Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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'History will remember the 205 birthday of Marguerite de l'Esclat, a much loved, in many senses, diplomat among the damsels as the greatest gathering of magical focus in the recorded history of the old world
Lady de l'Esclat's letter of invite went far and wide, and having known the woman's distinct nack for merry-making either by word or experience few who could make the journey to Couronne declined.
so from the empire and Kislv to as far as Araby, Lothern and even mysterious Laurelorn Forest, magic users flocked to enjoy the party of the ages.
while what happened in that event is lost to time and tight lips, it is known that the king has put a ban all those that have the last name de I'Esclat ever inviting people into his realm again. '
---this sample is taken from 'odd moments lost in time' by Runhild Vom Bruch.
Going by the cast page it looks like Ruprecht Wulfhart, Grand Master of the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin, couldn't come on the expedition after all. Be interesting to see who is in charge. And how much authority and or influence Hubert has.
Think Asarnil and Deathfang will get separate entries or will one be a trait of the other?
Think Asarnil and Deathfang will get separate entries or will one be a trait of the other?
Yeah, my thoughts are more about establishing the Sanity Bloc in the campaign's power structure than anything else. Yes, AP hell is a thing, but we can delegate. Sticking Johan in charge of the Wizards,for example, massively reduces the number of individuals we need to wrangle. Far more important is that a large chunk of the Expedition's forces are used to listening to us.
At the critical point, if Borek goes Slayer, that clout is going to be irreplaceable.
At the critical point, if Borek goes Slayer, that clout is going to be irreplaceable.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I'm my primary reason is: "get some more humans on the council as due to political reasons they are going to be less beholden to the overall leader than all the dwarve leaders are, so it is more likely that we will be able to get them to add their voices to ours when it comes to discussion[1] and voting[2] if needed"
[1]Something hoping about languages
[2] If that's relevant at any point, or even the impression of 'voting', - a visual reminder of numbers if anarchy happens if the main dude goes slayer
[1]Something hoping about languages
[2] If that's relevant at any point, or even the impression of 'voting', - a visual reminder of numbers if anarchy happens if the main dude goes slayer
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What is people's opposition to leading the Knightly Orders?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
You make it sound like decision making will happen by democratic vote but that's not how things will play out. Adding more voices to the discussion table doesn't mean the human forces get more control and probably means the opposite if there are language barrier issues.
[x] Lead the Wizards and Asarnil
B: Commanding hundreds of people is a different responsibility than commanding a dozen or so elites and may interfere with Mathilde working away from the caravan (scouting, assassinating, the ice witch fetch quest etc.)
C: The Wizards and Asarnil are characters we know or want to keep an eye on, while the knights are largely a blob of units we are less likely to interact with once the expedition is done.
A: We only get so many actions, so the more we try to manage the worse we are just due to split attention. The knights are the ones most likely to represent themselves well without friction.
B: Commanding hundreds of people is a different responsibility than commanding a dozen or so elites and may interfere with Mathilde working away from the caravan (scouting, assassinating, the ice witch fetch quest etc.)
C: The Wizards and Asarnil are characters we know or want to keep an eye on, while the knights are largely a blob of units we are less likely to interact with once the expedition is done.
Also, these are two knightly orders who came on this expedition because they love throwing themselves into combat with chaos. Why do people think that "the humans" are going to go more towards Mathilde's side than Borek's side? Your efforts to add more voices may be adding more voices in favor of taking chances Mathilde doesn't want to take and risks she thinks don't need to be risked.
In all fairness the knights aren't Slayers or flagellants. They want to win glory by defeating enemies of the Empire and the bonus of dwarf favour is nice enough that they're doing it in the expedition but they probably wouldn't go with Borek uncritically.
Having them firmly under Mathilde's command would cement her position though, particularly if we can get Gotrek with the promise of a spot in K8P.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
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@Phalfpipe was correct.
Emphasis mine. Six of the other colleges.
Anyway, I'm not interested in leading the knights because these are two knightly orders that have already proven themselves in "can be directed by dwarves." I'd rather spend our efforts managing the less-proven factors.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Two things for me. First, it makes us have a weird amount of control. We become in charge of cavalry and magic, but not in charge of everything, which puts us in an awkward coordination spot.
The other big issue is that I really want both of the human leaders on the Council, to give us additional influence to bear on Borek.
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A and B are essencially the same issue and one that Boney calls out in the update so fair enough. Just different priorities I guess. C won't really change how many characters we speak to since only the commanders of the knights have names or faces.
