Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I meant directly without special preparations, like building something to Spark of Life them first.
And DP just answered, so I'm good now.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
And DP just answered, so I'm good now.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Yes he did, we can just turn undead into warforged no problem, the 50 research cost, is to be able to do it 40IM cheaper per warforged.
I'm not going to be doing that, I just wanted to know how much we were feeding the old gods, with willing and undead modifiers, a 1HD undead count for 2.4HD, divide that by 10, and it's 0.24HD per sacrifice, which mean every 1000 1HD undead is 240HD sacrifice the old gods get, if we indeed end up doing this with tens of thousands of undead, this is going to be one of the biggest power ups we have yet given the old gods, I expect Bloodraven will be very happy with us, and that the Others are going to face some setbacks, if we go ahead with this plan.
We have already determined the 40IM reduction to be what we get from it here, if we ever do it to another undead civilization, where the sapient undeads have a much higher average strength than here, I would want a separate average for them, but you have decided on 40IM per undead here, and I respect that as GM your word in such things is final.
I didn't even consider challenging your calculations, I just wanted to know how much of the fringe benefit, that's well fed old gods we could expect.
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Thanks, I appreciate that and yeah the Old Gods would be very happy with a sacrifice of this scale.
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tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
And that's always a goal in itself, the more we please the old gods, the more leeway we have in how to punish the Seven, the easier we can get them to try new things, and of course them being stronger means problems for the Void, who are our enemies as much as theirs.
If the old gods gains were negligent, then this plan would be somewhat less worth it, the fact they get major gains, is another argument in favor of the plan.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
A 40 IM reduction in Warforged production cost is quite nice. That's a savings of 40,000 IM per 1,000 Warforged.
Now the question becomes how many Undead there will be who are willing and able to make the transference and how much of the cost the Sarnori can pay? If they can pay all of it, in materials, reagents, or even in non-sentient Undead for their entire population of eligible Undead, I don't see the benefit of using a Research Action here.
A 20 Progress Research Action isn't unreasonable, though the earliest it could be completed would be the end of next month. I'm expecting quite a few Undead will be eager to make the transition earlier than that, but there will also be a bottleneck on the number of available empty Warforged we can produce.
@DragonParadox, assuming the Creation Forge is operating at maximum capacity, how many empty Warforged can we produce on a monthly basis?
Now the question becomes how many Undead there will be who are willing and able to make the transference and how much of the cost the Sarnori can pay? If they can pay all of it, in materials, reagents, or even in non-sentient Undead for their entire population of eligible Undead, I don't see the benefit of using a Research Action here.
A 20 Progress Research Action isn't unreasonable, though the earliest it could be completed would be the end of next month. I'm expecting quite a few Undead will be eager to make the transition earlier than that, but there will also be a bottleneck on the number of available empty Warforged we can produce.
@DragonParadox, assuming the Creation Forge is operating at maximum capacity, how many empty Warforged can we produce on a monthly basis?
300/day so 9,000/month. Unlike the flesh forge it does have limits since many of its functions are still manual and depend on hired smiths
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Even if they can pay for all of the conversions themselves, that's no reason to forgo making a profit, if they can pay for the material costs, then the money from sacrifice cost reduction, will just be our fee.
If they have enough money or goods to pay, that just mean we get to profit, instead of having to spend money on charity.
The question that should determine if we do this, is how many undead we will be converting, not how much of it they can pay for themselves.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I don't want to make a profit from converting them to Warforged. It's in our best interests for them to make the transition for a number of reasons, so charging them more than the process costs is just being greedy.
The next thing we need to know if how much they can pay. If it's the full 225 IM, great, no RA needed. If it's 185 or less, then the RA could be well worth the time used.
That many? Wow, that's nice. I'll update the Creation Forge entry in my Forge Mechanics page once I get back to my computer.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
This is too specialized for too little gain, imo.
20 Progress is almost twice the amount upgrading Dark Sister would take.
Is one third more than looking into the control-words of the Wall.
It is equal in effort to us creating our first
Is twice the amount needed to create basic Fire Elementals.
Two points more than visiting libraries of Vahar and picking up all of their exotic lore.
Is almost as much as creating Psychic Vampire template would've taken had forge not been compromised right now.
Etc.
This plan does not give the bang for it's buck, even if we find ourselves with over 50k Sarnori wanting to Warforge.
Simply because it will not be a one-month action, they will take months to do so (if at all), and will pay for the act as well.
