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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
Paranoia is all well and good, dude, but what I've got in my plan doesn't even represent 10% of our aquatic servitors. Remember, we've also got thousands of combat capable Tritons, many of which are dedicated warriors, two aquatic mercenary companies, and a huge amount of aquatic Undead.
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Mercs have deployment time and are off-plane;

Tritons are largely civvies and we won't exactly throw them into the meatgrinder to slow down the Squids, like we would fleshforged beasts;

Undead are all fine and well, but the bilk of the forces is protecting our facilities already - and the remaining ones are mostly spitters, not the best meatshields for sure.

The bunch I am proposing won't make us significantly less wealthy-
...And would definitely be easier for me to account than moving the existing forces on the sheet.
Aye, I'm being selfish in addition to being overly careful.
:p
 
@egoo, our Triton numbers have actually grown quite a bit in recent months.
Soldiers:
Arcane Protectors:
1 Dragon Turtle
55 Hippocampus(Usually Scout Mounts)
31 Sea Cats (Usually Guards for the clerics/leaders)

Camp Followers: 8,015 Tritons (2,500 can be called up as Triton Militia)
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That's 780 dedicated warriors, each with their own aquatic mounts, plus 52 Clerics. There are also 2,500 Triton militia. Even a base Triton is a competent CR 2 underwater combatant.

3,332 combatants is nothing to sneeze at, especially when every one of them would be armed with the equivalent of +4 weapons thanks to a Magic Army spell. Every one of them can also use Summon Nature's Ally IV SLA once per day to Summon a CR 4 Sea Cat or Huge Shark. I'm actually eager to see the Surprise!Shark swarm from an army of pissed off Tritons.
 
Goldfish said:
@egoo, our Triton numbers have actually grown quite a bit in recent months.

That's 780 dedicated warriors, each with their own aquatic mounts, plus 52 Clerics. There are also 2,500 Triton militia. Even a base Triton is a competent CR 2 underwater combatant.

3,332 combatants is nothing to sneeze at, especially when every one of them would be armed with the equivalent of +4 weapons thanks to a Magic Army spell. Every one of them can also use Summon Nature's Ally IV SLA once per day to Summon a CR 4 Sea Cat or Huge Shark. I'm actually eager to see the Surprise!Shark swarm from an army of pissed off Tritons.
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Again:
Do you actually intend to throw them at the Squid-forces?
Knowing fully well that'd be a bloodbath?

Those 780 warriors are... okay.
Far from perfect, but aren't horrible.

But the civvies (I.e. "militia") will die in fffucking droves, buffs or not.
And if the warriors die in great number instead, there will be few protectors to the civvies, who'll die in greater numbers yet if attacked later.

As it stands now, they are simply unsuitable as a stand-alone force, be it reactionary or defensive.
All that makes them viable in SD are the golems we made some time ago, and all the other forces we have stationed there.
Like the whole lot of fleshcrafted animals you're intending to send off to protecting Fey instead.
 
egoo said:
Again:
Do you actually intend to throw them at the Squid-forces?
Knowing fully well that'd be a bloodbath?

Those 780 warriors are... okay.
Far from perfect, but aren't horrible.

But the civvies (I.e. "militia") will die in fffucking droves, buffs or not.
And if the warriors die in great number instead, there will be few protectors to the civvies, who'll die in greater numbers yet if attacked later.

As it stands now, they are simply unsuitable as a stand-alone force, be it reactionary or defensive.
All that makes them viable in SD are the golems we made some time ago, and all the other forces we have stationed there.
Like the whole lot of fleshcrafted animals you're intending to send off to protecting Fey instead.
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I'm only mentioning them as a defensive force at all, not an army we can send to attack the Deep Ones.
 
I'm with @egoo on this. Much like the Minotaurs, the Tritons don't have the population to make it feasible to use them as soldiers. There's a vast difference between being able to fight and it being a good idea. We don't make weapons for the entire human population of SD and expect them to die for their Emperor either.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm only mentioning them as a defensive force at all, not an army we can send to attack the Deep Ones.
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And the whole discussion arose from the fact that I didn't want to send off the fleshforged creatures we already have, who could act faster as a reactionary defense, than other aquatic forces avaiable to us.

Without those, tritons are way less defended in SD, but more importantly, we also won't have any aquatic force currently on the plane if the Squids attack, say, Braavos or Lys.
 
Goldfish said:
We've got a huge contingent of aquatic Flesh-Forged servitors who we can assign as guardians for the Court of the Depths without needing to place an order in the Forges.

I don't think we should be stingy with what we assign them, either.

