I seem to recall someone put up a beer dragon at one point. I would totally OK that.
@egoo next forge-proposal:

Grog Dragon
The brown scaled creature would look like a small barrel if it weren't for its four stubbly limbs and the clearly draconic head standing out from the broad torso.

Tiny Dragon
Hit Dice:
2d12+2 (15 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 5ft. (1 squares), fly 30 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 17 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/–6
Attack: Bite +0 melee (1d4-2)
Full Attack: Bite +0 melee (1d4-2)
Space/Reach: 3 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon (Grog)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd)
At will—Prestidigitation, Detect Poison, Mage Hand
3/day—Create Water, Rotgut, Prestidigitation (Quickened)

Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/magic, 10/- Fire resistance darkvision 60 ft., immunity to sleep, paralysis and poison
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 14
Skills: Bluff +3, Diplomacy +7, Sense Motive +7, Knowledge (Nobility) +5, Knowledge (History) +5, Performance (Storytelling) +7, Spot +3, Survival +3
Feats: Quicken Spell-like Ability (Prestidigitation), Scent
Languages Common, Draconic
Alignment: Usually Lawful

Special Abilities:
Breathweapon (Grog): The Grog Dragon can spew a fine spray of low-quality alcohol every 1d4 rounds in a 15ft Cone. Creatures in hit by this must make a DC11 Fortitude save or be blinded for one round. If the dragon spews into an open flame or uses its Quickened Prestidigitation to make a spark directly afterwards all creatures hit by the spray take 2d4 Fire damage.

ECOLOGY
Environment
any urban
Organization solitary
Treasure double standard

The Grog Dragon was without a doubt the creation of some mage, dragon or other powerful being that wished for an impressive table-servant. Its ability to create water or alcoholic beverages, combined with Prestidigitation at will and an exellent memory of tastes and scents allow it to near-perfectly imitate any drink it has tasted before, while the Magehand enables an elegant serving despite its short, near useless limbs. It can also be a charming conversationalist.

The Grog Dragon is nearly as greedy as its larger cousins, feeling similar hoarding instincts, but lacking the physical power or magical aptitude to claim and defend a hoard the usual way it often sells its services as a cup-bearer to nobles or mages that can afford to pay him.

Edit: This proposal is over 3 years and about 14k pages old, it was my first attempt at monster-design and it was meant as a pure joke.
But by the power of fleshforging we can now finally make the memes reality!
 
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There was an unofficial agreement that we don't want more Metallics or Chromatics like @egoo just said. But making our own breeds, especially dragons that have specific roles in the Imperium, was given two thumbs up.
Personally I would like to make a very small amount of Metallic eggs, simply because I want to see how much we can make Bahamut pay us for them.

Although of course, we should negotiate the payment first, then decide if it's worth giving Bahamut Metallic eggs for.

I have long given up on the idea of allying with Bahamut, but he's rich as hell(or at least as a significant fraction of a circle of hell) the eggs wouldn't immediately grow his power much, and while he's our enemy, he's also the enemy of a lot of our enemies, so I think him growing in power, would inconvenience them as much as us, which would make it worth it, if he made a sufficiently tempting offer.

Understand me right, I don't want Bahamut anywhere near our empire, but I would like to find a priest of his, and hear what kind of reward Bahamut would offer for a metallic dragon egg.
 
@egoo next forge-proposal:

Grog Dragon
The brown scaled creature would look like a small barrel if it weren't for its four stubbly limbs and the clearly draconic head standing out from the broad torso.

