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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
[X] Duesal

It's good for our economy and it's good for the PR of our Voices? Count me in!
Our Voices will always be a weak, baby fig leaf of a democracy stapled onto a feudal autocracy. Increasing the PR, legitimacy and symbolic influence of Voices is IMO a good long term project : it'll make Lords less likely to completely ignore them, and it'll give their words more weight during negotiations.
We'll never be anything near democratic though. We're putting far too much symbolic importance on the whole "Imperium" led by a Chosen autocrat for that to work.
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Even with this it's really just a fig leaf for the citizens to vie for influence outside of the bureaucracy. Each governor has the right to completely ignore his Voices if they feel it necessary.

If the citizens want actual power and prestige they've got to join the bureaucracy and rise on their own merit.
 
Azel said:
That can be ended at will, but once that is done, the colony uses it's own scores instead of those of Vargo. Right now, it's a loose association of people kept together by his force of personality and switching that to self-governance should not be done before the local institutions are in place.
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That part I understood, but I see no actions to make those institutions take hold either. It has been sitting as a colony for a long while.

Were we playing badly?
 
Duesal said:
We can easily afford this.
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Sometimes I still can't process how rich we've become. I still remember the days when every penny was precious and every chance at loot was taken because we needed it to survive and not just because we wanted to stripmine the universe for daring to be shiny in inefficient ways.

I mean we literally pulled the goddamn Dragon-blooded version of The Jeffersons.
 
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Evaunit02mark1 said:
Sometimes I still can process how rich we've become. I still remember the days when every penny was precious and every chance at loot was taken because we needed it to survive and not just because we wanted to stripmine the universe for daring to be shiny in inefficient ways.

I mean we literally pulled the goddamn Dragon-blooded version of The Jeffersons.
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Our poverty was so collectively scarring... :o
 
[X] Plan Manifest Destiny
-[X] Give them 20,000 IM in aid and assign a Lyre of Building there next month. This includes a small team of city planners and architects to help the planning. The expanded budget and the Lyre will be used to build a harbor, proper bridges and roads connecting the new city to the nearest highways and of course a sanitation system that is up to Imperial standards. All of this should greatly help the city to attract more settlers.
-[X] Furthermore, record the efforts there for the Imperial Times and Mirrorvision newsreel, putting weight on this being a communal effort by Imperial citizens, made possible and aided by the enlightened rule of Viserys Targaryen and the institutions he created. Frame the event as formerly oppressed and terrorized people looking for a brighter future by building a new society on empty land.
-[X] Put also some more reports about the colonization efforts in Sarnor, Draconys and Sothoryos into the Mirrorvision, and the efforts to vitalize formerly poor areas of the Imperium, emphasizing the same themes of collectivism and Manifest Destiny under the auspices of a powerful and benevolent state.
-[X] Also add an interview with Moonsong, where she tells about the Moonchasers latest journey into the sky and her hopes to make a trip to the namegiver of her and her vessel.
-[X] Also commission a play series about these themes, picking the parts from the news stories that had the best resonance with the audience to tailor an engaging tale about a fictional colony.
 
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Tomcost said:
That part I understood, but I see no actions to make those institutions take hold either. It has been sitting as a colony for a long while.

Were we playing badly?
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You're asking why a little colony of less than 30,000 people is still irrelevant over a year later?

Because we haven't been using full-on Encourage Immigration actions or using distant province or Hero actions to build it up.

We can change that I guess, now that it's actually worth the investment (not surrounded by armies of hostile undead).
 
Duesal said:
Even with this it's really just a fig leaf for the citizens to vie for influence outside of the bureaucracy. Each governor has the right to completely ignore his Voices if they feel it necessary.

If the citizens want actual power and prestige they've got to join the bureaucracy and rise on their own merit.
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What I meant is that sometimes, even though you have the legal right to do the thing doesn't mean it's socially, culturally or politically convenient to do the thing.
Hence why I believe that boosting the profile, legitimacy and PR of Voices will slowly make them harder to ignore in the long run.
 
Crake said:
You're asking why a little colony of less than 30,000 people is still irrelevant over a year later?

Because we haven't been using full-on Encourage Immigration actions or using distant province or Hero actions to build it up.

We can change that I guess, now that it's actually worth the investment (not surrounded by armies of hostile undead).
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I was more asking how can a nation even expand if it ony has a single action? It uses one to colonize, and then locks itself on not being able to do shit, needing an outside force to help give an actual score to the province before dropping the colonization action.
 
As it stands, Voices are representatives without legislative powers, but they can do all of the groundwork and make issues visible on behalf of their constituents. And if a issue is repeatedly raised on the floor and we ultimately choose to do nothing about it, that's a failing on our part.
 
Tomcost said:
I was more asking how can a nation even expand if it ony has a single action? It uses one to colonize, and then locks itself on not being able to do shit, needing an outside force to help give an actual score to the province before dropping the colonization action.
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It needs outside help for that. The only way for a colony to establish itself without aid is by having multiple hero-units collaborating on the effort.
 
Tomcost said:
I was more asking how can a nation even expand if it ony has a single action? It uses one to colonize, and then locks itself on not being able to do shit, needing an outside force to help give an actual score to the province before dropping the colonization action.
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It can't. That's the point of a colony. A parent province attributes its scores to it, and then if you choose to use that parent province's actions on it, you can use them to expand it.

Or you can send Hero units at it until shit gets done.

Colonies are reliant on outside help to develop toward self sufficiency. Without it, they will die.
 
Crake said:
As it stands, Voices are representatives without legislative powers, but they can do all of the groundwork and make issues visible on behalf of their constituents. And if a issue is repeatedly raised on the floor and we ultimately choose to do nothing about it, that's a failing on our part.
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Well, they can pass legislation on the matter. It just needs the local lords / governors approval to actually become law.
So you need to actively obstruct their efforts, which is one of those things that should ring alarm bells higher up in the hierarchy.

Especially since 2/3rds of the Voices are, by design and definition, Apparatschiks.
 
Azel said:
Well, they can pass legislation on the matter. It just needs the local lords / governors approval to actually become law.
So you need to actively obstruct their efforts, which is one of those things that should ring alarm bells higher up in the hierarchy.

Especially since 2/3rds of the Voices are, by design and definition, Apparatschiks.
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Right, that's what I meant...

Huh, I guess this system is pretty deliberately recursive.
 
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