The update specifically notes that they worked well with *Belegar* but that Borek is no Belegar.
being in charge of all the imperial auxillery forces at once is actually really normal and so is a wizard lord (or a Thane for that matter) commanding an army. Indeed, having a Dwarfen Thane who is also an imperial commanding the imperial auxillery forces is *ideal* by tradition metrics.
While having another voice on the council actually weakens our position. If we control half the expidition then Borek has to listen to us and it gives us more legitimancy to challenge his descisions. On the other hand if we only a controll a few specialists then we would face a harder time dictating policy.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Very very poorly worded on my part. Was trying to imply '(a very minor amount of) additional social pressure' from seeing other people around the table agreeing with Mathilde's positions.
My read is that outside of a direct hierarchy that a given dwarf is part of, siad given dwarf would be more resistant to this than an IRL human... but resistance is not immunity.
Edit: Luperal makes a good point regarding "Mathilde commands so many" that is in opposition to my "having people visibly agreeing with Mathile during council stuff is good" as my position demands that we not be in command of all those people.
Because they are not likely to be suicidal like we worry Borek might become. They want to fight chaos yes, but there's no point wasting lives fighting chaos followers in the wastes for its own sake. From the position of the knight companies... what would suiciding at chaos follower band #352 accomplish if chances are that said band will be destroyed or absorbed in the next year?
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Thing is that in a non-democratic war council (which is what we are working with) an opinions power is not decided by how many voices support it but by the personal military power (both their own prowess and their number of followers) of the voices. One voice for all of the wizards, knights and Asarnil has more descision making power then the voice of the wizards and Asarnil teaming up with the one (or two depending on how they orginise) voice(s) of the knights teaming up.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I think you have a drastic misread of what motivates Borek if you think Social pressure will matter in the slightest here. This entire expedition wouldn't exist if Borek was even slightly influencable by social pressure given the crucible that is the history of how this expedition came to be I think it's completely pointless to try and go that route with him. Persuasive argument has a chance, carefully stacking the deck and how information is presented to push him to make decisions that are 'sensible' could influence him. Peer pressure will do little to nothing.
That's my read of the situation we have with Borek. Adding another human voice wont help.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Not him. Literally all the other dwarves on whatever council thingy is formed except for him.
In my view it's to help mitigate the consequences of him becoming... erratic for whatever reason. Hopefully mitigate the consequences, at least.
Edit: I fully agree with your read on Borek here btw, but I would strongly appreciate it if you would read my mind rather than rely upon the poorly chosen words I type in an attempt to communicate my positions and reasoning.
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- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Our faction (of not being stupid idiots and trying to hold on to the Karak) is the thing almost anyone would take, so us needing complete control isn't necessary.
Remember the knights have quite a lot of responsibilities back home, and would have effective internal chains of command. They're also highly religious orders who would go with their beliefs whatever we order.
I think in essence the main reason to take them is just the political power - they don't need managing to avoid triggering Dwarves and they don't have the kind of deathwish needed to follow Borek to a glorious Doom if it came to that.
We basically have the following blocks:
-Asarnil - Superheavy heroic combatant
-Wizards - Exotic Problem Solvers. Also Heroic combatants across the range.
-Knights - Heavy Cavalry
-Dwarfs - Heavy Infantry & Artillery
It is very likely that effectively directing the knights would require being in different places than effectively directing wizards.
I think in essence the main reason to take them is just the political power - they don't need managing to avoid triggering Dwarves and they don't have the kind of deathwish needed to follow Borek to a glorious Doom if it came to that.
We basically have the following blocks:
-Asarnil - Superheavy heroic combatant
-Wizards - Exotic Problem Solvers. Also Heroic combatants across the range.
-Knights - Heavy Cavalry
-Dwarfs - Heavy Infantry & Artillery
It is very likely that effectively directing the knights would require being in different places than effectively directing wizards.
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- She/Her
Not really? Battle Magic is essentially artillery but most of our wizards are actually cav equivilents instead of battle magic users.
And since our Wizards are already split that way and Asarnil is Cav++ we would need to split or delegate either way.
And since our Wizards are already split that way and Asarnil is Cav++ we would need to split or delegate either way.
I think the wizards each have very different niches, so are effectively impossible to centrally command. They just need to be assigned to their role and trusted to get on with it.
- Location
- Germany
Keep in mind the main group for infantry here are Slayers.
By no means traditional Heavies, more light infantry without the usual morale troubles that unarmored humans tend to have when charging dangerous-looking things.
- Location
- Outside the Box
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- She/Her
I understand everyone's worries about spreading our focus too broadly, but people are forgetting that Rite of Way is the perfect spell for leading cavalry charges. Plus, one of our goals for the Expedition is to level up, and there's no better way for Mathilde to get a Knight of Shadow related trait than by taking leadership of the Knightly Orders.