Tiny Dragon
Hit Dice:
2d12+2 (15 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 5ft. (1 squares), fly 30 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 17 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/–6
Attack: Bite +0 melee (1d4-2)
Full Attack: Bite +0 melee (1d4-2)
Space/Reach: 3 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon (Grog)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd)
At will—Prestidigitation (Quickened), Detect Poison, Mage Hand
3/day—Create Water, Rotgut

Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/magic, 10/- Fire resistance darkvision 60 ft., immunity to sleep, paralysis and poison
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 14
Skills: Bluff +3, Diplomacy +7, Sense Motive +7, Knowledge (Nobility) +5, Knowledge (History) +5, Performance (Storytelling) +7, Spot +3, Survival +3
Feats: Quicken Spell-like Ability (Prestidigitation), Scent
Languages Common, Draconic
Alignment: Usually Lawful

Special Abilities:
Breathweapon (Grog): The Grog Dragon can spew a fine spray of low-quality alcohol every 1d4 rounds in a 15ft Cone. Creatures in hit by this must make a DC11 Fortitude save or be blinded for one round. If the dragon spews into an open flame or uses its Quickened Prestidigitation to make a spark directly afterwards all creatures hit by the spray take 2d4 Fire damage.

ECOLOGY
Environment
any urban
Organization solitary
Treasure double standard

The Grog Dragon was without a doubt the creation of some mage, dragon or other powerful being that wished for an impressive table-servant. Its ability to create water or alcoholic beverages, combined with Prestidigitation at will and an exellent memory of tastes and scents allow it to near-perfectly imitate any drink it has tasted before, while the Magehand enables an elegant serving despite its short, near useless limbs. It can also be a charming conversationalist.

The Grog Dragon is nearly as greedy as its larger cousins, feeling similar hoarding instincts, but lacking the physical power or magical aptitude to claim and defend a hoard the usual way it often sells its services as a cup-bearer to nobles or mages that can afford to pay him.

Edit: This proposal is over 3 years and about 14k pages old, it was my first attempt at monster-design and it was meant as a pure joke.
But by the power of fleshforging we can now finally make the memes reality!
This is an excellent base to work with. The older and more powerful they get the better the booze they brew. :D We shall have the greatest booze in the Planes.
I'm still sort of hesitant about adding too many powerful and stubborn magical super predators, but if you guys think we can manage them then I can get on board with it.

Having friendly versions of stuff like Beast Dragons, Smoke Dragons, and Skincrawler Dragons could be useful.
It's less tossing out a bunch of dragons randomly and more making sure they actually fit into society. Dragons to help with the legal system, dragons to work with the Inquisition, etc.
 
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This is an excellent base to work with. The older and more powerful they get the better the booze they brew. :D We shall have the greatest booze in the Planes.

It's less tossing out a bunch of dragons randomly and more making sure they actually fit into society. Dragons to help with the legal system, dragons to work with the Inquisition, etc.

Don't forget Dragons to help throw wild parties. The most important thing in a society. At least if you ask anyone under 30.
 
@Azel My basic idea for our personal Arcane Dragon Variant would be along these lines:
Wyrmling:


Adult:

Ward Dragon

The Ward Dragon is created largely by inverting the Hex Dragon's affinity for necromantic magic into a draconic race deeply intwined with the school of Abjuration. The Ward Dragon's magical skill is almost always superior to that of most dragons of similar age and power, though their bodies are comparativly weak.

The Ward Dragon has a strong protective instinct for that which he considers his and can get extremly vicious in its defence. As a combination of this and their magical skill a Ward Dragon is likely to cover his home in traps and wards of all kinds available to him, often converting much of his hoard into ingredients and magic items to better protect the rest of it.
As consquence of this behaviour the Ward Dragon is likely to lair far away from civilisation to avoid conflict with neighbours and keep true or imagined threats from spying on his home. Despite this they are generally willing to leave their remote and secure lairs behind in search of more treasure, magic and knowledge.

Only at old age does the regular Ward Dragon feel secure enough to live besides other beings (outside of mates during his Young to Mature Adulthood) and it is in this age that the Ward Dragon often expands his definition of his hoard to include allies or servants. As such they are relative "latebloomers" when it comes to political activity and the claiming of minions compared to most kinds of dragons.

Appearance:
The Ward Dragon is even at first glance obviously a creature of magic. In Wyrmlings this can manifest as bright magical flames and lights sprouting of the dragon, while the effect becomes more contained with growing age. An Adult Ward Dragon is still visibly lit by an inner glow, while an Ancient Wyrm would be difficult to discern from a Blue Wyrm, save for details like the smoother and smaller scales and the dual horns compared to the Blue's distinct singular one.