RAs we have aplenty, and far more prioritiseable ones, at that.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Even if we don't want to make a profit, if there's more than 30k to be converted, we should do the RA, simply because they're going to become our allies and trading partners, and them not having spent themselves into destitution, will make them much more useful trading partners.
Well that and the fact that we also want to power the old gods up, if we can get 30k or more partial sacrifices for the old gods, that's 7200HD+ worth of power the old gods get.
40X50k is 2 million, 2 million IM saved, and 12000HD worth of undead fed to the old gods, is worth 50 research points.
Don't just look at the monetary rewards, those are nice by themselves, but you should also look at the goodwill, doing this research will get us, the old gods will love getting so many sacrifices, and when we start Westeros, we can use all the old god goodwill we can get, as the more they love us, the more they're ready to compromise on how to punish the Seven.
Vote closed.
I think there is almost no chance of them being able to pay 185 IM per conversion. If I recall correctly, a skilled artisan might make 50IM a year, and even we couldn't pay for that for our citizens.
I also get the feeling that most of the undead here are corporeal. I can see an argument for the sacrifice research (not sure if I agree with it, there is a lot competing for limited slots), but the 30 progress ghost sacrifice looks way to expensive.
I also get the feeling that most of the undead here are corporeal. I can see an argument for the sacrifice research (not sure if I agree with it, there is a lot competing for limited slots), but the 30 progress ghost sacrifice looks way to expensive.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
It's the other way around, the basic research is 30 points, the ghost research is 20 points.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Well, we can take the hit of up to several million IM with little (if any) hurt, if that's what the conversion takes.
We would secure their vassalage with that option, of course, but it doesn't seem like too big of a concession to make for them all returning to life... sorta.
If they do have a fuckhuge amount of bling hidden away and they are willing to part with most of it?
We'll still end up on great terms post-conversiin and eventually subsume them because our Superstate is kinda bullshit.
I see little reason to do any RAs personally, even if they would be cost-effective IM-wize (I'm not conviced), they really are't Progress-wize.
----------((My Little Rant: RAs are Magic))-----------
We have far more urgent projects to rush.
For every enemy out there we have a project we'd have to do.
The illithids?
Psionic Defenses (80 Progress, y'all), and general
Psionic research too - the countermeasures won't allow us to do jack shit to make our own Psionics nor to attack the Squids with.
Also, one of their bases has temporal bullshit they are working on. Wanna bet we will have to research that too?
-------
The Others?
A whole line of RAs to recover the control-words of the Wall, and all the Runecrafting actions.
And we have to assist the Djinn with their massive anti-Void slow-burn RA.
-------
The Efreeti?
Any found ward-scheme goes into the Ritual Fortress as soon as we stumble upon it.
Until the war ends we are also locked in into halping the Djinn/Shaitan Alliance against the
Efreeti via RAs, see last month's obligation to look into the Efreeti technology.
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Court of Stars, Ymeri, Winter Fey of the Void?
All have RAs if we ever want to semi-safely walk into the Feywild for any period of real-time (and we can do fuck-all to kill the larger Fey-entities without walking into the schedule-deathtrap the Feywild is).
CoS also has their crown we haven't so much as scratched the surface of.
-------
The 15th?
Gotta finish the Pylon we recovered during our last expedition into Valyria, and look into ways to counter his influence so we can, well, actually get close enough to feed him to Yss one day.
---------
The Bloodstone Emps?
RAs into the shadow-magic to counter him and safely get in/out of his territory;
Finding that comet we got a ploothook for and researching it;
Likely RA'ing the shit out of that comet that marks the start of ASOIAF's canon if it is connected to him as it seems to be.
-------
Llolth and the Underdark?
Gotta do that one RA that I had yet to wrote down to make VS-based rock-mulching machines; do the one to restore Drow priestess, and likely lots more once we make actual contact.
And then there's the massive Godcrafting line, the [Gear-centred] projects to make powered armor and
With all of the above?
Yeh, I don't think this RA really holds any water whatsoever.
Progress-numbers are unironically far harder to come by than number-numbers.
Thanks @Crake btw, unironically.
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tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Don't forget the non-monetary rewards from doing this, the old gods will have a lot of extra power to throw around, if we partially sacrifice 50k undeads to them.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
What'd I do this time?
Or... didn't do?
Er, I mean, yeah YOUR WELCOME. 😎
- Location
- Germany
I'm against involving higher powers here on principle.
We can re-create a whole civilisation with purely Arcane magic. How cool is that?
