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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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AbeoLogos said:
Alright, I'm not a big fan of this outcome. It seems likely to be mostly similar to the default option, but taking a chunk out of the tension of our mutual mystery and the frantic tone of the default, without bringing anything new to the table to make up for it.

It just seems impatient and premature to me. We'll have to see, I guess.



Here's my point: the lady talked about "lineage". If Ling Qi says "actually, I'm a student of this spirit" then that either has to meet whatever this woman's standards are for "lineage", or it doesn't. If she decides to help us, then it almost certainly means that it does meet meet those standards. If it doesn't meet her standards then... things get extremely uncertain.

And basically? This was a gamble we never needed to take at this moment. She seemed happy to approach us on the merits of her suspicion. This is potentially an unforced error on our part. And if she later showed dissatisfaction with our "lineage", in the now impossible case we don't go spilling the beans, I think that would be an interesting opportunity to engage with her and mull through various cultural differences.

My concern is with us pushing the question/exploration forwards to our first significant interaction, when we don't have the freedom to engage her on the subject at length, to smooth out friction. There's no real second chance here. And because @yrsillar is a) nice and b) already suffered through an aborted ice lady plot point once, I don't think there's a real possibility that the question of Zeqing or Ling Qi's legitimacy as her student can have any other answer than "nah, it's fine" if we're bringing it up now. Not when so much of the future rides on the high stakes present.

I obviously don't know what yrsillar had planned as far as that aspect of ice lady culture goes, but that's not relevant to my discomfort with trimming down his options/flexibility through awkward meta-narrative restraints forced by a write-in, whether purposeful or otherwise. Like, it's similar to the issues I had with Liao Zhu's ice lady interlude severely restricting how yrsillar could introduce the ice ladies to the actual narrative. It's better to not engage with issues or subjects that we're not actually going to be engaging with right now; the winning vote brings up our relationship with Zeqing at a time/place we can't engage with the implications. It just creates narrative baggage and headaches down the line.
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Okay, supposing your speculation is accurate, then what you're suggesting is that we just kick the can of Elsa's question about lineage down the road, and she might not be very pleased about having potentially wasted her time only to find out that Ling Qi was just a student of Zeqing.

Like I said before, I think you're building too extensive an idea of Elsa's character and what's going to happen, and pinning a lot of your argument on that supposition. It's difficult to discuss hypotheticals about a vote when their support in the text is tenuous at best, and basically non-existent at worst.

edit; the vote's over, so I don't know if there's much point in continuing this. It's not likely going to affect or change anything.
 
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Jensaarai said:
Okay, supposing your speculation is accurate, then what you're suggesting is that we just kick the can of Elsa's question about lineage down the road, and she might not be very pleased about having potentially wasted her time only to find out that Ling Qi was just a student of Zeqing.

Like I said before, I think you're building too extensive an idea of Elsa's character and what's going to happen, and pinning a lot of your argument on that supposition. It's difficult to discuss hypotheticals about a vote when their support in the text is tenuous at best, and basically non-existent at worst.

edit; the vote's over, so I don't know if there's much point in continuing this. It's not likely going to affect or change anything.
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My issue is half with what could happen and whether it's worth the risk, and half with meta-narrative constraints forcing a certain outcome, outside the logic of in-character interaction. 's fine if people don't want to engage with the latter, I admit it's abstract.

But yes, I would much prefer kicking that question down the road, since we don't have time to get into it here, and if the answer we give isn't to her liking, then the immediate consequences are greater than the later consequences are likely to be. Because we don't have the time or freedom to mitigate ruffled feathers right now. That's the heart of my mundane, grounded concern.

edit; yrsillar sometimes reads and reacts to incredibly fussy whining when updooting, so who knows it might. I can only try.

WalkingMoon said:
I am still really worrying that we didn't take the route where we get an actual reaction from our gown that we could interact with, the tailor said its very jealous so I think we maybe had the chance to quell/solve a problem that will only get worse the more mature the spirit gets.
We just have to look at Cai's gown, to know how much trouble a rebellious spirit gown can make you.

