A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Crake said:

You know what with all of the roads, if we could produce civilian transportation options, or even just public transportation, we could start seeing people commuting between cities in one region, which would have rapid effects on the economy even the expanding trade between cities doesn't. Experts could go to where they are needed as often as they needed...

Not sure if we can really produce personal transports which weren't for the super-wealthy anytime soon. Locomotives would at least make populations somewhat mobile.

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We can do it for 3,000 IM in diamond dust for a Permanency spell, plus the cost of building the Construct Trolley.

The Huge-sized version can travel up to 22.72 mph on its own, or 11.36 mph when pulling up to 96,000 pounds in cargo. The Gargantuan-sized version can travel up to 27.27 mph, or 13.64 mph while pulling 576,000 pounds of cargo.

It would be simple for Viserys to spend a couple days casting the necessary spells to enchant a few Gargantuan-sized Constructs and a dozen or so of the Huge-sized ones. His time is too valuable to make these for personal use, but they could easily make travel between and within cities much simpler and faster.

Crake said:

Looking at it, we are building our military machine on the kind of artisanl/individual engineering pizzazz akin to the Apollo rockets, you know what with all the parts being put together perfectly to the point that different Engineers couldn't really just look at the same plans and know what the fuck went into it without taking it all apart and trying to fit each piece back together again?

Going at-scale, we can actually expect to expand production in a somewhat linear-to-exponential manner, but I suspect the future of magi-tech innovation is going to be a "less is more" leaning on mundane engineering and regular physics doing most of the heavy lifting with enchantment/rituals being used exclusively to break the laws of reality in just the right places.

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Which is pretty much the idea behind the Wyverns, Manticores and Moonchasers. Some heavy-duty magic to tell off the laws of physics, then regular engineering to exploit their distraction to the greatest extend possible. I mean, most of these things is just pure dead metal with the barest traces of magic, while a few parts (engines, bridge, weaponry) is enchanted to a ludicrous degree.

Steam trains will be the same. You will have a magical boiler, driving everything else with pure mechanical energy gathered from that one breach of thermodynamics.

Goldfish said:

Spoiler: Goldfish's Proposal for Mass Transit via Permanent Animated Objects

On the topic of mass transportation within cities and their local environments;

We start with a Huge-sized Animated Object.

• For our purposes, this will be built similarly to a Trolley Car. This will effectively make it a Quadrupedal Creature when determining carrying capacity, or in this case, the amount of weight it can pull.
  • Carrying Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 9,600 pounds
  • Pulling Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 48,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 96,000 pounds
    • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would be use tracks laid in the center of the streets of SD or on the special tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
  • At Huge-size, it has 4 Construction Points (CP).
    • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
    • Increased Speed: +20 feet (Cost: 2 CP) for a total movement speed of 50 ft.
      • A movement speed of 50 ft is equivalent to that of a horse. At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 22.72 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
      • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, a still respectable 11.36 mph, which is actually much more reasonable in an urban environment like Sorcerer's Deep, at least for public transportation as it currently stands.
  • Using the measurements of a Heavy Wagonas a guide for an acceptable Huge-sized vehicle, our Construct Trolley would be 20 feet long and ten feet wide.
    • Without trying to cram people in like sardines, internal seating arrangement could easily allow four rows of seating, with two rows to a side and a small middle aisle. Each row could hold nine people, for a total seating capacity of 36.
    • Mundane trolley cars could be attached to the Construct Trolley, with each car increasing capacity by 36. Again being conservative, assuming each additional car weighs 6,000 pounds, or 12,000 when fully loaded with up to 36 people, the Construct Trolley could pull eight such fully loaded cars at up to 11.36 mph. Fully loaded, a Construct Trolley with eight cars could transport up to 324 passengers.
      • Construct Trolleys could be used above ground as in the streets of SD, perhaps pulling one or two additional cars, or employed underground as part of a subway system pulling up to eight cars.
  • Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM

A Gargantuan-sized version of this type of Construct would have a much higher pulling capacity.

• Carrying Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 57,600 pounds
• Pulling Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 288,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 576,000 pounds
  • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would use the tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
• At Gargantuan-size, it has 5 Construction Points (CP).
  • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
  • Increased Speed: +30 feet (Cost: 3 CP) for a total movement speed of 60 ft.
    • At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 27.27 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
    • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, approximately 13.64 mph.
• Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM (yep, the price to render the spell Permanent doesn't change)

If we had Viserys cast the spells to render the new Animated Object Permanent, with buffs and gear, the effective caster level to resist Dispelling would be at 34. That would mean the only way someone could Dispel it would be if they pumped their caster level up to 25, cast a Chain Dispel spell, and got a Natural 20 on their Dispel check.

Obviously, with maximum speeds of less than 30 mph and a fairly anemic cargo capacity these aren't really an alternative to the steam trains the Bulabar have been working on for a long while now, but I think they would be a good supplement to our transport systems.

