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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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You know, our group has surprisingly few, Capital 'A', Artifacts. Richard has Oathkeeper, Viserys has Serpent's Sin. And we have a McGuffin in our cloak. And what's funnier is we only found the McGuffin gathering dust in some ancient ruin, and had to make the other two ourselves.

Edit: Oh, and Vee has her kick-ass Runestaff.
 
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Crake said:
You know, our group has surprisingly few, Capital 'A', Artifacts. Richard has Oathkeeper, Viserys has Serpent's Sin. And we have a McGuffin in our cloak. And what's funnier is we only found the McGuffin gathering dust in some ancient ruin, and had to make the other two ourselves.

Edit: Oh, and Vee has her kick-ass Runestaff.
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Don't forget Yss, the Most Powerful Belt to Have Ever Existed.
 
@DragonParadox, is this is good summary of our tax policies so far?
  • At first we raised less taxes than the previous Lords (in Torturer's Deep, then in Tyrosh). I think remember you saying that we didn't need the money and that we considered the previous leaders extortionate?
    • So in SD and Tyrosh, not only did we come killing monsters and freeing slaves, we also immediately made everyone wealthier simply by taking fewer taxes. Good PR, there.
  • The annexations of Myr and Braavos involved significantly less disruption of the existing institutional structures : did this affect tax policy? Did we add a new tax for us on top of the existing ones, did we redirect existing taxes away from the city and towards us, or did we also take fewer taxes?
    • My guess would be that we redirected some taxes away from the city and towards us, effectively changing nothing for people on the ground
    • However, the removal of border tolls would likely affect the economy, making many goods more affordable to buyers in the short term (it's hard to guess how things evolve in the longer term: does the competition crush local industry? Does access to new markets provide more local jobs and money flowing into the city? Does each wity raise new taxes that just so happen to mirror the old border duties to keep protecting their own industries? Not enough information to say, and honestly it doesn't matter much and can be offscreened completely).
    • tl;dr: Our arrival probably didn't cause instant economic improvement for the common people of Myr and Braavos, but the removal of border duties must have been nice for those who could afford foreign goods.
  • Lys was conquered, and much of its leadership killed. Was this a Tyrosh scenario in terms of taxation changes, or a Myrish one?
  • Then we voted on a new tax code (which we have yet to take the big institutional actions to implement, which makes me sad). Rereading the vote, this new tax code will in effect significantly lower taxes on commoners (especially ones who aren't actually destitute and who own their own home/small business), due to the higher thresholds and especially due to the removal of previous medieval city taxes on specific things. This will likely immediately increase the effective wealth of our people once we can make it happen.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
At first we raised less taxes than the previous Lords (in Torturer's Deep, then in Tyrosh). I think remember you saying that we didn't need the money and that we considered the previous leaders extortionate?
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Yes, though it was mostly for being cultists, not their taxation policies

TalonofAnathrax said:
The annexations of Myr and Braavos involved significantly less disruption of the existing institutional structures : did this affect tax policy? Did we add a new tax for us on top of the existing ones, did we redirect existing taxes away from the city and towards us, or did we also take fewer taxes?
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You redirected tax, though the availability of magic for infrastructure building means it was not seen as an imposition by most.

TalonofAnathrax said:
However, the removal of border tolls would likely affect the economy, making many goods more affordable to buyers in the short term (it's hard to guess how things evolve in the longer term: does the competition crush local industry? Does access to new markets provide more local jobs and money flowing into the city? Does each wity raise new taxes that just so happen to mirror the old border duties to keep protecting their own industries? Not enough information to say, and honestly it doesn't matter much and can be offscreened completely).
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There has mostly been growth from tolls and border taxes removed, though a many local lords did raise new taxes mirroring the old to keep their revenue stream. The cleverer ones just took their money and started investing, like the Myrish consortium investing in grain.

TalonofAnathrax said:
Lys was conquered, and much of its leadership killed. Was this a Tyrosh scenario in terms of taxation changes, or a Myrish one?
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Tyroshi, Lys still bore the economic scars of the plague and the high taxes did not help anyone.

TalonofAnathrax said:
Then we voted on a new tax code (which we have yet to take the big institutional actions to implement, which makes me sad). Rereading the vote, this new tax code will in effect significantly lower taxes on commoners (especially ones who aren't actually destitute and who own their own home/small business), due to the higher thresholds and especially due to the removal of previous medieval city taxes on specific things. This will likely immediately increase the effective wealth of our people once we can make it happen.
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Yes, exactly.
 