So far we completely neglected the gown to a degree that we didn't even try out or interact with to see what it can do and only the tailor told us it can change forms, so far we didn't even comb it once, that spirit is really not gonna help us in the future if we continue to neglect it and not care for it.
Also that it ate something we sleep in aka tastes/smells like us should be extremely telling that It could get really bad in the future when it matures and still is really jealous, it could try to constantly consume us in its jealousy, just like cai's gown tries to control her and cai has to fight it constantly, that is not something I want to see and could have a bad influence in the future.
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We are getting a new talisman this turn, which yrsillar has suggested would involve the guy who made our robe. We should be discussing our robe, and its reactions to our 3 day absence, a little more in detail then.

Other stuff we're doing this month is Hanyi's concert/debut with Bao Qian and gardening with Zhengui. Can't think of anything else right at this moment. Maybe something related to Wang Chao? The training should still be going on in the background, but no guarantee it makes it to the fore.
 
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AbeoLogos said:
My issue is half with what could happen and whether it's worth the risk, and half with meta-narrative constraints forcing a certain outcome, outside the logic of in-character interaction. 's fine if people don't want to engage with the latter, I admit it's abstract.

But yes, I would much prefer kicking that question down the road, since we don't have time to get into it here, and if the answer we give isn't to her liking, then the immediate consequences are greater than the later consequences are likely to be. Because we don't have the time or freedom to mitigate ruffled feathers right now. That's the heart of my mundane, grounded concern.

edit; yrsillar sometimes reads and reacts to incredibly fussy whining when updooting, so who knows it might. I can only try.
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Now we're getting into something I don't particularly like, which is—and I'm almost certain I've said this to you before—you trying to influence or change how and what yrsillar writes, completely side-stepping or ignoring the rest of the thread. Probably my biggest issue is that you keep trying this kind of thing, and have gotten belligerent about your opinion and views on the story before.

I don't know what your concerns on meta-narratives and shit are about, but I only seem to recall you specifically bringing them up in the thread, so I don't think they're as big of a problem as you make them out to be, since the thread at large hardly ever seems to engage with that topic of discussion.
 
Jensaarai said:
Now we're getting into something I don't particularly like, which is—and I'm almost certain I've said this to you before—you trying to influence or change how and what yrsillar writes, completely side-stepping or ignoring the rest of the thread. Probably my biggest issue is that you keep trying this kind of thing, and have gotten belligerent about your opinion and views on the story before.
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I read it as literally the opposite? That the winning writein basically serves to influence/change how and what yrsillar writes.
 
Jensaarai said:
Now we're getting into something I don't particularly like, which is—and I'm almost certain I've said this to you before—you trying to influence or change how and what yrsillar writes, completely side-stepping or ignoring the rest of the thread. Probably my biggest issue is that you keep trying this kind of thing, and have gotten belligerent about your opinion and views on the story before.

I don't know what your concerns on meta-narratives and shit are about, but I only seem to recall you specifically bringing them up in the thread, so I don't think they're as big of a problem as you make them out to be, since the thread at large hardly ever seems to engage with that topic of discussion.
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I mean, I described what my concerns on meta-narratives and shit are about. It's not some secret; they're plainly out in the open in my posts. Readability is another issue. Other people do engage in similar analysis fairly frequently, they just tend to use different, probably less dumb, terms for it.

