Crafter of War
The Dorf
- Location
- Bend
Quick question people. Are we doing nothing about the people that were hired?
No vetting to make sure that they aren't spies?
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone
- Thread starter prometheus110
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- USA
That would have been the Job of Raven. You have to remember Raven are "mercenaries" and include members that where once part of the Helghan Intelligence Service.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eh, I'm skeptical on using the jumpships but selling them isn't a bad idea and would probably generate some serious cash along with attention from C* since I'm pretty sure there are probably only a handful of Jumpship yards in the periphery at most. Given our industry we could probably make a lot of them.
I'm more in favour of using our warp drives for the forseeable future. It should be easy enough to convert the freighter hull into a high-capacity tanker or to design a new one based on the deign to tag along with our ships. Of course we could also design ships to construct small automated refuelling platforms with FTL comm relays behind our ships as they advance, remember that when Helgan was discovered the Helgan Corporation built a load of automated mines and refineries to produce fuel which was sent up to a small orbital station. So we know how to do it and an advantage of that is that we could string comms relays behind the ships as they advance allowing for us to know what's happening wherever our ships are with minimal delay. As opposed to the week-long wait at minimum to hear back from ship travelling by Jumpship.
There were HIS agents embedded within Raven who could perform the checks but an additional few checks probably wouldn't be out of the question given C* was getting interested in the Periphery.
- Location
- USA
Well the thing about Jumpships is they're great long haulers and the support infrastructure for them already exists unlike our Warpcoils which we need to build the infrastructure for. With not needing to worry about the ships to some extent and cargo longevity Jumpships make excellent trade ships for us and pull the periphery further away from the decline. Also militarily it means we have something to transport our military dropships and we don't need to modify our Warships to carry them.
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- He/Him
A good point but I think if we have use them then we should use them as a stop-gap, or perhaps as a decoy to C* until they catch on to our warp drives. Do note in regards to our military dropships, our current one is more of a primitive intermediate design between our existing dropships and BT Dropships. In all likelyhood we may be able to combine our warpcoils with the Dropship design either by creating a ship with the distinct silhoutte of Helghast vessels or perhaps finding a way to turn the coil on its horixontal axis to create a ship entirely sifferent from our existing ships both helping disguise the ships and reducing the targetable surface of the ship.
Actually, if we take it as a rule that the sides of the coil must be exposed without having a more advanced coil design then we could probably get away with an almost donut shaped vessel which whilst oddly shaped wouldn't look too out of there for C*. In effect we could wind up with something they might just declare to be some sort of crazy Periphery design that would never work based on their tech base but would be fine for ours.
- Location
- Back in Cali
Yes and they won because they were huge. And the MAWLR was almost completely stripped by fighting a very light Company. And because people didn't deploy any support for them. It also doesn't change the fact the MAWLR is still only a defensive unit. And maintenance will not be an issue at all as it isn't one right now. With more advanced equipment it becomes more extensive not less but it would still depend on the planet it is on. And the Cannon it has is the only possible anti-orbit weapon and even then it is most for taking out ships in atmosphere. They are still limited to where they can be sent. They are also still going to be very vulnerable to getting taken out if you rely on them only. Normal military forces are still a much better use instead with heavy support on Planets that can take MAWLRs. Plus the building of a next to worthless ISA cruiser design when we have no need to do it. Plus the new tank is overkill right now. Building new versions of our current tanks would be more than enough with the upgrades we have now.
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ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
[X] Mechs, Planes, and Rocket Guns. With a little sweet talking and Visas
- Location
- Back in Cali
Like I'm not saying don't upgrade it. I do want it upgraded it just doesn't need to be done this turn. Plus the first ones would still be on Helghan and frankly the homeworld is very heavily defended with both space and ground based defensive emplacements and the detachment of of our strongest ships.
Next turn I would plan to have the MAWLR and if @prometheus110 allows it the Lawbringer line of escort and defense dropships to better protect our worlds that can't afford the heavy defenses of Helghan. And to let our fleet off the leash and deal massive amounts of damage.
Next turn I would plan to have the MAWLR and if @prometheus110 allows it the Lawbringer line of escort and defense dropships to better protect our worlds that can't afford the heavy defenses of Helghan. And to let our fleet off the leash and deal massive amounts of damage.
