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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Jyn Ryvia said:
Kind of don't like how humans don't fall into this argument.

what about Grail Knights? empire nobles? a Kid with the potential to be a wizard that's not yet dhur'd?
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Depends on whether they'd be a liability or an asset on the journey north, and whether we're fortunate enough to find a caravan to send them to Kislev with that we can trust not to reenslave them and sell them on when they get there.

I'd happily buy a Grail Knight and hit them with the Seed, for example. I highly doubt one would be for sale.
 
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[X] Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
I'm not sure Boney will be happy to see this when they get back online.

It feels... too much of manipulation of voting treads or something.
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That's fair, I'll delete the link and edit in a PS going " I deleted the poll link to avoid potentally affecting the vote via methods that I don't know the GM's opinion on, I should have asked first."
 
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In terms of the general argument, what Mathilde is extraordinarily good at is putting herself in the right place at the right time to take advantage of opportunities when they present themselves.

That's what going to the Chaos Dwarf trade city and the skaven settlements does. It puts her in position to stick her oar in - or simply acquire valuable information or material she wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to.

The same was true with Karak Vlag. She took the chance and rolled with the result. That's what she should do here. If there's no opportunity, or she doesn't have the skills or resources to exploit what she finds, she can walk away. If she never goes she certainly can't achieve anything.

Now, we don't know what we'll find. Maybe we'll find some titillating Cathyan literary porn. Maybe we'll have a chat with some Norscan pirates that know what's happening with the Kurgan tribe that's on the outs with the Chaos Gods. Maybe we'll discover that the skaven are stockpiling supplies for a major surface offensive that we'd run into on our way back. Maybe we'll find an opportunity to free a Questing Knight from captivity and recruit him for the Expedition.

We just don't know. What we know for certain is that if we don't try we'll certainly learn nothing and gain nothing.

And, a final comment. Mathilde is a Lady Magister of the Grey College, not of the Light. Ambiguity and compromise and doing a wrong thing for the right reasons are who she is. She's becoming an embodiment of Ulgu, not of Hysh. She's not a creature of inflexible moral rules and bright lines between right and wrong. She's fully capable, and we should be fully capable of voting for her to take what small victories she can in places like these rather than letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and refusing to visit in case her moral purity gets sullied.
 
[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard

I've convinced myself that Borek is not an opportunity we can afford to miss here. Not only is he still one of the most important pieces of our current expedition, he also just achieved his lifelong goal -something most Dawi don't even see happening in their lifetimes- on the wrong target. He's gotta be feeling a very conflicted swirl of emotions right now, and if we're going to try and anticipate his actions, which we should, this is vital information.

... Also, am I the only one who keeps accidentally contracting "Thane Borek" as "Thorek"? I swear I've had to fix that typo like at least three times since the update landed.
 
[X] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr
[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
 
[x] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[x] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[x] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[X] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr
[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Kind of don't like how humans don't fall into this argument.

what about Grail Knights? empire nobles? a Kid with the potential to be a wizard that's not yet dhur'd?
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That would be nice to find humans but honestly it would be rare to find humans resistant to the madness and live long enough as slave compare to elves and dwarves due to their strong will and lifespan, would be not be surprise if they live on spite that one day they would be free even if it takes decades. Imagine the wealth of information.
Human slaves are disposable, short term and easily corrupted assistants compare to elves and dwarves which would be more likely seen in slave markets if their masters love mocking them as common horseflesh on display for sale due to their race's pride.
 
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My own thoughts on Uzkulaz are simple: we arrive, we see if there are any warbands who look like they are getting ready to head in a fuck-the-Expedition-wards direction, which is clearly pertinent intelligence everyone will be happy to have. Then we spend the rest of our time window shopping and writing down the name of every single human merchant we run into, so the ones who aren't also spies can go right onto the pyres next time they visit the Empire.

A very useful visit, minimal risk and we might even get a trinket or two out of it.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
Let's just... calibrate our expectations, alright?

To quote @ctulhuslp and @13th Fleet :

This isn't going to be "Chaos Vegas", it's going to be Mathilde walking past slave pens full of people she can do nothing to help, who are destined to be worked to death by the Chaos Dwarfs, eaten by Ogres, sacrificed by God knows who, and so on.

