Remove ads

The Path Unending (A Cultivation Quest)

Reader mode
Chronobreak said:
If this were a story set in the modern world, I would say indeed, begone creepy guy. I wouldn't kill him, because torturing animals is perfectly legal
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah... it legal to take animals and just start torturing them. That's kind of very illegal. And highly immoral. At least in my country, and I'd assume any sufficiently developed country. It's highly creepy to be thinking it's fine to experiment on animals in this manner, just because they're animals.

You argument that about creatures being raised to behave in a certain manner isn't fully thought out. While nurture does play a part in development, nature also has a fundamental impact. You can't make the argument that everything about how a creature behaves is based on nurture and totally disregard nature. An argument in that nature is the only determining factor would be wrong too.

This argument is also totally irreverent as to whether KZ should fight or not. If it wants to experiment on KZ in a similar manner to what it's doing to the goat, I couldn't care if it's due to nature of nurture. Kill it. This isn't a matter of cultural differences as you tried presenting it as.

As Ehbon pointed out your logic is inconsistent. You can't say that we must treat it as an equal, then in the same breath say we must make excuses for it due to its alien nature. There must be some consistency, and seeing as we're applying our human logic and morals to KZ's behaviour then it'll be our human morals being applied to his actions.

While it may be interesting to discuss the objective observations of an alien and it's morals, legitimately attempting to fabricate and apply twisted logic to justify the kukuni's behaviour isn't so much.
 
Molyneux said:
Yeah... it legal to take animals and just start torturing them. That's kind of very illegal. And highly immoral. At least in my country, and I'd assume any sufficiently developed country. It's highly creepy to be thinking it's fine to experiment on animals in this manner, just because they're animals.

You argument that about creatures being raised to behave in a certain manner isn't fully thought out. While nurture does play a part in development, nature also has a fundamental impact. You can't make the argument that everything about how a creature behaves is based on nurture and totally disregard nature. An argument in that nature is the only determining factor would be wrong too.

This argument is also totally irreverent as to whether KZ should fight or not. If it wants to experiment on KZ in a similar manner to what it's doing to the goat, I couldn't care if it's due to nature of nurture. Kill it. This isn't a matter of cultural differences as you tried presenting it as.

As Ehbon pointed out your logic is inconsistent. You can't say that we must treat it as an equal, then in the same breath say we must make excuses for it due to its alien nature. There must be some consistency, and seeing as we're applying our human logic and morals to KZ's behaviour then it'll be our human morals being applied to his actions.

While it may be interesting to discuss the objective observations of an alien and it's morals, legitimately attempting to fabricate and apply twisted logic to justify the kukuni's behaviour isn't so much.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Animal testing is a thing.

I'm not saying it's fine.

I'm saying it's acceptable.

I said that that the kukuni is neurodivergent. Nurture has absolutely no part of my argument. I am say that it is inhuman, but equal to a human. My argument is, indeed, entirely focused on nature. I think you confused my refutation that culture plays a part in my moral view as me saying that culture supports my moral view.

I'm also not arguing whether or not it should be allowed to experiment on Kong Zhi. I'm saying that it's actions do not devalue it's right to life, and that killing it is a spurious decision based on an assumption that the kukuni cannot be reasoned with, when there is a better solution available.

I do not like to repeat myself, but I will in this case. To my understanding, we do not have bodiless creatures of great intelligence and heightened emotions floating around on our planet. Which requires me to come up with a new moral framework.

It is an intelligent creature with an equal claim to the right of life as a human. It is inhuman, but that does not make it evil, worthy of punishment.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what it is doing. There are no excuses being made. The kukuni is a magic creature experimenting with its abilities on acceptable targets. If the kukuni was a human, existing in the same context as it does now, I would not be affronted, because it is simply a wizard doing wizard things.

I am being consistent.

You are not applying human logic and morals to Kong Zhi.

You are applying modern logic and morals to him.

Modern logic that does not, and has never applied.
 
Last edited:
Van Ropen said:
Historically, the human right to life has been shit on quite thoroughly and at length, so I don't get why you're going on about this being modern logic.

Beyond which, I don't see why condemnation of it's actions has to happen in a moral context at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not going about it with modern logic.

I am trying to establish a moral framework that is consistent with what we see in the story.

So that we can understand what exactly we are doing.

I'm not outraged that we're trying to kill the kukuni, I just want people to understand what it actually means and to not ignore the implications.
 
Chronobreak said:
I am trying to establish a moral framework that is consistent with what we see in the story.

So that we can understand what exactly we are doing.

I'm not outraged that we're trying to kill the kukuni, I just want people to understand what it actually means and to not ignore the implications.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Right, but there don't have to be deep implications about our actions.
Vesvius said:
Before you is a Blood-aspected Kukuni- and it wants you to join the wildlife at its feet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It can simply be reactive, especially in light of the above and in a setting with a well established understanding of the need for violence, what with the murderous spirit ghosts we leave behind when we die.