- Location
- USA
The thing to note about MAWLRs is they are one of the last defensive units before regular forces engage each other. We can ship MAWLRs to other planets but we don't have ships big enough (yet) to transport them whole so they need to shipped in parts then assembled at their destination and only planets at certain levels can actually support them so only important planets would get them like say Mir or Portland. Also on the concerns of new ships as has been discussed before we've been really wanting to wait till we get primitive Energy shields at the least to improve their survivability.
- Location
- Back in Cali
They already have more than enough survival with the new armor shields aren't needed. Shields would give an edge but the fact our ships already have a large amount of armor means it isn't that much of a needed edge right now. Plus it is very likely to be a power hog and need a Petrusite or Irradiated Petrusite reactor dedicated to it to make it work.
And not really the MAWLR is not the last defensive unit to engage before normal forces because it needs normal forces to be effective or even with its new update they would still be overwhelmed. The MAWLR is extremely vulnerable to smaller forces when unsupported. That is why the ISA besides having plot Armor was able to destroy one on their own.
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So long as we keep any MAWLRs attached to or accompanied by at least one army we should be golden as far as protecting them goes. Actually, even if we don't want to use the main gun to sweep across enemy battlelines in combat we could theoretically swap out the gun for a missile pod or something and should we ever need multiple to operate in the same area due to large numbers of enemy strikecraft then one can saturate the sky with missiles while the other takes on dropships, or sweeps its gun over enemy formations.
Of course though, we probably wont need to worry about needing multiple of them until we either build something big enough to carry them or develop a version that can be easily broken down then reassembled for attacks or build them on our other worlds.
Let's also not forget the power of that main gun, iirc when you see it first appear in Killzone 3 one of the ISA Cruisers tries to make a break for it hinting that these things have been extremely busy hitting ISA ships across the city. Hell, the Captain willing to wait for the troops gives them all of like, 2 minutes to get to the dropships for evac even straight up abandoning a good chunk of the evacuating troops just because a single MAWLR is shooting at his now 2 cruisers. Not to mention that the ship that tried to run got yeeted in the first shot.
Mentioning the battle for Phyrrus reminds me, @prometheus110 are the anti-orbital Arc Towers/Cannons still there? Given that most of them were disabled rather than outright destroyed with, from what I remember, the majority of the static petrusite weapons being disabled when the cruiser "New Sun" crashes into the petrusite grid. There was also one in Visari's palace that I think was one of the ones we see one-shotting an ISA cruiser in the Killzone 2 intro. Obviously given it wasn't an option when the pirates attacked but could it potentially be repaired and expanded as an additional form of planetary defence for Helgan alone since it was hinted as monopolising the refinery output when firing.
Of course though, we probably wont need to worry about needing multiple of them until we either build something big enough to carry them or develop a version that can be easily broken down then reassembled for attacks or build them on our other worlds.
Let's also not forget the power of that main gun, iirc when you see it first appear in Killzone 3 one of the ISA Cruisers tries to make a break for it hinting that these things have been extremely busy hitting ISA ships across the city. Hell, the Captain willing to wait for the troops gives them all of like, 2 minutes to get to the dropships for evac even straight up abandoning a good chunk of the evacuating troops just because a single MAWLR is shooting at his now 2 cruisers. Not to mention that the ship that tried to run got yeeted in the first shot.
Mentioning the battle for Phyrrus reminds me, @prometheus110 are the anti-orbital Arc Towers/Cannons still there? Given that most of them were disabled rather than outright destroyed with, from what I remember, the majority of the static petrusite weapons being disabled when the cruiser "New Sun" crashes into the petrusite grid. There was also one in Visari's palace that I think was one of the ones we see one-shotting an ISA cruiser in the Killzone 2 intro. Obviously given it wasn't an option when the pirates attacked but could it potentially be repaired and expanded as an additional form of planetary defence for Helgan alone since it was hinted as monopolising the refinery output when firing.
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- Location
- USA
It's called stacking the deck you want that deck stacked as much as you can. That's why I didn't want to do the Hasta's till we had standard armor and structure at the least because of how obsolete it would be in a couple of years but you pushed for it.
As for the MAWLR the Pirate battle not withstanding because of technological and numerical disparity can hold off a large force the ISA forces where only able to finally destroy it by wiping out the bridge crew but even then it had slaughtered most of the ISA forces and was still fighting and causing damage even after the massive amount of damage it sustained. And considering that most invasion forces aren't much bigger then the pirate attack along with much tougher armor and structure could quite possibly fight off an invasion force by itself.