It'll be the Chaos Eclipse Arc of Berserk: tons of demons, corruption, misery and violence, and her being helpless while looking in the eyes of the victims.

And that's fine. It'll be well written - just look at the rat mother scene - it'll affirm our resolve, it'll give us more information on how to proceed, it'll meaningfully evoke Mathilde's character and her relationship with her god.

What it won't be is fun. I'm still voting to go.
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"It'll be horrible, but well-written" is an argument I an extremely predisposed against. I've read only one quest where that argument was used to vote for a horrible option. But in that one instance it resulted in well written horribleness, something that was very much significantly worse than it would have been if I'd read a similar scene by a less skilled author. I really, really, really never want to read anything like that ever again.

I make no judgement on what BoneyM would write if the Uzkulak option wins. And BoneyM has proven to be good and not-horrible when handling morally dark and painful things. But on top of simply not wanting to see any scenes of that location, because that same argument is being used again I can't in good conscience vote for that option.

[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[X] Preceptor Joerg von Zavstra
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
[X] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[X] Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania
[X] Journeyman Cyrston von Danling
[X] Ranging far ahead of the convoy
[] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
 
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Alratan said:
What we know for certain is that if we don't try we'll certainly learn nothing and gain nothing.
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This is disingenuous. We aren't choosing between "explore" and "do nothing," we're choosing between "explore" and "strengthen social ties within the expedition."

From an ends-oriented perspective, I like the sure gain of "we will definitely become closer with X and learn more about them" more than "we might find something crucial to the expedition's success or we might just find nothing." From a means-oriented perspective, I like Boney's character writing more than I like setting material. Other people may have different value judgments, but it is in fact a value judgment.

By all means, say "I want to gamble and try to get lucky," I have no quarrel with that, but the alternative isn't learning nothing and gaining nothing. The alternative is (based on the current tally) learning about Ruprecht, one of the heroes of the last battle, and/or gaining rapport with Borek, the leader of the expedition who is probably feeling a lot of complex shit right now. The whole premise of this quest is that individuals' motivations matter.
 
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picklepikkl said:
This is disingenuous. We aren't choosing between "explore" and "do nothing," we're choosing between "explore" and "strengthen social ties within the expedition."

From an ends-oriented perspective, I like the sure gain of "we will definitely become closer with X and learn more about them" more than "we might find something crucial to the expedition's success or we might just find nothing." From a means-oriented perspective, I like Boney's character writing more than I like setting material. Other people may have different value judgments, but it is in fact a value judgment.

By all means, say "I want to gamble and try to get lucky," I have no quarrel with that, but the alternative isn't learning nothing and gaining nothing. The alternative is (based on the current tally) learning about Ruprecht, one of the heroes of the last battle, and/or gaining rapport with Borek, the leader of the expedition who is probably feeling a lot of complex shit right now. The whole premise of this quest is that individuals' motivations matter.
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Or she could piss them off and alienate them, for all you know. Where does the guarantee that the rather mediocre Diplomacy Mathilde is certain to succeed with her social overtures?

You're making a very strong statement here. We don't have an equivalent to the Deceiver or Night Prowler face of the Coin here that gives divinely guaranteed results.

And we should remember that we have the pretty incredibly socially competent Johann to break the ice with other people on the Expedition and strengthen bonds. He can substitute for that in a way that he can't turn invisible or wear another face to infiltrate an enemy settlement. Mathilde isn't alone here. She doesn't have to do everything herself.

And I don't appreciate the accusation of lying. Please retract it.
 
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[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[X] Preceptor Joerg von Zavstra
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
[X] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[X] Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania
[X] Journeyman Cyrston von Danling

I don't like normal dwarfs and adding Chaos does not make them particularly more pleasant, so...
 
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider

[X] Ranging far ahead of the convoy

[X] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr
[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about

Chaos Vegas, here we come!
 
Talking of moral quandaries, Mathilde would probably find it much harder to dispose of Borek if it becomes necessary if she get to know him too well.

I think that's the thing she'd have much more of a long term issue with than having to prioritise her mission over the liberty of some slaves she's never met before.
 
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider

[X] Ranging far ahead of the convoy

[X] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr
[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
 
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