Vote closed,
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 24, 2020 at 8:22 AM, finished with 30 posts and 16 votes.
  • 17
    [X] Knowledge Is Power, Now Stop Guarding It
    -[X] "The Citadel would claim that the oaths given to Lords that their number take service with, compel them to only choose between giving council sought after, or holding one's tongue whether or not it is required." The Citadel isn't wholly, or even mostly full of people who don't honestly come by these words, but going by the latter half of what you have said, even someone working honestly can do grave harm by having their hands tied by either biases or political concerns that the Citadel would fervently deny they are embroiled in.
    -[X] "A Maester is as much what he chooses to do with their knowledge as what he explicitly does not. Just as any other man or woman who wields power in this world. And mistake me not, knowledge is power, and the Citadel has guarded that power for thousands of years." Power is power, but unlike what most people believe in regards to secrets, the power of knowledge isn't squandered by sharing it. When the standard of learning is risen, then the depths to which knowledge can be expanded also rises with it.
    -[X] "I am not ignorant of my own actions. I have carefully sequestered the secular authority that I believe necessary in order to reliably and productively rule my realm, but there is much power and agency that I share freely and widely as is possible, as I believe it a right for all thinking beings to be able to make informed choices." Because then they will be less likely to make poor ones, which force you to clean up a mess.
    -[X] "To the Citadel, my policies are anathema. Their gatekeeping of ancient lore yet unseen is the only thing that makes them stand out in the myriad halls of learning I hope to raise across the world, so that people can come to grips with their own fates as much as they can." That's where the similarities end. They have allowed people without voice or opportunity gain some agency of their own... by denying the same opportunity to everyone else.
    -[X] "Where they fall short is actually leveraging that knowledge to improve the world in any tangible manner, not always wholly of their own fault, I will admit freely, but improbably so does the onus of the failure to do so lie with them, given how long they have had to pursue a path of progress no less than patronage of like-minded individuals with the means to make their works reality." The Citadel had so long to make a difference and change the world for the better, and we are given reason to believe they have willfully acted to keep the world as it is instead. The world was a shitheap before magic returned, and right now the dung is on fire and you are struggling to put it out. They have done little and less to clean up after themselves.
    -[X] "In what I hope to build, cooperation, mutual benefit and public welfare are of utmost importance, not the partisan games of yore." Something he shouldn't hold any love for, given what they have denied him for years.
    -[X] "Shall factionalism never become a concern in such organizations again? I am not naive, but as I have said many times in similar context, there is little point in encouraging or making it easy, and plenty of sense in encouraging the opposite with all the levers at my disposal." An ounce of prevention is better than ten pounds of cure, especially when cure comes in the form of bloodshed.
    -[X] "They are not the only organization who would oppose this new reality, nor shall they be the last. But they will pass, and those who took up their chains and robes to enrich the world with knowledge, or wield it for a good cause, will have further opportunities to do so." Both the people who joined to improve the world, and enrich themselves, will have the opportunity to live life the way they want to.
    -[X] With a pleasant smile: "And those who seek to stand in the way of the future I envision, to the point that they would actively undermine it, can go straight to Hell." You will kill those that you have to, and drag everyone else along kicking and screaming if necessary.
    [X] "I have no need of Maesters, Wisdom. My realm abounds with scholars and teachers, librarians and scribes, and their numbers will only grow in the years to come as comprehensive education becomes freely available to all citizens. They will be unburdened by an institutional culture which seeks to suppress knowledge." There isn't much point in being subtle at this juncture. The Citadel's time has passed. We'll salvage from it what we can, knowledge and people both, and see to it that needless ignorance is banished from the world.
    -[X] "Men and women of wisdom and vision, however, those with power and the good sense to know when to use it and when a softer touch is called for, that is what this realm, this world, needs. Are you one of those men, Wisdom?"
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Part MMMDLXXIII: Mage's Mercy
  • Threadmarks
    • Mage's Mercy ​

    Twenty Eight Day of the First Month 294 AC

    "The Citadel would claim that the oaths given to lords that their number take service with compel them to only choose between giving council sought after, or holding one's tongue whether or not it is required," you reply after taking a drink of your own dawn mead. An honest sentiment for most who bear a maester's chain, but still too many find their hands tied by either biases or political concerns that the Citadel would fervently deny they are embroiled in. "A maester is as much what he chooses to do with their knowledge as what he explicitly does not, just as any other man or woman who wields power in this world. And mistake me not, knowledge is power, and the Citadel has guarded that power for thousands of years."