Traits (general outline, to be defined for finished product):
Arcane Dragon traits:
As common for Arcane Dragons the Ward Dragon lacks in physical prowess, his natural weapons deal damage as if it were one size-category smaller than it truly is. Also similarly it can take one Medium or Small Humanoid form and it is a good flyer compared to dragons of the same age.

Abjuration Affinity:
The Ward Dragon knows all Abjuration spells from the Player Handbook automatically, in addition to the regular spells known for a Sorcerer of its level and it can learn spells from the Protection Domain as if they were on the Sorcerer spell list.
//As a note, Hex Dragons know all Necromancy and Enchantment spells and have access to the knowledge domain.

Arcane Breath:
The Ward Dragon's breathweapon deals Force damage, in exchange the damage is lower than average and it can be resisted by SR.
At some age-category, maybe Mature Adult the breath gets and inherent Dispelling ability.

Nose for Magic:
At some relativly early age-category the Ward Dragon gains the ability to recognise magic by scent (effectivly Arcane Sight) and later he is capable of feeling magic events shortly before they happen, resulting in a bonus to saves and an ability comparable to the Anticipate Teleport spell.

This is all relativly rough, if it gains interest I'd certainly refine it.
 
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@Azel My basic idea for our personal Arcane Dragon Variant would be along these lines:
Wyrmling:


Adult:

Ward Dragon

The Ward Dragon is created largely by inverting the Hex Dragon's affinity for necromantic magic into a draconic race deeply intwined with the school of Abjuration. The Ward Dragon's magical skill is almost always superior to that of most dragons of similar age and power, though their bodies are comparativly weak.

The Ward Dragon has a strong protective instinct for that which he considers his and can get extremly vicious in its defence. As a combination of this and their magical skill a Ward Dragon is likely to cover his home in traps and wards of all kinds available to him, often converting much of his hoard into ingredients and magic items to better protect the rest of it.
As consquence of this behaviour the Ward Dragon is likely to lair far away from civilisation to avoid conflict with neighbours and keep true or imagined threats from spying on his home. Despite this they are generally willing to leave their remote and secure lairs behind in search of more treasure, magic and knowledge.

Only at old age does the regular Ward Dragon feel secure enough to live besides other beings (outside of mates during his Young to Mature Adulthood) and it is in this age that the Ward Dragon often expands his definition of his hoard to include allies or servants. As such they are relative "latebloomers" when it comes to political activity and the claiming of minions compared to most kinds of dragons.

Appearance:
The Ward Dragon is even at first glance obviously a creature of magic. In Wyrmlings this can manifest as bright magical flames and lights sprouting of the dragon, while the effect becomes more contained with growing age. An Adult Ward Dragon is still visibly lit by an inner glow, while an Ancient Wyrm would be difficult to discern from a Blue Wyrm, save for details like the smoother and smaller scales and the dual horns compared to the Blue's distinct singular one.

Traits (general outline, to be defined for finished product):
Arcane Dragon traits:
As common for Arcane Dragons the Ward Dragon lacks in physical prowess, his natural weapons deal damage as if it were one size-category smaller than it truly is. Also similarly it can take one Medium or Small Humanoid form and it is a good flyer compared to dragons of the same age.

Abjuration Affinity:
The Ward Dragon knows all Abjuration spells from the Player Handbook automatically, in addition to the regular spells known for a Sorcerer of its level and it can learn spells from the Protection Domain as if they were on the Sorcerer spell list.
//As a note, Hex Dragons know all Necromancy and Enchantment spells and have access to the knowledge domain.

Arcane Breath:
The Ward Dragon's breathweapon deals Force damage, in exchange the damage is lower than average and it can be resisted by SR.
At some age-category, maybe Mature Adult the breath gets and inherent Dispelling ability.

Nose for Magic:
At some relativly early age-category the Ward Dragon gains the ability to recognise magic by scent (effectivly Arcane Sight) and later he is capable of feeling magic events shortly before they happen, resulting in a bonus to saves and an ability comparable to the Anticipate Teleport spell.