And I'm actually not trying to influence what or how yrsillar writes, really. What I'm doing is running analysis that could potentially highlight questions or problems that should naturally arise from interacting pieces within the narrative that yrsillar can answer, ignore, defer, avoid, or lean into as he deems fit. Nobody likes running into narrative deadends- which is why I invest the effort i do in trying to identify them before we're in them. My overriding goal is to avoid things that force him into a(n unwanted) corner.
 
reignonyrparade said:
I read it as literally the opposite? That the winning writein basically serves to influence/change how and what yrsillar writes.
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I think that is the point of a write in? Like a write in offer is the author saying 'pitch me something to work with'. I highly doubt it would have any affect on the larger narrative though. It's just going change how he writes the next chapter.
 
reignonyrparade said:
I read it as literally the opposite? That the winning writein basically serves to influence/change how and what yrsillar writes.
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Did the vote get a majority win in the thread, and did yrsillar pre-approve it on Discord? If yes, then it's nothing like what I was talking about.
AbeoLogos said:
I mean, I described what my concerns on meta-narratives and shit are about. It's not some secret; they're plainly out in the open in my posts. Readability is another issue. Other people do engage in similar analysis fairly frequently, they just tend to use different, probably less dumb, terms for it.

And I'm actually not trying to influence what or how yrsillar writes, really. What I'm doing is running analysis that could potentially highlight questions or problems that should naturally arise from interacting pieces within the narrative that yrsillar can answer, ignore, defer, avoid, or lean into as he deems fit. Nobody likes running into narrative deadends- which is why I invest the effort i do in trying to identify them before we're in them. My overriding goal is to avoid things that force him into a(n unwanted) corner.
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And I'm saying that your goal of changing narratives you perceive to be dead ends is trying to influence the author. You've taken it upon yourself to solve a problem that only you seem to see, and I'm not comfortable with you at the helm of that 'project.'
 
*whistle*

Gone for a bit, and 3-4 pages of discussion goes by

seems like the write-in won

The benefit I saw in the write-in is that it gives more initiative towards the g8 ice lady instead of Ling Qi (which what the other option would've done).

While I agree with some of the others that the phrasing of the default may not be as bad as it seems, there's an ambiguity in the air in that we don't exactly know what the ice lady wants aside from the few words and gestures we were able to pick out from her, which the purpose of the write-In supposedly is since it comes out as an offer rather than a rush trade. (Though this is assuming it doesn't come out in the same flow as the default. Up to Yrs)

Granted, I do agree with @AbeoLogos that the name dropping does take out some of the tension and mystery that could've awed us in a later update.
Like, this may not be the most appropriate of times to appreciate Ice lady's reaction to the name-drop when they are in the middle of battle is what I believe he's concerned about, which is a fair concern
 
Jensaarai said:
Did the vote get a majority win in the thread, and did yrsillar pre-approve it on Discord? If yes, then it's nothing like what I was talking about.

And I'm saying that your goal of changing narratives you perceive to be dead ends is trying to influence the author. You've taken it upon yourself to solve a problem that only you seem to see, and I'm not comfortable with you at the helm of that 'project.'
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Too bad, lol.

MORE SERIOUSLY, while I appreciate your concerns, and I do in fact appreciate your concerns, they're grounded in an understanding of my motives and activities which doesn't reflect reality. Which I can't slash won't do anything about, so we're at an impasse where you're powerless to stop me from behaviour I wouldn't be inclined to cease even if I were actually doing it, which I'm not.

My goal is making observations for other people to read and consider. That's not something I'm going to stop.
 
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AbeoLogos said:
Too bad, lol.
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Fine, then don't be surprised if I keep disagreeing with your assumptions and propositions whenever you pop up. You've argued several different times in the last few updates, but have you actually been right in any of your perceived concerns and worries about "the narrative" or "the author" or "the writing"?

I suppose we'll see what the next update shows.
 
Jensaarai said:
Fine, then don't be surprised if I keep disagreeing with your assumptions and propositions whenever you pop up. You've argued several different times in the last few updates, but have you actually been right in any of your perceived concerns and worries about "the narrative" or "the author" or "the writing"?

