Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
Speed53066 said:
[X] Goldfish

We do have a flesh forge, so getting new breading population should be a heck of a lot easier all things considered.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That creates all sorts of complications though; mostly in how we raise them and what age we make them at.

I know we've sort of down it before, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of making fully formed physically adult creatures that are members of mortal species. Dragons are a grey area because they live for so long, but a Minotaur would basically have the better part of two decades shaved off a sixty to eighty year lifespan.
 
Last edited:
Goldfish said:
I've updated my plan to include Richard's new Mythic rank, ya'll.

Right now it has Fleet Warrior plugged in for his new Path ability, but I've also got an option shown for making Oathkeeper a Legendary Weapon instead. I think I prefer Fleet Warrior most, but I wouldn't be upset by going with Legendary Weapon instead.

We don't have to use either option if ya'll would prefer something different, and these aren't the only options for Legendary Weapon powers.

[] Richard's Third Mythic Rank
-[] Mythic Feat: Paragon (Mythic)
-[] Mythic Path Ability:
--[] Fleet Warrior (Ex): When making a full attack, you can move up to your speed either before or after your attacks. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

--[] Legendary Item (Ex): You gain a legendary item. This item grants a number of abilities equal to your tier (maximum 3).
---[] Oathkeeper's Legendary Powers:
----[] Powerful: An item with this ability has two additional uses of legendary power per day.
----[] Unstoppable Strike: The wielder can expend one use of legendary power when attacking to make the attack against touch AC. If she instead expends two uses of legendary power, the weapon also bypasses any deflection bonus to AC the target has.
----[] Foe-Biting: When this item deals damage, its user can use mythic power to double the total amount of damage it deals. If the attack is a normal attack, the bearer can expend one use of legendary power to double the total amount of damage. If the attack is a confirmed critical hit, the bearer must instead expend two uses of legendary power to double the total damage. Damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) and precision-based damage are also doubled.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd prefer leaving Legendary Item for after Lya gets her third Mythic Rank and can upgrade Oathkeeper from a Minor Artifact to a Major Artifact.

Also I just love the idea of ultra fast Ser Richard, so I'm biased heavily towards Fleet Warrior.

BronzeTongue said:
That creates all sorts of compliments though; mostly in how we raise them and what age we make them at.

I know we've sort of down it before, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of making fully formed physically adult creatures that are members of mortal species. Dragons are a grey area because they live for so long, but a Minotaur would basically have a the better part of two decades shaved off a sixty to eighty year lifespan.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The original proposal was to Flesh Forge younglings and babies so that the Minotaurs aren't so critically endangered and to reduce the complications of inbreeding from such a tiny population. A few adults can be Flesh Forged as well, but they're not going to be the majority.
 
Last edited:
Duesal said:
The original proposal was to Flesh Forge younglings and babies so that the Minotaurs aren't so critically endangered and to reduce the complications of inbreeding from such a tiny population. A few adults can be Flesh Forged as well, but they're not going to be the majority.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why bother with the middle man in that case? We have Orphanages to spare and most minotaurs who want kids can have them.
 
Duesal said:
I'd prefer leaving Legendary Item for after Lya gets her third Mythic Rank and can upgrade Oathkeeper from a Minor Artifact to a Major Artifact.

Also I just love the idea of ultra fast Ser Richard, so I'm biased heavily towards Fleet Warrior.


The original proposal was to Flesh Forge younglings and babies so that the Minotaurs aren't so critically endangered and to reduce the complications of inbreeding from such a tiny population. A few adults can be Flesh Forged as well, but they're not going to be the majority.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are issues with that too, though I was mostly referring to the idea of padding out our loss of useful Minotaur npcs with flesh forged additions.

In the case of just adding babies we have to pick between making them at a rate that matches what they would normally have or to exceed it. In the first case we can up genetic diversity but not stop them from being critically endangered, in the second we monopolize more and more of the adults time and decrease the quality of parenting any one of the kids receives.

In both scenarios we won't see a benefit in the scope of the quest, so the temptation to go with the direct route gets stronger.

If we do forge even a small number of adults we should look into something to compensate for it, either directly or as a consolation prize.
 
Artemis1992 said:
[X] Goldfish

@DragonParadox
What about Namaaru's losses?
They should propably be on the lower end due to her mythic ability protecting her people, but she likely still lost a lot.

I hope she still has the forces to pacify Sarnor over the next months.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

She burned though all her lesser dead, because they were going to be a political liability after the campaign anyway and otherwise got 3.5% losses to the greater dead with most of them being chariots.
 
zxzx24 said:
Why bother with the middle man in that case? We have Orphanages to spare and most minotaurs who want kids can have them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's less about the glowing joys of parenthood and more about the species being critically endangered. A minotaur who wants to adopt a random human orphan is already free to do so.
BronzeTongue said:
There are issues with that too, though I was mostly referring to the idea of padding out our loss of useful Minotaur npcs with flesh forged additions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think you're misunderstanding the intent there, dude. It wasn't to pad out our losses to make endless footsoldiers, it was purely suggested to preserve the population since they're endagered
BronzeTongue said:
In the case of just adding babies we have to pick between making them at a rate that matches what they would normally have or to exceed it. In the first case we can up genetic diversity but not stop them from being critically endangered, in the second we monopolize more and more of the adults time and decrease the quality of parenting any one of the kids receives.