This is all relativly rough, if it gains interest I'd certainly refine it.
I'm unconvinced. It's a whole lot of power, with that power being the main concept.

I mean... force breathweapon? Knowing a whole lot of extra spells? Save bonuses? It's feeling a lot like a pure combat form.

The only other slant I see is a bit of research, but then it becomes a direct competition to what I imagined for the Parchment Dragon, just way more combaty, so I'm kinda obliged to be against this unless I want to concede my idea entirely and this concept is definitely not convincing me to do that.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 25, 2020 at 3:02 PM, finished with 60 posts and 9 votes.

  • -[X] Part 3 - The Great Summoning: Summon as many Fiends as you possibly can to fuel the ritual.
    --[X] In preparation for accelerated Summoning, Viserys will create a series of ten temporary Demiplanes, one per day leading up to his and Lya's efforts. Each will be intended for one day of use before being Dispelled in order to prevent planar instability. With guidance from Lya and his own deep understanding of planar mechanics, Viserys will determine the best Plane other than the Material Plane to serve as a link for the Demiplanes, the plane from which the initial spell will be cast.
    ---[X] The Demiplanes will be created using Create Greater Demiplane.
    ----[X] Each Demiplane will be warded using a Forbiddance spell which encompasses the entire space, except for one small area that will be used for entry and exit, and the Summoning Circle itself. The entry/exit point will be blocked by a large stone block which we can move in and out of place as needed. The walls of each Demiplane will be coated in a thin sheet of transmuted lead for additional anti-Divination purposes, and the Mage's Private Sanctum and Lost Passage spells will be placed on the day of the Summoning.
    ----[X] The Summoning Circle will feature an inverted Magic Circle Against Evil along with a Hallow spell linked to a Dimensional Anchor effect to allow Summoning but to prevent the circle from being used as an entry or exit point from the Demiplane using dimensional travel magic or abilities.
    -----[X] The Summoning Circle will feature a Hardened Steel vat which will be used to contain an Advanced Stone Pudding identical to the one being used in the Snare this month.
    ----[X] Another Hallow spell linked to a Resist Energy (Acid) spell will protect everyone, our Summoned and Petrified Brimoraks included, from incidental Acid damage from the Stone Pudding.
    ----[X] A Shrink Item Chamber identical to the advanced model being used in the Snare will be shrink all of the Petrified Brimoraks for easy storage and transport.
    ---[X] As detailed here, once Summoning begins, Lya and Viserys should be able to Summon 394 Brimoraks per day per Demiplane, totaling 2,364 HD.
    ---[X] Companions and additional guards who will help oversee the Summoning will be determined later in the month when the process actually begins.
    ----[x] Summoners: Viserys, Lya (1st Body)
    ----[x] Guards: Dany, Richard, Vee (Free Action), Zherys, Waymar (Free Action), Malarys, Tyene (Free Action), Adamantine Golem (Monk 1)
 
@DragonParadox, note, that depending on how summoning goes, we may or may not continue summoning past the 10 Demiplanes/10 days outlined, making new ones.
Or Viserys may have made more than 10 demiplanes to begin with, since he had all the time from 1st to 11th of the month to do that.

Also note that everyone involved is Mindblanked sans the Golem (I think? I'm not sure on how Divination affects him off the top of my head, cant check the tiles atm)
 
I mean... force breathweapon? Knowing a whole lot of extra spells? Save bonuses? It's feeling a lot like a pure combat form.
Force was an idea I'm perfectly willing to cancel, extra-spells are basically the trademark of the Arcane Dragons and save-boni against magic are just another expression of the Abjuration school.

It would not be a something dedicated to to research as a species (individuals might be of course).

If I had to name a niche in the Imperium I would go for magical infrastructure and security. Their desire to keep their hoard and home save leads to them quickly aquiring skills that are useful in that direction, so if you need a home warded against burglars, or create an extradimensional hideout or Inquisition-safehouse, or enchant a building so it can last through the next Earthquake and Storm of Vengance combo, these are the guys who can do so for reasonable prices.

Combat abilities are of course present, but that is mostly because both a dragon and a mage will always have a lot of those.
 