I suppose we'll see what the next update shows.
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Seriously? Your proposal is basically that I stop assuming or proposing anything. Your implied ultimatum here is that I stop doing things you don't like, like engaging with the thread or theory crafting in general, or else. Yes, I'm not going to be surprised by you choosing to harass me in the future. You're flat out saying you will if I don't stop participating in the thread. This isn't a reasonable request; I'm not surprised to face a vendetta from someone making it.

I promise, I will not be surprised.
 
I still worry about that we didn't take the route where we get an actual reaction from our gown that we could interact with, the tailor said its very jealous so I think we maybe had the chance to quell/solve a problem that will only get worse the more mature the spirit gets.
We just have to look at Cai's gown, to know how much trouble a rebellious spirit gown can make you.

We completely neglected the gown up until now to a degree that we didn't even try it out or interact with it to see what it can do and only the tailor told us it can change forms, so far we didn't even comb it once, that spirit is really not gonna help us down the road if we continue to neglect it and not care for it.
Also that it ate something we sleep in aka tastes/smells like us should be extremely telling that It could get really bad in the future when it matures and still is that really jealous, it could try to constantly consume us in its jealousy, just like cai's gown tries to control her and cai has to fight it constantly, that is not something I want to see and could have a bad influence in the future.
 
AbeoLogos said:
Seriously? Your proposal is basically that I stop assuming or proposing anything. Your implied ultimatum here is that I stop doing things you don't like, like engaging with the thread or theory crafting in general, or else. Yes, I'm not going to be surprised by you choosing to harass me in the future. You're flat out saying you will if I don't stop participating in the thread. This isn't a reasonable request; I'm not surprised to face a vendetta from someone making it.

I promise, I will not be surprised.
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More that you dig in on an idea that you've thought up, regardless if it's actually feasible or even supported by the story, and argue heavily for it until you either decide to drop it or the update just proves you wrong anyway. Like I've said, you had some serious issues in the last few updates that some option was going to be overly complicated and drag down the story, or that a vote's text made no sense in your mind's eye about the battle, or whatever the hell your issue with the meta-narratives of this write-in is.

And again, like I said before, you've been belligerent and harassed people before, including the author, so I'm not exactly viewing any argument you make as being in good faith or even helpful to the thread and its community. Sorry that it's turned out this way.
 
WalkingMoon said:
I still worry about that we didn't take the route where we get an actual reaction from our gown that we could interact with, the tailor said its very jealous so I think we maybe had the chance to quell/solve a problem that will only get worse the more mature the spirit gets.
We just have to look at Cai's gown, to know how much trouble a rebellious spirit gown can make you.

We completely neglected the gown up until now to a degree that we didn't even try it out or interact with it to see what it can do and only the tailor told us it can change forms, so far we didn't even comb it once, that spirit is really not gonna help us down the road if we continue to neglect it and not care for it.
Also that it ate something we sleep in aka tastes/smells like us should be extremely telling that It could get really bad in the future when it matures and still is that really jealous, it could try to constantly consume us in its jealousy, just like cai's gown tries to control her and cai has to fight it constantly, that is not something I want to see and could have a bad influence in the future.
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I don't really think it's all that bad as what you're saying. The main consequence of that vote is Wind Thief not being cultivated properly (aka it would go a similar direction to what PLR once did), which I'm not gonna take that lying down so I'm glad not wearing it won.

I wouldn't really say though that we've neglected it all this time when that's literally almost what she wears everyday, though I guess we'll find out later this turn (since we're meeting Lin Hai for a talisman). IF there is indeed consequences, then we'll tackle the problem as we go
 
Jensaarai said:
And again, like I said before, you've been belligerent and harassed people before, including the author, so I'm not exactly viewing any argument you make as being in good faith or even helpful to the thread and its community. Sorry that it's turned out this way.
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Like when? Because you seem to be the one being belligerent at the moment. You're under no obligation to interact with @AbeoLogos at all, but for some reason you keep harassing him about his comments.
 