    Sari shifts in her seat, obviously annoyed. 'Say what you mean and mean what you say', her posture says louder than words. Alas she will just have to endure the whole speech. It is Marwyn you are trying to persuade.

    "I am not ignorant of my own actions. I have carefully sequestered the secular authority that I believe is necessary in order to reliably and productively rule my realm, but there is much power and agency that I share freely and widely as is possible, as I believe it a right for all thinking beings to be able to make informed choices...."

    "Because if they make poor choices everyone suffers," Dany interjects softly. "I was lucky, in circumstances, in the presence of kith and kin, most in my place would not have the chance to unravel their chains by fey magic."

    "Not all you teach is about monsters and magic," Marwyn points out.

    "No, I would also teach numbers and how they might be used so that more people can do business safely and without being cheated. I would teach letters so that my citizens might have news that is not woven of rumor, hearsay and words by malice mispoken. I could claim that all this is in the service of making more folk safer from perils beyond, but to be entirely honest it is not. I'm not taking the shit out the gutters so that no filth daemons can nest in it. I'm doing it because people live better lives with cleaner streets and the rest just the same."

    "The place they call Flea Bottom could certainly do with clean water to wipe away the cesspool gathered there out of sight of the mighty," Ashin agrees.

    "To the Citadel my policies are anathema. Their gatekeeping of ancient lore yet unseen is the only thing that makes them stand out in the myriad halls of learning I hope to raise across the world so that people can come to grips with their own fates as much as they can." you continue, voice carefully level. You are not offering accusations here but a simple description of the world as you see it. "Where they fall short is actually leveraging that knowledge to improve the world in any tangible manner, not always wholly of their own fault I will admit freely, but improbably so does the onus of the failure to do so lie with them given how long they have had to pursue a path of progress, no less than patronage of like-minded individuals with the means to make their works reality."

    "So you have no need for maesters of any stripe?" the Archmaester of m/Magic asks bluntly, his heavy brows rising in genuine shock.

    "In what I hope to build, cooperation, mutual benefit and public welfare are of utmost importance, not the partisan games of yore," you reply. "For maesters, those who now bear the chains of learning there shall be room aplenty. In truth I count one such among my dearest friends, but for the Citadel with its games and factions tangled for three thousand years and more, no."

    For a long moment Marwyn and his companions are silent. He does not raise the point of factionalism being inevitable as you imagined he might. Instead when he speaks at last his voice is a little rougher than you had heard it before. "There are some in the Citadel you would likely rather see swept aside, but whom I would wish to speak for. How wide is your generosity, Your Grace?"

    "Wide enough that I have no intention to rule a kingdom drenched in blood no matter the Usurpation," you reply cautiously. "I have no less understanding for those in grey the the bight colors of the noble houses so long as the deeds are not too dreadful nor likely to repeat. I do not think it would be a surprise to you or any other that there shall be no forgiveness for Tywin Lannister or his ilk."

    "If you would end the Citadel, Your Grace, than I want a word in the doing," Marwyn says. "Not for pride's sake to be the last Grand Maester, nor yet for vengeance against those who wronged me, but to see to it that those who acted from folly and not malice are not punished too deeply. Even sheep after all deserve better than to be lead off a cliff blind."

    What do you reply?

    [] Accept, Marwyn will be made the last Grand Maester of the Citadel before its abolishment and will be able to advocate for his fellow maesters

    [] Counter-proposal
    -[] Write in

    OOC: And here we are, I hope these negotiations do not drag unduly, but I felt like I should do Marwyn's motivations a better service that just 'is bitter at his peers'.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Hmm, what's he playing at? I cannot believe that he does this out of the goodness of his heart.

    Mayhaps there are people that's precious to him? In terms of favours owned and simple brilliance in the art of the arcane?
     
    [X] Accept, Marwyn will be made the last Grand Maester of the Citadel before its abolishment and will be able to advocate for his fellow maesters
    -[X] He will be able to advocate, though this does not give him the final say. The Citadel will still be thoroughly investigated.