In both scenarios we won't see a benefit in the scope of the quest, so the temptation to go with the direct route gets stronger.

If we do forge even a small number of adults we should look into something to compensate for it, either directly or as a consolation prize.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We're not going to see a benefit in the scope of the quest, no, but we've always played the long game. We do plenty of things we're not going to see the direct benefit of.

Flesh Forging more minotaurs to avoid the complications of inbreeding is just one of those choices.

As for your concerns with making adult minotaurs, I disagree with the premise. When we forge a soul, we're drawing a volunteer from the Green Dream to be shaped for a new life under the sun. I can only assume you view being born as a minotaur as something inferior since you're talking about consolation prizes, but rest assured that Flesh Forged creatures are only expected to offer a few years of service to pay for the cost of their body before they're free to either resign and take up another job or renew their contract.
 
Duesal said:
As for your concerns with making adult minotaurs, I disagree with the premise. When we forge a soul, we're drawing a volunteer from the Green Dream to be shaped for a new life under the sun. I can only assume you view being born as a minotaur as something inferior since you're talking about consolation prizes, but rest assured that Flesh Forged creatures are only expected to offer a few years of service to pay for the cost of their body before they're free to either resign and take up another job or renew their contract.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I thought the green dream spirits thing only applies to making things like leshies in the fungus forge, not stuff in the actual flesh forge.

To be clear on the other bit, I don't view being a Minotaur as being a bad thing, I view being born missing a little less than a quarter of your natural lifespan as one. That's why I suggested consolation prizes for the ones "born" as adults and not for the children.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I thought the green dream spirits thing only applies to making things like leshies in the fungus forge, not stuff in the actual flesh forge.

To be clear on the other bit, I don't view being a Minotaur as being a bad thing, I view being born missing a little less than a quarter of your natural lifespan as one. That's why I suggested consolation prizes for the ones "born" as adults and not for the children.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think it's a bit of both. For adults dragons there's a dreaming process where they tap into Dragon Dreams to get a more mature mentality and deeper spell lore. But other creatures don't have the benefit of dragon dreams, so you're far more likely to just get an already adult volunteer from the Green Dream who doesn't mind whatever body we forged.

Regarding the compensation bit, that makes more sense, though I'm not sure it works like that. Flesh Forged bodies are brand new with little in the way of true aging. Would a Minotaur have to live out until actual adulthood before they start aging again?
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
She burned though all her lesser dead, because they were going to be a political liability after the campaign anyway and otherwise got 3.5% losses to the greater dead with most of them being chariots.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's... kinda cold, but not unreasonable.

They propably could have been laid to rest without greater problems, but at least it's out of the way now.
 
Archibald said:
@Goldfish Is there any reason you're not fixing the elemental wyrmlings too?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's a matter of economics. A new Herald costs 6,000 IM to enchant, while a new Elemental Wyrmling costs 400 IM.

Using the Memory of Function effect costs 2,000 IM each time it's activated. That makes using it on Heralds well worth the expense, but definitely not for the Elemental Wyrmlings. We can make 17 new ones for less than the cost of restoring 4 via Memory of Function.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I thought the green dream spirits thing only applies to making things like leshies in the fungus forge, not stuff in the actual flesh forge.

To be clear on the other bit, I don't view being a Minotaur as being a bad thing, I view being born missing a little less than a quarter of your natural lifespan as one. That's why I suggested consolation prizes for the ones "born" as adults and not for the children.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nope, all of our sentient servitors are getting animated spirits from the Green Dream, Flesh or Fungal Forged, except for Dragons, who get their start and instinctive knowledge from the Dragon Dreams.
 
Artemis1992 said:
That's... kinda cold, but not unreasonable.

They propably could have been laid to rest without greater problems, but at least it's out of the way now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lesser undead are largely beneath even animals in terms of mental and emotional capacity right? They have more in common with a roomba than they do with the people they resemble. It would have been nice to help the ones with an actual int score grow or rest a little, but I think it's fair to say that's less like saving people and more like making new ones. In light of that I don't really hold treating them as disposable against her.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Lesser undead are largely beneath even animals in terms of mental and emotional capacity right? They have more in common with a roomba than they do with the people they resemble. It would have been nice to help the ones with an actual int score grow or rest a little, but I think it's fair to say that's less like saving people and more like making new ones. In light of that I don't really hold treating them as disposable against her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Evil soulless Roombas which want to destroy all life...

...so probably not that different than a regular Roomba? 🤖
 
BronzeTongue said:
Lesser undead are largely beneath even animals in terms of mental and emotional capacity right? They have more in common with a roomba than they do with the people they resemble. It would have been nice to help the ones with an actual int score grow or rest a little, but I think it's fair to say that's less like saving people and more like making new ones. In light of that I don't really hold treating them as disposable against her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's less about the skeletons they are and more about the people they were.

A ruler caring about tradition would have tried to see them buried as fitting for their culture, not shattered on the field of battle.
It was not an evil choice, or even a questionable one in my view of morals, but it was still one that speaks of little emotional attachement to impractical things.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top