Y'all, we are almost done with actions, although the remaining ones are quite big sans the few reports.

No one minds if, once we get through the "summoning shitliads of stuff on-screen"-part we:
1) get remaining few reports on actions
2) get slavers' Bay reports and stuff on infiltrating Lannisters
3) get economy/strategic/scholatum reports
4) get Ymeri-kicking seen as an interlude
And then continue with CoS?

Just checking.

---------------------------------------------------
@Azel, @Artemis1992, do we want to have 5 'core' True Dragon types in our Empire, like Bag'o'dicks and Timmie have in their rosters?
And every other type being... kinda there, like exotic dragons (Adamantine, Brine, etc) are 'kinda' under Baggie or Timmie's sway narratively, technically?

I'm not 100% sure by what categories we'd sort them narrative-wise in the Empire, beyond Myrkdreki (who are the Inquisition type and professional dickheads) anyway.

Are Mind Dragons the 'security' sort given their Mindsight stuff? Or are they the "Social" sort or somesuch, mixed with brain-healers?

I am confuse.
 
Y'all, we are almost done with actions, although the remaining ones are quite big sans the few reports.

No one minds if, once we get through the "summoning shitliads of stuff on-screen"-part we:
1) get remaining few reports on actions
2) get slavers' Bay reports and stuff on infiltrating Lannisters
3) get economy/strategic/scholatum reports
4) get Ymeri-kicking seen as an interlude
And then continue with CoS?

Just checking.

---------------------------------------------------
@Azel, @Artemis1992, do we want to have 5 'core' True Dragon types in our Empire, like Bag'o'dicks and Timmie have in their rosters?
And every other type being... kinda there, like exotic dragons (Adamantine, Brine, etc) are 'kinda' under Baggie or Timmie's sway narratively, technically?

I'm not 100% sure by what categories we'd sort them narrative-wise in the Empire, beyond Myrkdreki (who are the Inquisition type and professional dickheads) anyway.

Are Mind Dragons the 'security' sort given their Mindsight stuff? Or are they the "Social" sort or somesuch, mixed with brain-healers?

I am confuse.

All seems good to me, although personally I reiterate I don't care at all about Slaver's bay unless the report says it is now a hole in the ground.

Edit: Is there such a thing as mural Dragons. Only asking since well there are Grog dragons so why not. I mean as potential security/spy prevention. Anyone is going to expect the Dragon emperor to have murals and etchings of Dragons everywhere. What if they were aware, like a construct and could keep an eye out for infiltrators or even our own people getting into things they shouldn't.

Mostly to safeguard all important institutions as a quick call to arms when they spot something funky. Don't even know if this is a thing tho, and at work so can't look it up to see if it is. They don't even have to be dragons really, can we do constructs that work that way too?
 
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Doylist? We want a semblance of balance, and being able to make CR 15 with full casting is way too OP, even for us, considering there's no any "max number creatures made per month"-limits for our Fleshforges.
Watsonian? Shit goes haywire in the Fleshforge if someone tries to push too much magic into a creature, allowing at most some one-off projects, and not mass-production.


And we haven't had these years.
Would be plain weird if we could suddenly match all of these factions, now wouldn't it?

Thing is, for all we are totally OP insofar as DnD mechanics are concerned, we have a semblance of balance in the narrative - armies of the Efreeti, Devils, Demons, Daemons, etc. are vastly outnumbering us thanks to their off-plane nature, technically/literally infinitely more than what we have in some cases, and we aren't facing them in the "10 Balors spawns, you die"-numbers, because... reasons. Vague narrative reasons.

Trying to play the "I make infinite OP units! Now this other side that has infinite less-OP units can't do anything to me!"-game would kill the thread.
Plain and simple, there's no balancing this sort of stuff and DP would be obligated to drown us and do a party Empire wipe if the thread tried.
So what, are we always supposed to be the underdog, always be weaker than the empires. Yeah that's killing my enjoyment there.
Also fifth circle casting isn't very op anyway. Also it's not without limit, the monetary cost for a cr 15 is a lot even for us otherwise we could just spam those shadow dragon things.
 