I might put more credence into this kind of thing if we were running away and coming back to hunt it down. But as things stand, I don't really feel we're making some grand statement about kukuni and non-human intelligences. We're just reacting to the sudden situation we're finding ourselves in, and saying "oh man fuck this situation in particular".
 
In fiction, we have plenty of excuse, in that this kukuni seems to be eager to see how Zhi's innards might be used for interior decoration right this second, making it very much self defense.

As questers, we're thinking about materials and rewards, but I think we can acknowledge that as players of the game we don't have to be perfect moral actors.
 
[X] Plan Don't Be Boring
-[X] This thing is massacring the local wildlife and turning whatever it's equivalent of eyes towards you. It needs to be killed with fire; you don't have fire, but you have shadow and acid and raw hunger. You will immediately activate the box and summon the Rakshsa. Once it is summon, you will damage it with Vitriolic Retort and Warhound's Cry at a distance, while ducking and dodging between the pile of innocent animals turned corpses to avoid its tendrils. While shooting, you will use your sixth sense to try to locate the center of this mass and aim towards that. To stop it from reaching you and to drive it farther from your presence if it comes near, you will use whatever you have: the Blooming Spear of the Auroch, all your pills, and anything else you can think of, and once you are out of anam and on your last legs, regretting that you didn't train your body more, you shall charge it, screaming your anger and displeasure at this thing's very existence every step of your way, because YOU AREN'T BORING.
 
Chronobreak said:
Animal testing is a thing.

I'm not saying it's fine.

I'm saying it's acceptable.

I said that that the kukuni is neurodivergent. Nurture has absolutely no part of my argument. I am say that it is inhuman, but equal to a human. My argument is, indeed, entirely focused on nature. I think you confused my refutation that culture plays a part in my moral view as me saying that culture supports my moral view.

I'm also not arguing whether or not it should be allowed to experiment on Kong Zhi. I'm saying that it's actions do not devalue it's right to life, and that killing it is a spurious decision based on an assumption that the kukuni cannot be reasoned with, when there is a better solution available.

I do not like to repeat myself, but I will in this case. To my understanding, we do not have bodiless creatures of great intelligence and heightened emotions floating around on our planet. Which requires me to come up with a new moral framework.

It is an intelligent creature with an equal claim to the right of life as a human. It is inhuman, but that does not make it evil, worthy of punishment.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what it is doing. There are no excuses being made. The kukuni is a magic creature experimenting with its abilities on acceptable targets. If the kukuni was a human, existing in the same context as it does now, I would not be affronted, because it is simply a wizard doing wizard things.

I am being consistent.

You are not applying human logic and morals to Kong Zhi.

You are applying modern logic and morals to him.

Modern logic that does not, and has never applied.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Animal testing is one thing. Animal torture is another. You specifically mentioned animal torture and that you viewed that as legal. Animal torture is not legal or acceptable.

While you are asserting that it's equal to a human I disagree. A human is able to think and act. This thing is driven by its simple impulses based on its anam type. Pigs outperform 3 yro human children on cognition tests and are smarter than most domestic animal, but we still eat them. The ability to simply think or have some form of intelligence doesn't make it a equal to a human.

If I were to agree with you that a kukuni has the same worth as a human then I'd have to argue that not all kukuni have the same value. The perfection one we saw wasn't a direct threat the the guy it killed until he proved a threat to it. It was eventually willing to engage and I could see working with that one. This one wants to perform body horror experiments. This one is not safe to be around. This one will be safer to everyone once killed.

Its like excusing a dog attacking little animals around it. At some point you've got to put it down, especially when it goes to attack a person. The dog obviously doesn't think it's doing anything wrong. It's the human who thinks so and it's the humans morals that trump the dogs. That doesn't make it modern logic or morals. KZ obviously doesn't think it's cool what the kukuni is doing and we've not seen others doing these actions so I'd say it's not culturally okay either. So it'd be a fair guess to say that in the setting the humans would view this display disfavourably.

All beings would believe they have a right to life. The actions performed make it a threat to KZ. As such KZ has a right to defend his right to life and maintain his own bodies integrity. If it wasn't such a threat it might be a good idea to attempt talking, but as it stands the only value we can place on its life is based on its actions.

It's irrelevant what creatures might or might not exist IRL. Your having to fabricate a morally relative framework to excuse it's actions. While it might be in it's nature to do what it's doing that doesn't change anything. It's in a parasites nature to do what it does, but I'll still worm my dog.

This doesn't have to be about morals or anything. It appears to be a threat andKZ is defending himself. That's it.
 
Last edited:
@Knight-Radiant
I think you should add another retreat condition. At the moment we don't know how strong it is. But I'd say that after 7 rounds of the Rakshasha KZ should have a pretty good idea and if it is much stronger than Zhi we should probably retreat while the box is active.

Also if we're reaching two stress boxes and used AMR, we should probably retreat at that point even if we have more than 5 anam.
 
