dwarf Thaneship works, I kind of assume that once a Prince always a Prince.

Although I guess there is Ulthar's example, which muddies the waters a bit.
kingreaper said:
I don't think Borek is coming back. But there's a hold full of dwarves in there, not just Borek
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We don't actually know that either, not for sure. Our actual facts are depressingly few.
 
Last edited:
Guile said:
Given how Dwarf Thaneship works, I kind of assume that once a Prince always a Prince.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
All we know is that he was part of the royal clan. He might be no closer to a prince than a distant relative of Belegar's in Clan Angrund is.

Personally, I severely doubt we'll be getting any parleys from the Dum dwarfs.
 
[x] Spy on a Kul or Kvelige warband that's preparing to attack the Dum without making actual contact if possible.
[x] Spectate the Tribes "testing against the Dum". Watch for Cor-Dum abilities and its effects on chaos tribes.
[x] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
[x] Leave
 
How about we follow a few steps plan

Step 1. Fortify and wait for Borek's response, as well as see if the Kurgans are going to attack to gauge their strength as well as potentially see if magic can be utilized safely. Continue minor experiments and try to test the enviroment using minor magical artifacts, see what happens to artifact.

Step 2. While waiting for step 1, begin trying to get Morghur's attention by using message arrows, rock letters or gift packages, experiment with forest safely for any temporal or time phenomena. If Kurgan's approach we can have the excuse of trying to challenge Col-Dum to a one on one confrontation

Step 3. If Kurgans attack try to coincide with the beastmen's counterattack, have wizards on dispelling duty. and army help out. if possible try to intimidate them into leaving instead to conserve lives of beastmen and expedition or use the kurgans to see if magic is safe to used, it depends.

Step 4. If Kurgans fail to attack, if Borek fails to respond, we approach the Kurgans and try to get info on whether magic can be used safely. If either Borek and/or Morghur responds we get closer to goal.

Step 5. Once info on magic is discovered, as a last resort if all else fails we can infiltrate.


The big question is are we to intervene against the 1st wave if so , then talking to the kurgans will be awkward, if we observe first the battle against the 1st wave , we may get answers, and can intervene against the 2nd wave of kurgans, the second question is do we talk to the kurgans first then intervene against the 2nd wave, to show our support to Karak Dum.

BoneyM has said that attacking the rivals of other tribes, would make enemies of the tribe being attacked happy , since we weaken their rival.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top