So what, are we always supposed to be the underdog, always be weaker than the empires. Yeah that's killing my enjoyment there.
Also fifth circle casting isn't very op anyway. Also it's not without limit, the monetary cost for a cr 15 is a lot even for us otherwise we could just spam those shadow dragon things.
We cannot reasonably be nearly as powerful as the extraplanar Empires because they had millenia to get there.
Sure, Viserys and Co and grow in personal power beyond what Genie Empires have. Maybe close to an Archduke.

But it would be very, very setting-breaking if we somehow could match sheer numbers with "next to infinite" Devils or "literally infinite" Demons.

Give us time to take over all of Planetos.
Then we'd probably be good to siege City of Brass by ourselves.
As we are now we can only supply some critical and unique units to blowing it up, not do all of the work.

Give us the time (a century or five IC) to build up stuff on that taken-over-by-then Planetos.
We'd probably have enough forces to make another "blood war" with Devils or Demons, I.e. do a drawn-out pointless slugging match that will lead everyone to zero results sans lots of dead people.

The Forges are already OP beyond comparison. Getting as many units as we want st any moment, only stopped by the base cost?
It's far more powerful than what any faction sans the Squids has.
No need to wait, or have souls ready to transform into Outsiders.

Giving them ability to make stuff beyond CR 15 would be equivalent to printing Balors. And that's too much.
Full Casters are in similar vein. They are just too strong to print because they are casters. This is DnD.
 
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29,820 HD... I wonder if mages around the world will sense that ritual bomb go off?
Viserys, live via ritual spillover:
"
V is for Victory, a dragon's rightful due
I is for inevitable, as we all already knew
S is for Salvation, for everyone but you
E is for Elaborate, my plans in play for so long
R is for Revenge, come to roost at last
Y is for for You, the little shits I'll be stepping on
S is for Sovereign, my one and only call

My name is Viserys Targaryen, and I'd like to say ... hello"
 
We cannot reasonably be nearly as powerful as the extraplanar Empires because they had millenia to get there.
Sure, Viserys and Co and grow in personal power beyond what Genie Empires have. Maybe close to an Archduke.

But it would be very, very setting-breaking if we somehow could match sheer numbers with "next to infinite" Devils or "literally infinite" Demons.

Give us time to take over all of Planetos.
Then we'd probably be good to siege City of Brass by ourselves.
As we are now we can only supply some critical and unique units to blowing it up, not do all of the work.

Give us the time (a century or five IC) to build up stuff on that taken-over-by-then Planetos.
We'd probably have enough forces to make another "blood war" with Devils or Demons, I.e. do a drawn-out pointless slugging match that will lead everyone to zero results sans lots of dead people.

The Forges are already OP beyond comparison. Getting as many units as we want st any moment, only stopped by the base cost?
It's far more powerful than what any faction sans the Squids has.
No need to wait, or have souls ready to transform into Outsiders.

Giving them ability to make stuff beyond CR 15 would be equivalent to printing Balors. And that's too much.
I think its something we are going to have to disagree on. It's a logical use of an existing resources. It's an arbitrary nerf that I dislike. Hell if you want to limit it I would accept something like the dragons betraying us after creation since they are powerful enough to do it. That would at least give us a IC reason not to make it.
 
Viserys, live via ritual spillover:
"
V is for Victory, a dragon's rightful due
I is for inevitable, as we all already knew
S is for Salvation, for everyone but you
E is for Elaborate, my plans in play for so long
R is for Revenge, come to roost at last
Y is for for You, the little shits I'll be stepping on
S is for Sovereign, my one and only call

My name is Viserys Targaryen, and I'd like to say ... hello"
"Did you do it?"

Viserys: "...yes."

"What did it cost?"

Viserys: "29,820 HD."
 
Full Casters are in similar vein. They are just too strong to print because they are casters. This is DnD.
Just to note, the proposed Dragons are not Fullcasters in that sense, they are just a good bit more magic-y than most dragons of comparable age.

Our Greater Bloodclots, Verdant Phoenixes and some other fleshforge-productions are of comparable magical power and it all stays at or below level 5 spells.
 
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