We can do it for 3,000 IM in diamond dust for a Permanency spell, plus the cost of building the Construct Trolley.

The Huge-sized version can travel up to 22.72 mph on its own, or 11.36 mph when pulling up to 96,000 pounds in cargo. The Gargantuan-sized version can travel up to 27.27 mph, or 13.64 mph while pulling 576,000 pounds of cargo.

It would be simple for Viserys to spend a couple days casting the necessary spells to enchant a few Gargantuan-sized Constructs and a dozen or so of the Huge-sized ones. His time is too valuable to make these for personal use, but they could easily make travel between and within cities much simpler and faster.

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That's great for inter-city travel, but outside of them? You are better served by actual locomotive engines.

Crake said:

That's great for inter-city travel, but outside of them? You are better served by actual locomotive engines.

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Steam locomotives would be better for higher speeds and much greater quantities of cargo, but the Construct Trolleys would be people movers with only limited cargo capacity.

EDIT: Really, though, I wouldn't expect there to actually be a need for the Gargantuan-sized ones, at least not for moving people between cities. Even the Huge-sized ones, which can carry up to 324 people without crowding, probably wouldn't be full if they made trips between cities.

Crake said:

That's great for inter-city travel, but outside of them? You are better served by actual locomotive engines.

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Inter-city would mean travel between cities, such as SD <-> Tyrosh.
I think you meant intra-city.

Goldfish said:

Steam locomotives would be better for higher speeds and much greater quantities of cargo, but the Construct Trolleys would be people movers with only limited cargo capacity.

EDIT: Really, though, I wouldn't expect there to actually be a need for the Gargantuan-sized ones, at least not for moving people between cities. Even the Huge-sized ones, which can carry up to 324 people without crowding, probably wouldn't be full if they made trips between cities.

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Kinda not seeing them on long distance journeys due to their speed. The exception being difficult terrain, such as the Painted Mountains or so, where a steam locomotive looses much of it's advantages.

Also, I don't see the appeal in having Viserys cast things. Sure, it's harder to dispel, but he got better things to do then cast spells at wagons to stave off petty vandalism.

Azel said:

Inter-city would mean travel between cities, such as SD <-> Tyrosh.
I think you meant intra-city.

Kinda not seeing them on long distance journeys due to their speed. The exception being difficult terrain, such as the Painted Mountains or so, where a steam locomotive looses much of it's advantages.

Also, I don't see the appeal in having Viserys cast things. Sure, it's harder to dispel, but he got better things to do then cast spells at wagons to stave off petty vandalism.

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We're going to need to seriously ramp up steel production if we're making railroads.

Duesal said:

We're going to need to seriously ramp up steel production if we're making railroads.

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We can cope, especially since the plan has always been to use Titan Tools to make the tracks. Part of the highway system is two tracks which are, like the roads, a corundum cover over a basalt foundation.

Azel said:

Kinda not seeing them on long distance journeys due to their speed. The exception being difficult terrain, such as the Painted Mountains or so, where a steam locomotive looses much of it's advantages.

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My main interest, and the reason I came up with the idea, was for intercity mass transit. I just developed the idea a bit further to account for the possibility of much longer trips between cities.

Also, I don't see the appeal in having Viserys cast things. Sure, it's harder to dispel, but he got better things to do then cast spells at wagons to stave off petty vandalism.

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He isn't required, of course, but Animate Objects is a 6th level Divine spell, so our pool of available casters is fairly limited. Since it wouldn't take him but 12 seconds to cast the spell and follow up with a Permanency spell, it's not exactly a huge time sink.

Anyone who can cast it, though, would be able to Animate the Huge-sized Constructs. For the Gargantuan-sized version, if we ever made them, a caster level of 16 is required.

Azel said:

I think you meant intra-city.

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Yes, that.

Goldfish said:

My main interest, and the reason I came up with the idea, was for intercity mass transit. I just developed the idea a bit further to account for the possibility of much longer trips between cities.

He isn't required, of course, but Animate Objects is a 6th level Divine spell, so our pool of available casters is fairly limited. Since it wouldn't take him but 12 seconds to cast the spell and follow up with a Permanency spell, it's not exactly a huge time sink.

Anyone who can cast it, though, would be able to Animate the Huge-sized Constructs. For the Gargantuan-sized version, if we ever made them, a caster level of 16 is required.

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You can also craft them like regular constructs. The Huge variant would clock in at 1,100 IM / 5.5 days.

Has the added advantage that they can't be dispelled.

Azel said:

You can also craft them like regular constructs. The Huge variant would clock in at 1,100 IM / 5.5 days.

Has the added advantage that they can't be dispelled.