Have a tally.
Adhoc vote count started by Enjou on Sep 19, 2020 at 10:01 AM, finished with 99 posts and 26 votes.
  • [X] Plan Keep Away
    -[X] Keep our distance, Send the Rakshasa in to keep it off us and use Vitriolic Retort to fire archer attacks.
    --[X] If the Kukuni seems to be drawing power/strength/etc from the "roots" imbedded in the flesh of the beast, try to disrupt it.
    ---[X] Switch to Warhound's Cry if minions enter the fray
    ---[X] Use Stallion's Enclosed Garden if we come under sensory attack
    ----[X] Take a Soldier's Requiem if Anam reaches 5 or lower
    -----[X] USe A Moments Respite if two stress boxes are filled
    ------[X] Take An Evening's Rest pill if two stress boxes are filled and A Moments Respite has already been used.
    -------[X] If Anam reaches 5 or lower and no Soldier's Requiem remain, attempt to retreat.
    [X] Plan Avoid Bad Touch Man
    -[X] Keep your distance, you've seen what this thing was doing to that poor goat and you aren't eager to follow in it's footsteps. While keeping distance in mind, use Warhound's Cry and activate the Dance at the Midnight Crossroads to keep your opponent and his potential monstrous aids busy.
    --[X] As soon as you have made distance and summoned the Rakshasa to keep it busy, take out the Vitriolic Retort and fire upon it from a distance.
    -[X] If you notice your opponent using a technique that affects your senses, shield them to the best of your ability using Stallion's Enclosed Garden and resume fighting.
    -[X] Should your anam levels dip below 1/3rd of your overall total, you will consume a Soldier's Requiem pill to replenish your stores and resume fighting.
    -[X] The first injury you take in this battle, should you take any, will be stored away using A Moment's Respite and you will resume fighting.
    -[X] Should you be wounded in excess of half of your overall health, you will take An Evening's Rest.
    --[X] Should you take your healing pill or notice your Rakshasa fading away, you will look for avenues of escape and initiate a fighting retreat.
    -[X] If at any point you notice more of those mutated beasts attempting to get the drop on you, you will hit them and the kukuni with Warhound's Cry and try to break their encirclement to continue fighting from a distance.
    [X] Plan Don't Be Boring
    -[X] This thing is massacring the local wildlife and turning whatever it's equivalent of eyes towards you. It needs to be killed with fire; you don't have fire, but you have shadow and acid and raw hunger. You will immediately activate the box and summon the Rakshsa. Once it is summon, you will damage it with Vitriolic Retort and Warhound's Cry at a distance, while ducking and dodging between the pile of innocent animals turned corpses to avoid its tendrils. While shooting, you will use your sixth sense to try to locate the center of this mass and aim towards that. To stop it from reaching you and to drive it farther from your presence, you will use whatever you have: the Blooming Spear of the Auroch, all your pills, and anything else you can think of, and once you are out of anam and on your last legs, regretting that you didn't train your body more, you shall charge it, because YOU AREN'T BORING.
    [x] Activate the box immediately then use vitriolic retort from afar and then dodge use hummingbird's dance if it tries to strike at you
    [X] Disable our senses of smell and taste using our new tech, grapple with it and use our knowledge of Craft (Weaving) to bind the blood vessels together.
    [X] Scream at it
    -[x] Use Warhounds Cry Immedietly as it's reaching towards you, jump back and use the box while it's disoriented. Then have the Rakshasha go in Melee while we take pot shots with vitriolic retort. Don't engage in melee ourselves unless we see an opening. Use Warhounds cry again when Rakshasha looks like it's getting overwhelmed.
    [X] Plan Cleanse and Purify
    - [X] Open combat with the Dance. The Rakshasa should prioritize cutting apart the vessels connecting it to the bodies and isolating its central mass.
    - [X] Take shots from range with Vitriolic Retort, aiming for the following targets: 1) wounds opened by the Rakshasa to inject acid into its vessels and hopefully impair its regeneration 2) any bodies connected to it that it appears to be drawing from or preparing to use.
    - [X] Engage with the Spear only as a last resort, while using Warhound's Cry if it starts creating a number of minions.
    - [X] Keep it away from any large piles of blood/gore; it may be able to use those to regenerate or to create combat homunculi.
    - [X] If the Dance ends and the enemy is still up, run. Use Warhound's Cry as necessary to clear the way.
    - [X] Use every pill we have as needed.
    [X] Plan Don't Be Boring
    -[X] This thing is massacring the local wildlife and turning whatever it's equivalent of eyes towards you. It needs to be killed with fire; you don't have fire, but you have shadow and acid and raw hunger. You will immediately activate the box and summon the Rakshsa. Once it is summon, you will damage it with Vitriolic Retort and Warhound's Cry at a distance, while ducking and dodging between the pile of innocent animals turned corpses to avoid its tendrils. While shooting, you will use your sixth sense to try to locate the center of this mass and aim towards that. To stop it from reaching you and to drive it farther from your presence if it comes near, you will use whatever you have: the Blooming Spear of the Auroch, all your pills, and anything else you can think of, and once you are out of anam and on your last legs, regretting that you didn't train your body more, you shall charge it, screaming your anger and displeasure at this thing's very existence every step of your way, because YOU AREN'T BORING.
Click to expand...
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top