I want it without the PEZ-dispenser math some try to apply to gods.
We can re-create a whole civilisation with purely Arcane magic. How cool is that?
I want it without the PEZ-dispenser math some try to apply to gods.
Inserted tally
Part MMMDLXXXIII: When Tears are Spent
When Tears are Spent
Sixth Day of the Second Month 294 AC
Pretending to harangue and grind down someone when you have only the vaguest notion of what you should be grinding him down with is one of the more difficult parts you have played of late, but in the end it is only a veil for the true words you would have with the dead prince, words Varys caries by silent voice that not even the most attentive of ears can catch.
His first reaction is incredulity, then suspicion, even anger stopping just shy of spitting some insult in your face. Thankfully he does stop, else you would have tested if there are any watchers here and now. Slowly you offer what proof you can; knowledge of the outside world, the passing of history and an explanation of how you came into the city unseen.
Though the nameless prince is not wholly convinced he is at least intrigued enough to listen you go through an abbreviated history, lingering in particular upon your doings in Sallosh and Sathar, and finally your reasons for being here, a living ally is worth more than a dead foe. Too easily could the dead of Sarnor be twisted to the ends of dark powers as they are now.
"I am called Zadin, son of dragons," he finally relents when you have said your full piece. Fragile, precious stone, you hear the echo in the spell of translation. A name given to him by his mother or nursemaid when he was still young you suspect. "Not that there is anything worth saving in my uncle's High Council. I would call him a usurper, but that word is worn away to nothing besides his other crimes. It was Gurtukul, Lord Protector of Mardosh, who forbade caravans from traveling north when the noose of the Dothraki tightened around the city. He claimed to need every hand on the walls, but it did not matter that the walls held when the people starved. The only thing those strong arms served for was cutting the throats of their own kin..."
A bitter laugh escapes dead lips, thankfully fitting with the mummery you are playing. "Only it was not for each soldier to kill his or her kith and kin, each were sent to put a different part of the populace to the sword, each told their kindred would be spared and that we have food yet to keep them. In the end there was naught but sorrow and madness and a bloody charge. He handed me the knife and said to die like the man I could not live by. I threw it back at him and told him to kill me like the man he was. He wept as I died and I cared nothing for his tears, if that makes me a monster then so be it. I am in the company of those like me."
For the first time in months you find yourself at a genuine loss for words. You feel disgusted, horrified, but no expression of those feelings seems adequate. You cannot even curse the boy's uncle along with him for you can see how the choice he made at first might have seemed justified from a military perspective, and by the end given what the Dothraki did to their slaves you might almost understand the death of Mardosh. A murderer the king may be, but not a blood-mad tyrant. You know what that looks like all too well.
Instead you ask: "This curse that blinds the people of Mardosh to their true fate, do you know how it is anchored?" you ask instead.
"There is a mirror forged in the blood of captured Dothraki, brought in chains from their holy place. It lies deep below the palace, it holds the false vision, shatter it and the people will remember and they will see," he replies at once.
And then a good part of the city will go mad with grief, you think but not at Zadin. "Do you know of any way that the veil may be lifted more gently?"
"I am not a priest or sorcerer." There is something almost like fear to the words and Varys confirms for the first time the scent of a lie.
"I did not asks you if you were," you reply evenly.
A sigh passes the lips of one who does not need to breathe. "He has been asking me to be 'King of the Slain'. That is why I thought you are here," the prince admits. "It would make the enchantment more enduring. I suspect that if I were to take it I might have some authority to lift it by turn... save that I too would not remember."
What do you do?
[] Suggest that he take the deal, vowing that you would remove his uncle and reveal the truth to him
[] Vow to kill the Lord Protector first
[] Free the prince, he could be of great use to you
[] Write in
OOC: I hope all the italics don't make this hard to read.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Honestly not sure how to approach this situation. It seems so straight forward. Just kill the big bad and the problem is solved? We know more than we did, but obviously there are still holes.
Maybe we should investigate the Lord himself first and then decide.
Maybe we should investigate the Lord himself first and then decide.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Yeah, we need to know more before we decide on a definite course of action.
@DragonParadox, did the Prince indicate how often his uncle visits, if ever? Can he tell us where we would be most likely to find him?
Well there is the issue of the entirety of the military being responsible for an atrocity on the rest of the populace, if many of the specters think like the prince you would have to kill all of them to keep their allegiance and the military are the ones who would be most useful in a war.
He has not visited in person for weeks, he can usually be found in the city's main barracks and granary complex training.
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