WalkingMoon said:
I still worry about that we didn't take the route where we get an actual reaction from our gown that we could interact with, the tailor said its very jealous so I think we maybe had the chance to quell/solve a problem that will only get worse the more mature the spirit gets.
We just have to look at Cai's gown, to know how much trouble a rebellious spirit gown can make you.

We completely neglected the gown up until now to a degree that we didn't even try it out or interact with it to see what it can do and only the tailor told us it can change forms, so far we didn't even comb it once, that spirit is really not gonna help us down the road if we continue to neglect it and not care for it.
Also that it ate something we sleep in aka tastes/smells like us should be extremely telling that It could get really bad in the future when it matures and still is that really jealous, it could try to constantly consume us in its jealousy, just like cai's gown tries to control her and cai has to fight it constantly, that is not something I want to see and could have a bad influence in the future.
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It's not as bad as that, rather dress-chan is a jealous girl and missed us when we were inadvertently gone for 3 days and was stress eating to her ice cream. Also I think that was the only vote option in the quest that we had a hint of her getting any reaction whatsoever and we still got it after returning home.
She's still very young and sleepy before she wakes up fully and we can communicate more, also Liming was made with explicit instructions from Shenhua to protect CRX from the get go so they've always been aggressive while we got a single thread of liming to incubate and get accustomed to their wearer getting the chance to develop her personality more naturally.
 
You can neglect someone while still in their presence.
I think we should do something nice to our dress, feed it shawls or something. :V
But more seriously, just wearing a dress with jealousy issues i probably not enough to properly raise them into someone capable of playing well with others.
Might be worth it to study how spirits form and how to influence their awakening.
 
Seventeen said:
Like when? Because you seem to be the one being belligerent at the moment. You're under no obligation to interact with @AbeoLogos at all, but for some reason you keep harassing him about his comments.
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Sorry it seems that way to you? And off the top of my head right now? The whole Warm Hearth (?) debacle, and some stuff in the previous thread over someone's side story. Oh, and this one a bit more vague in my memory, but that time they accused a large part of the thread of not caring about Zhengui, because the majority voted for an option that they perceived as leaving him high and dry over political concerns.

And we're both participating in the thread, and they sometimes make some real out-there arguments that I feel the need to respond to, but yeah I probably need to back off for a bit. Getting too tired of this shit.
 
Jensaarai said:
Sorry it seems that way to you? And off the top of my head right now? The whole Warm Hearth (?) debacle, and some stuff in the previous thread over someone's side story. Oh, and this one a bit more vague in my memory, but that time they accused a large part of the thread of not caring about Zhengui, because the majority voted for an option that they perceived as leaving him high and dry over political concerns.

And we're both participating in the thread, and they sometimes make some real out-there arguments that I feel the need to respond to, but yeah I probably need to back off for a bit. Getting too tired of this shit.
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I know the times you're talking about. It made the environment pretty toxic, especially during the ZG vs Wang Chao thing. It was pretty upsetting but each time a vote ends, these things blow over. Better to keep it that way then go over the same stuff. Go, take a walk, breath ❤
 
Killer_Whale said:
Since you're all burned out, and there's a taste of ash in your mouth, you're welcome to join me in the ASA club. :whistle: :V
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It feels like an art and style that would've gone well with the early freedom and wind ideas we had, before the winter and home themes really got traction. Hmm, flip the fire element around, and I don't think the draining heat aspect would be terribly out of place with our Ending theme.

It's actually kinda funny how the art still has thematic possibilities with Ling Qi, even now. It would take some jiggering and experimenting, but still...

edit; Winter Hearth even has cold and fire in its keywords, so opposing duality is a thing. I don't think you would actually need to flip the fire element of ASA, since you can just tie that in directly and spruce it up as being about the ending of fire or something.

And if Zhengui could pick up some tricks from the ash and construct aspects, then that'd be an awesome upgrade for him. Another ranged attack with the blinding gusts, and he would start to emulate Ling Qi with all the summonable minions.
 
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