I don't quite understand you @Adventwolf you seem to dislike the very concept of the MAWLR (judging by your discussion in the thread), you put down energy shields as unnecessary to research now yet your plan has them as part of your research choices, you seem dead set against us researching KF-drive, and it seems at times that you are acting argumentative without good reason. 
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- Location
- Northish
When the pirates invaded we did use the anti-orbital cannons, they just didn't have the punch to effectively disable dropships. On the plus side we can overhaul the orbital batteries with the technology we gained. Everything from building large-scale lasers to petricite lance torpedo launchers is on the table.
[X] Plan Mining, Upgrades, And Ships
[X] Mechs, Planes, and Rocket Guns. With a little sweet talking and Visas
I don't really like it, but it's better than a plan that includes 'Ships' in its name and then doesn't build any Hastas.
I don't really like it, but it's better than a plan that includes 'Ships' in its name and then doesn't build any Hastas.
@coyote16able you may want to consider replacing the 'Design write-in: ISA Cruiser' or the 'Joint Mineral Exploitation Program - Artru (50m)' with 'Construct a Hasta-class cruiser Squadron' this will likely allow your plan to win.
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- Location
- USA
Like i said I see them as destroyers which we are sorely lacking while also these new ones if my plan wins they would be built with researched technologies so would actually be even better then the ones that invaded Vekta hell we could even create them and then send them around as patrol boats replacing the standard class that's so prevalent.
okay
Attention those who chose my plan I've editted it to swap mineral Exploitation with Hasta's
- Location
- United States
I'm going to give you some advice here, since it seems you're getting frustrated with trying to convince people. A big part of how your ideas are considered is the manner in which they're presented, and on an online forum like this, that means your coherence and grammar. In order to more effectively advocate your arguments, I'd highly suggest putting some effort into using periods and commas in your sentences. This makes your writing much more cogent and bearable, which allows the reader to better consider the actual points of said writing.
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It's a bit big to be used as a destroyer, we'd be better designing a destroyer or patrol boat from scratch to fulfill the role. One of the things we'd need to do it redesign part of it to include the warp ring which would likely also turn it from a vertical vessel to a horizontal one. Hell, even with the carrier idea it may be more effort than it's worth to redesign and rework the design for a carrier and even then given its role in the invasion it would make a better troop transport which seems to have been its primary role. Though take that with a pinch of salt as we don't see or hear of them until the start of killzone 2 given that Vekta relied on its powerful planetary defence network to keep it safe. Even in universe they feel more like up-armoured transports converted to fight a war for which they were simply never intended to fight even if they have a large bombardment laser. The Helghast were only interested in Vekta which by all in-universe metrics had an impenetrable defence network capable of stopping even a UCA battlegroup, the other colonies were either cowed by the presence of these vessels and their marines or were full ISA member worlds. The only other spaceborne power they could of faced was the United Colonial Nations in Sol who ensured that the United Colonial Army had a huge technological advantage over the ISA and I think was actually hinted as being larger as well. The cruisers are even mentioned as being designed and built on Vekta meaning they were either an emergency measure following the invasion or had been produced in limited numbers until that point. Of note also is that the ISA Cassandra, the cruiser we see in Shadowfall, is actually noted as having originally been built as a transport before being converted into a laboratory perhaps hintng that these ships finctioned like the old Spanish Galleons.
Up until the invasion of Vekta everyone thought the Helghast would never be a threat again even though intelligence was telling them about the rise of Scholar Visari and of his military buildup. Once the defence stations were completed that feeling of invulnerability settled in over the ISA so confident were they that the Helghast could never prove a threat to their power. Even the UCN ignored the rising threat until the Helghast Navy was in orbit of Vekta dropping the 3rd Army onto the planets surface and had to scramble its fleet. The ISA and their ships just weren't prepared to fight a war until the Helghast attacked, actually I'd bet good money that at the start of that war Helghast and ISA ships were on an even playing field if not one skewed towards the Helghast. By Killzone 2 the UCN intervened likely giving the ISA the dispersive armour that saved them from the MAWLR and probably giving them the long-range missiles they used on the Helghast Navy in their counterinvasion.
I summary, the ISA cruiser would make a better troop transport or assault carrier than anything else and really only a stopgap one at that. We would be better off homegrowing a dedicated carrier or destroyer though a converted ISA cruiser or 2 would probably be a decent test-bed design to get us used to carrier ops like the coilers and transports that got converted into carriers in the 1920s, such as the Langley.