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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
Hm... we are missing the youngest sister.

But good to know that they are about 20. Less of a hassle that way.
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I mean we already have them in chains... I don't see the point in executing them. I did push in the past to arrange marriages for single women, or sending men and boys to the Wall if we were that worried.
 
Azel said:
That... was not what I wanted to suggest?

I'm simply not keen on dealing with crying infants.
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The girls are 15 and 16, canon says born on 274/275 or after. I added 4 years to the minimum year because they were supposed to be unmarried by canon which would have been unusually old by Westerosi standards for unmarried noblewomen. Since that was not noted I made the change. They are still for all intents and purposes adults, just younger.
 
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Azel said:
That... was not what I wanted to suggest?

I'm simply not keen on dealing with crying infants.
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Artemis1992 said:
Goldfish would support this message.🐠

Really though, I wonder what we could do with them.
I see little value right now, unless Cerenna is secretly an archmage there's no big difference between capturing them now or during the invasion.
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Duesal said:
Babies and children are indeed the worst. @Goldfish has the right idea.
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And so spreads the Gospel of Goldfish...
 
How are we planning on dealing with those sort of 2nd tier Lannisters and Tywin loyalists? I thought we were destroying the family name and redistributing some land. But have we made any more concrete plans?
 
SeekerofLight said:
How are we planning on dealing with those sort of 2nd tier Lannisters and Tywin loyalists? I thought we were destroying the family name and redistributing some land. But have we made any more concrete plans?
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All of House Lannister will have their name and titles and lands stripped away. That includes the second tier, the third tier, etc. As for the Tywin loyalists, not all of them will be deposed, but there's definitely going to be a lot of land redistribution.
 
Duesal said:
All of House Lannister will have their name and titles and lands stripped away. That includes the second tier, the third tier, etc. As for the Tywin loyalists, not all of them will be deposed, but there's definitely going to be a lot of land redistribution.
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Are we sticking fully to the new Viseryan (tm) methods such as removing land giving the family the opportunity to reclaim their honour through service etc? Or will we be doing the whole sending people to the wall and forced marriages into loyalist families? Or a mix of the two?
 
SeekerofLight said:
Are we sticking fully to the new Viseryan (tm) methods such as removing land giving the family the opportunity to reclaim their honour through service etc? Or will we be doing the whole sending people to the wall and forced marriages into loyalist families? Or a mix of the two?
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I mean, personally I'd rather just leave the former Lannisters destitute with the option of working their way up as normal citizens if they take a new name. The more problematic people should be sent to the Wall or executed, though. Jeor can get better use out of them than us.
 
Duesal said:
I mean, personally I'd rather just leave the former Lannisters destitute with the option of working their way up as normal citizens if they take a new name. The more problematic people should be sent to the Wall or executed, though. Jeor can get better use out of them than us.
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That would be my preference as well. Plus, it fits with Viserys' own view on nobility, in my opinion. I.e. 'If you deserve your title you should be able to rise to the challenge'. Not to mention, they can act as magnets for any seditious plots that will inevitably show up.
 
SeekerofLight said:
That would be my preference as well. Plus, it fits with Viserys' own view on nobility, in my opinion. I.e. 'If you deserve your title you should be able to rise to the challenge'. Not to mention, they can act as magnets for any seditious plots that will inevitably show up.
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It's also an excellent political tool. Force the Lannisters to work in the muck until they voluntarily spit on their name and history.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
How much is their weight in IM? That is how much they will get.
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Give them all Lannister lands and keeps for either them or one of their relatives. Someone got to take those over.

tarrangar said:
Dumb idea, you shouldn't be more richly rewarded for services rendered because you're fat.
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I don't care if they are all 800 pounds and need to be rolled from place to place. Any killing of Lannisters is worth its weight in gold!

SeekerofLight said:
How are we planning on dealing with those sort of 2nd tier Lannisters and Tywin loyalists? I thought we were destroying the family name and redistributing some land. But have we made any more concrete plans?
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Death by Dragonfire!

Duesal said:
All of House Lannister will have their name and titles and lands stripped away. That includes the second tier, the third tier, etc. As for the Tywin loyalists, not all of them will be deposed, but there's definitely going to be a lot of land redistribution.
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Death by financial Dragonfire!

There isn't any problem with Lannisters that can't be solved by setting them on fire.

I mean they knowingly fight against Dragons, they are basically asking for it already.