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I saw that, too, but it's not really the superior option, IMO. First, the cost would actually be 2,200 IM. That's cheaper than using Permanency and non-Dispellable, but the crafters who work on them would still have to be a minimum of 11th level and able to use Divine spells. That limits us to Lya, Rina, and Qyburn, and Rina doesn't do enchanting any longer since we keep her occupied with other stuff.

I would rather pay a bit more, not use limited crafter time, and have Viserys, Dany, or Lya spend a couple minutes out of their day to just make them via casting Permanency on an active Animate Objects spell. Any one of them can boost their caster level high enough to make Dispelling the effect extremely difficult to the point of being simpler to just destroy the Constructs if someone is of a mind to interfere with them.

I've been tinkering with my Occular Spell Master PRC for Xor.

The Powerful Vision feature has been significantly modified from it's original version shown here;

Powerful Vision: At 3rd level, the Spectator gains the Ability Focus feat for its Eye Rays. This does not affect the saving throw DC for its Occular Spells.

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Thoughts?

Occular Spell Master
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 12 ranks, Spellcraft 12 ranks, Spot 12 ranks
Spells: Ability to cast 5th level Arcane spells
Race: Spectator Beholderkin
Special: The Spectator must have the Occular Spell spell ability, either learned by a feat or class feature.

Frequently considered lesser Beholderkin by most beings, especially by other Beholders, Spectators have been forced to learn how to harness the comparatively meager powers of their Eye Rays in unusual ways if they wish to survive among the dangerous Planes their curiosity often drives them to explore. Occular Spell Masters work to improve their Eye Rays and hard won Occular spellcasting abilities, learning how to focus, extend, modify, and eventually combine them to potentially devastating effect.

Hit Die: d8
Skill Points: 4 + Int

Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Knowledge (All) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis).

Class Features:
Occular Focus: The Spectator's focus on improving the efficacy of its Eyes Rays significantly enhances their accuracy, though their ability to attack in a more physical manner suffers as a result. The Spectator does not advance its Base Attack Bonus for any level gained in Occular Spell Master, but it gains a +1 bonus to Ranged Attack Rolls per level. This bonus applies only to the Spectator's Eye Rays and any spell it converts into an Occular Spell.

Occular Reach: All Eye Rays produced by the Spectator, Occular Spells included, increase in range by 20 feet per level of Occular Spell Master.

Occular Metamagic: At 2nd and 4th level, the Spectator learns to apply one of the variant Sudden Metamagic effects (Sudden Empower, Sudden Maximize, etc.) to its Occular Spells. The selected Sudden Metamagic feat can be used once per day, unless the same feat is selected at both 2nd and 4th level, which allows it to be used up to three times per day.

Powerful Vision: At 3rd level, the Spectator gains the Ability Focus feat for one of its Eye Rays. Additionally, the selected Eye Ray evolves into a more powerful form. Once the choice is made it cannot be changed.

• Fatigue: The target must make a Fortitude save or become Fatigued. A Fatigued creature that fails to save against this effect becomes Exhausted.
  • Evolved Effect: The ray retains its normal properties and targets gain one Negative Level, as if affected by an Enervation spell, if they fail their Fortitude save. An Exhausted target which fails its Fortitude save gains two Negative Levels.
• Inflict Moderate Wounds: This ray works like the Inflict Moderate Wounds spell, causing 2d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level [+10 maximum] (Will save for half damage).
  • Evolved Effect: This ray works like the Inflict Critical Wounds spell, causing 4d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level [+20 maximum] (Will save for half damage). Damage caused by the ray provides an equal amount of healing to the Spectator.
• Hold Monster: The target must succeed on a Will save or be affected as though by the Hold Monster spell.
  • Evolved Effect: The ray retains its Hold Monster effect but also gains the ability to affect Undead as if they were subjected to a Halt Undead spell and Constructs as if they were subjected to a Disable Construct spell.
• Telepathy: A Spectator can communicate Telepathically with its target for the round. As a Free Action, a Spectator can make a Suggestion to any creature it is currently Telepathically speaking to.
  • Evolved Effect: The ray retains its normal properties, but the Spectator can also use it to apply a Detect Thoughts or Charm Monster effect to their target.

Occular Convergence: Whenever the Spectator strikes a single enemy with more than one Eye Ray or Occular Spell, or a combination of the two, in a single round, the saving throw DC for each effect is increased by +2 and their caster level is increased by +5 for the purpose of overcoming Spell Resistance.

Goldfish said:

I saw that, too, but it's not really the superior option, IMO. First, the cost would actually be 2,200 IM. That's cheaper than using Permanency and non-Dispellable, but the crafters who work on them would still have to be a minimum of 11th level and able to use Divine spells. That limits us to Lya, Rina, and Qyburn, and Rina doesn't do enchanting any longer since we keep her occupied with other stuff.