    He can try to save his friends, but the Conspiracy is going down hard.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Mage's Mercy ​

    Twenty Eighth Day of the First Month 294 AC

    "The Citadel would claim that the oaths given to Lords their number take service with compel them to only choose between giving council sought after, or holding one's tongue whether or not it is required," you reply after taking a drink of your own dawn mead. An honest sentiment for most who bear a maester's chain, but still too many find their hands tied by either biases or political concerns that the Citadel would fervently deny they are embroiled in. "A Maester is as much what he chooses to do with his knowledge as what he explicitly does not. Just as any other man or woman who wields power in this world. And mistake me not, knowledge is power, and the Citadel has guarded that power for thousands of years."

    Sari shifts in her seat, obviously annoyed. Say what you mean and mean what you say, her posture says louder than words. Alas, she will just have to endure the whole speech. It is Marwyn you are trying to persuade.

    "I am not ignorant of my own actions. I have carefully sequestered the secular authority that I believe necessary in order to reliably and productively rule my realm, but there is much power and agency that I share freely and widely as is possible, as I believe it a right for all thinking beings to be able to make informed choices...."

    "Because if they make poor choices everyone suffers," Dany interjects softly. "I was lucky, in circusmtances, in the presence of kith and kin. Most in my place would not have the chance to unravel their chains by fey magic."

    "Not all you teach is about monsters and magic," Marwyn points out.

    "No I would also teach numbers and how they might be used so that more people can do business safely and without being cheated. I would teach letters that my citizens might have news that is not woven of rumor, hearsay and words my malice mispoken. I could claim that all this is in the service of making more folk safer from perils beyond, but to be entirely honest it is not. I'm not taking the shit out the gutters so that no filth daemons can nest in it. I'm doing it because people live better lives with cleaner streets and the rest just the same."

    "The place they call Fleabotton could certainly do with clean water to wipe away the cesspool gathered there out of sight of the mighty," Ashin agrees.

    "To the Citadel, my policies are anathema. Their gatekeeping of ancient lore yet unseen is the only thing that makes them stand out in the myriad halls of learning I hope to raise across the world, so that people can come to grips with their own fates as much as they can," you continue, voice carefully level. You are not offering accusations here but a simple description of the world as you see it. "Where they fall short is actually leveraging that knowledge to improve the world in any tangible manner, not always wholly of their own fault, I will admit freely, but improbably so does the onus of the failure to do so lie with them, given how long they have had to pursue a path of progress no less than patronage of like-minded individuals with the means to make their works reality."

    "So you have no need for Maesters of any stripe?" the Archmaester of magic asks bluntly, his heavy brows rising in genuine shock.

    "In what I hope to build, cooperation, mutual benefit and public welfare are of utmost importance, not the partisan games of yore," you reply. "For maesters, those who now bear the chains of learning there shall be room aplenty. In truth, I count one such among my dearest friends, but for the Citadel and its games and factions tangled for three thousand years and more no."

    For a long moment Marwyn and his companions are silent. He does not raise the point of factionalism being inevitable as you imagined he might. Instead, when he speaks at last, his voice is a little rougher than you had heard it before. "There are some in the Citadel you would likely rather see swept aside, but whom I would wish to speak for. How wide is your generosity, Your Grace?"

    "Wide enough that I have no intention to rule a kingdom drenched in blood, no matter the Usurpation," you reply cautiously. "I have no less understanding for those in grey than the bright colors of the noble houses, so long as the deeds are not too dreadful nor likely to be repeated. I do not think it would be a surprise to you or any other that there shall be no forgiveness for Tywin Lannister or his ilk."

    "If you would end the Citadel, Your Grace, then I want a word in the doing," Marwyn says. "Not for pride's sake, to be the last Grand Maester, nor yet for vengeance against those who wronged me, but to see to it that those who acted from folly rather than malice are not punished too deeply. After all, even sheep deserve better than to be lead off a cliff blind."

    What do you reply?

    [] Accept, Marwyn will be made the last Grand Maester of the Citadel before its abolishment and will be able to advocate for his fellow maesters

    [] Counter-proposal
    -[] Write in

    OOC: And here we are, I hope these negotiations do not drag unduly, but I felt like I should do Marwyn's motivations a better service that just 'is bitter at his peers'. Not yet edited.
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    Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
     
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