[X] Crake
 
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SeekerofLight said:
Are we sticking fully to the new Viseryan (tm) methods such as removing land giving the family the opportunity to reclaim their honour through service etc? Or will we be doing the whole sending people to the wall and forced marriages into loyalist families? Or a mix of the two?
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The basic idea is thus:
- All Lannisters who actively resist the pacification and / or attack Imperial personal will be considered traitors and dealt with as such. (Which means they will shuffle off the mortal coil.)
- All Lannisters who hold titles and remain aligned with persons who do resist until such a time as their side is forced to capitulate, will loose all their fiefs and rights as nobles, and have to forswear the name and titles of House Lannister.
- All Lannisters who hold titles and either capitulate unprompted or actively support the pacification will be permitted to keep at least part of their titles and their status as nobles, but are still forced to forswear the names and all other titles of House Lannister before taking a new name. They will be considered new foundings of noble houses, not cadet branches of the House Lannister.
- Women married into other families will still be considered full part of said family, provided they openly forswear any claims to the titles and name of House Lannister.
-- If the women get divorced, they are treated the same as if they had been unmarried at the time of the pacification (see below).
- Married men can, if they so choose and the head of house their spouse agrees, claim the name of their spouses house and retain their nobility, while forswearing the name and titles of House Lannister, or be treated like the unmarried men.
- Unmarried men and women who are not covered by any of the above will either get the surname Hill or can forego bearing a surname entirely. They are no longer considered nobles and have to forswear all rights of that station, and the name and titles of House Lannister.
- Children will generally share the fate of their parents, with the exception of executions. Instead, they will become wards of the Imperium.
 
Azel said:
- All Lannisters who actively resist the pacification and / or attack Imperial personal will be considered traitors and dealt with as such. (Which means they will shuffle off the mortal coil.)
- All Lannisters who hold titles and remain aligned with persons who do resist until such a time as their side is forced to capitulate, will loose all their fiefs and rights as nobles, and have to forswear the name and titles of House Lannister.
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It's a bit difficult to differentiate between those two?
I mean, is gathering their people and marching to join their Warden of the Wests army (as common when called to war in a feudal system) already activly resisting, or do they still fall in the second category if they drop their banners once the least lucky part of their army gets obliterated by a Moonchaser?
 
No need to differentiate, if you are an adult, not a child, a Lannister and in any way did anything else other than falling to your knees saying they give up they get what they get.

Lannisters don't get any chances.
 
Artemis1992 said:
It's a bit difficult to differentiate between those two?
I mean, is gathering their people and marching to join their Warden of the Wests army (as common when called to war in a feudal system) already activly resisting, or do they still fall in the second category if they drop their banners once the least lucky part of their army gets obliterated by a Moonchaser?
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That's the grey area where we will have to judge people on a case by case base. I'm expecting a bunch of minor Lannisters to fall under this, such as the Lannisters of Lannisport Greyport.
 
Vote closed
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 15, 2020 at 4:44 PM, finished with 59 posts and 6 votes.
  • [X] You'll send someone to escort those political prisoners back to the Deep, you would rather Buttercup stay your "fun" persona most of the time. Not that you're opposed to mixing business with pleasure when there is a legitimate reason to do so, right now is not the time.
    -[X] Have a "Bard-off" with Tom of Sevenstreams to see once and for all who can obtain the most laughs. His floppy fishes to your rotten apples. And of course a duet of Fisherman's Daughter, to ensure there are no hard feelings after all is said and done.
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Duesal said:
What'd she end up doing there?
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She was almost Jon Stormcrown (the Dragonborn reincarnating into Jon Snow) wife, but then Jon betrayed the Lannisters to get some votes for a new High Septon. If he married Cerena he could have broken some kind of peace with the Lannisters, but the thread would have none of that, thus a mountain of salt.
 
ryuan said:
She also created a lot of salt in the SV's "A Dragon of the North".
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I remember that.
Duesal said:
What'd she end up doing there?
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Nothing bad. IIRC, she was actually an interesting character. She just served as a potential waifu for the MC, then got shat on by the voters in the thread. Thankfully, I mostly only followed story posts, so I didn't see much of the fallout, before or after.
 
ryuan said:
She was almost Jon Stormcrown (the Dragonborn reincarnating into Jon Snow) wife, but then Jon betrayed the Lannisters to get some votes for a new High Septon. If he married Cerena he could have broken some kind of peace with the Lannisters, but the thread would have none of that, thus a mountain of salt.
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Goldfish said:
I remember that.

Nothing bad. IIRC, she was actually an interesting character. She just served as a potential waifu for the MC, then got shat on by the voters in the thread. Thankfully, I mostly only followed story posts, so I didn't see much of the fallout, before or after.
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Shame, but eh. In here nothing stops Cerenna from making something of herself if she's willing to work for it. Where it matters we run off a meritocracy.
 
I would say most people with an education already have a far greater opportunity over their peers in the current environment, since that shaves off months of preparation for someone trying to hire people to meet expanding and exponential demand for literate workers.

OTOH, the only opportunity for someone to not have to claw and scrape their way back into the New Elite through a financial path would be magic, or marriage. It's hard to get a marriage to someone important if you don't have family assets/a fat dowry backing it up. Which leads back into learning magic and a exclusive skill, with only one of a rare bloodline, high intelligence or alternatively good intuition/risk management strategies allowing you to gain spellcasting levels.

Granted, if you're at least above average, you could probably become a Hedge Wizard and make a not-very-small sum. With careful preparation you could then buy land from the state/impoverished landowners and then after developing it sufficiently try to vie for a noble title.

Other than being a mage, it does seem like most other meritocratic paths to social advancement are tied down with multiple decades of concerted effort, but that's a pretty significant difference compared to ordinary medieval stasis.
 
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