I would rather pay a bit more, not use limited crafter time, and have Viserys, Dany, or Lya spend a couple minutes out of their day to just make them via casting Permanency on an active Animate Objects spell. Any one of them can boost their caster level high enough to make Dispelling the effect extremely difficult to the point of being simpler to just destroy the Constructs if someone is of a mind to interfere with them.

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The rule is (HD (7) + CP (4)) x 1000 GP = 11,000 GP for the market value. Divide that by 2 to get the crafting price (5,500 GP) and again by 5 to convert to IM (1,100 IM).

Azel said:

The rule is (HD (7) + CP (4)) x 1000 GP = 11,000 GP for the market value. Divide that by 2 to get the crafting price (5,500 GP) and again by 5 to convert to IM (1,100 IM).

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That 11,000 gp is the base enchanting price. We divide that by five to get our enchanting cost in IM, or divide the market price by 10. The market price would be 22,000 gp.

Goldfish said:

That 11,000 gp is the base enchanting price. We divide that by five to get our enchanting cost in IM, or divide the market price by 10. The market price would be 22,000 gp.

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Uhm...

Pathfinder said:

CL varies (equal to the animated object's HD); Price varies (cost of object + [(animated object's HD + CP) × 1,000])

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Feats Craft Construct; Spells animate objects, permanency; Skill optional (determined by object being created; crafting the object reduces its cost); Cost 1/2 price

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Highlighting mine.

Price is the market price, not the enchanting cost. That's the cost.

Edit: Ah. I see the problem. The text above contradicts the stat block.

Goldfish said:

Anyway, I mistakenly named it the Path of the Hoard-Breaker instead of Hoard-Taker. I was gonna fix it, but I kinda like Hoard-Breaker more than Hoard-Taker. What do you think of using that name instead?

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Both names remind me of Hala Demons and the instinctual reaction of Viserys and Dany at Mantarys.

So, there are four different voting options in play at the moment, or three of we don't count Azel's joke vote.

Don't forget to vote, y'all.

[X] Receive a report
-[X] Progress report on the Imperial highway system from the perspective of one or more people who now make regular use of the expanded network of roads.

I would like to see how our Grand Imperial Highway is affecting the life of our people.

I'm also very interested in seeing our state of the art highways. Especially since the Imperial Highways are basically going to be veins for the Imperial Deity if what we saw in the Dreamlands was any indication.

DragonParadox said:

you see stranglers and small groups already beginning to ride out into the plains. Soon enough the plain will resemble an upturned anthill with those fleeing the battle and hoping to slip unnoticed among the sellswords and caravan hands of these roads.

It would take more time than it is worth to you to kill or capture every last one of them

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Stragglers*

Also, would it really have taken that much time to clean up the mooks?

We have Erinyes kill squads, send them in teams of 4 and I don't see how they wouldn't just abuse the birds eye view and at will teleport to gank the lot before they hit the horizon.

Their maximum speed on horseback is 20km/h and that's at a charge.

The horizon is 50km away at 1000 feet.

And each group would take at most 2 maybe 3 rounds to die?

Deliste said:

Stragglers*

Also, would it really have taken that much time to clean up the mooks?

We have Erinyes kill squads, send them in teams of 4 and I don't see how they wouldn't just abuse the birds eye view and at will teleport to gank the lot before they hit the horizon.

Their maximum speed on horseback is 20km/h and that's at a charge.

The horizon is 50km away at 1000 feet.

And each group would take at most 2 maybe 3 rounds to die?

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The Yi Tish are vindictive assholes. Nine Familial Extermination is Xianxia standard. I doubt a single one of those fleeing mercenaries survived the month. Or their families. Or theirs.

TalonofAnathrax said:

So, thread soothsayers, who do you think will be the next Companion to get a Mythic Rank?

I'm betting on Vee. Tyene, Waymar and Garin are cool, but they're just not on Vee's level. She's already been involved in some momentous rituals and dealings with various Gods (making the OG fireproof, etc). If she keeps it up, I expect her to manage it soon enough!

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I'm surprised she's not got one yet, I guess it's because she's never the HAM in an encounter or event but in terms of the self-centric aspects of Mythic.

Nobody has been as quietly explorative and ultimately understanding of themselves as Vee has.

Vee has at times grounded Viserys and soothed his concerns about his treatment of others through sheer contentment in her place in the world, the barefoot swamp girl once lost and bereft of all she ever knew, who stands tall against any challenge and in any situation with conviction of such strength born from Knowing they Belong that Kings damn near apologize for wearing shoes in their own palace.

Crake said:

The Yi Tish are vindictive assholes. Nine Familial Extermination is Xianxia standard. I doubt a single one of those fleeing mercenaries survived the month. Or their families. Or theirs.

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Likely, I wasn't concerned in any way it just didn't seem difficult at all so to read that was odd.

Next up is probably Garin.