[X] The following aquatic servitors will be transported to the Court of the Depths where they will operate under Grandfather Tide's nominal authority as guardians of the Court of the Depths, defending them from the predations of other hostile powers as they journey beneath the waves.
-[X] 1 Grand Dragon Turtle (CR 15)
-[X] 1 Seawyrm (CR 15)
-[X] 2 Shadebreacher Sperm Whale (CR 12)
-[X] 4 Plant-Imbued Coral Drake (CR 10, 11 HD)
-[X] 2 Aquatic Cleric Creature Jesulan (CR 10, 12 HD)
-[X] 2 Advanced Plant-Imbued Sea Drake (CR 10, 7 HD)
-[X] 2 Advanced Plant-Imbued Druid Creature Orca (CR 10, 9 HD)
-[X] 10 Advanced Plant-Imbued Orca (CR 8, 9 HD)
-[X] 2 Bladeleaf Plant-Imbued Sea Cats (w/+3 Racial HD) (CR 8, 8 HD)
-[X] 4 Kelp Golems (Reskinned Aquatic Pumpkin Golem) (CR 8, 8 HD)
-[X] 3 Advanced Plant-Imbued Gigantean Manta Ray (CR 6, 12 HD)
-[X] 50 Advanced Plant-Imbued Giant Hippocampus (CR 6, 2 HD)
-[X] 2 Advanced Druid Creature Seaweed Leshy (CR 6, 4 HD)
-[X] 5 Plant-Imbued Electric Eel (w/+6 Racial HD) (CR 6, 10 HD)
-[X] 5 Advanced Aquatic Snapdragon Leshy (w/+4 Racial HD) (CR 6, 10 HD)
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That's a good start, but just in case the Deep Ones try something serious, give them a communication-option and promise to send compaion-grade support if necessary?

I think we would do that anyway, but better to have it written in for the Court here.
 
Artemis1992 said:
That's a good start, but just in case the Deep Ones try something serious, give them a communication-option and promise to send compaion-grade support if necessary?

I think we would do that anyway, but better to have it written in for the Court here.
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Done.

I've added assigning three Sending Stones to Grandfather Tide to my plan. I would have given them a Whispering Brazier, but getting one of those to function underwater would be problematic.
 
DragonParadox said:
Guys I think we should probably table the conquest discussion until there is a vote on it, discussing the particulars of the vague future can be tricky to do since nothing gets settled and the arguments go around and around. This isn't even a matter than can be decided in one vote but dozens of them possibly over months. It's impossible to come to a consensus on all of it now.
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@DragonParadox, at some point can you cover the mechanical benefits of the lore we'll be getting from our new subordinate Fey Courts? Also on any crafters or special units we may get access to.
 
Vote closed

I know there aren't a lot of votes, but I'd like to close this sooner so I can get three parts not just two today.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 24, 2020 at 12:06 PM, finished with 42 posts and 9 votes.
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[X] Goldfish

Maybe some WBL-omancy would be appropriate as well? Nothing big, but we could easily make the weakest members of the court incredibly nasty with the right mix of stuff.

Suppose we have a group of ten nixies or something, and we restrict the items to level 0-1 spells. Two with wands of Bloodletting, two with Death's Call one with Benign Transposition, and the last five with Electric Jolt. That's 5d3 electric damage, 2-10 damage + 2 fort saves for fatigue, and 1d6 bleed damage (plus whatever damage the weapon deals) a round. The BT guy can wear some heavier armor, or use some other protection scheme to make itself tanky enough to tag in for anyone about to receive a hit they can't take. If we use charge items such a group would be about 1125 IM all together?

Alternatively, we could go straight jolt and get 10d3 electric damage a round for 750 IM a group if we use wands. That might be a better idea, but mixing some stuff in would provide some tactical flexibility.

Each court probably has dozens of guys who are otherwise irrelevant that would make for amazing harassing elements without getting into any native abilities they might have.
 
BronzeTongue said:
[X] Goldfish

Maybe some WBL-omancy would be appropriate as well? Nothing big, but we could easily make the weakest members of the court incredibly nasty with the right mix of stuff.

Suppose we have a group of ten nixies or something, and we restrict the items to level 0-1 spells. Two with wands of Bloodletting, two with Death's Call one with Benign Transposition, and the last five with Electric Jolt. That's 5d3 electric damage, 2-10 damage + 2 fort saves for fatigue, and 1d6 bleed damage (plus whatever damage the weapon deals) a round. The BT guy can wear some heavier armor, or use some other protection scheme to make itself tanky enough to tag in for anyone about to receive a hit they can't take. If we use charge items such a group would be about 1125 IM all together?

Alternatively, we could go straight jolt and get 10d3 electric damage a round for 750 IM a group if we use wands. That might be a better idea, but mixing some stuff in would provide some tactical flexibility.

Each court probably has dozens of guys who are otherwise irrelevant that would make for amazing harassing elements without getting into any native abilities they might have.
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Launchers would be better, cheaper, and more versatile.
 
Crake said:
Launchers would be better, cheaper, and more versatile.
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Do most of our ammunition varieties work under water? Even if they do, I think the straight jolt approach would work better. Command items would be similarly priced to the launchers but not have an ammunition requirement. Given how these guys move around, running out of supplies and not being in a position to make more is a higher risk than most of our subordinates.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Do most of our ammunition varieties work under water? Even if they do, I think the straight jolt approach would work better. Command items would be similarly priced to the launchers but not have an ammunition requirement. Given how these guys move around, running out of supplies and not being in a position to make more is a higher risk than most of our subordinates.
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The ammunition is cheap to produce in comparison to the wands which will not last that long for the purposes of protracted engagements, and more importantly it does not require CWI upkeep. And yes, being as it is a magical effect, the range of all of the mechanics circumvents petty concerns such as water resistance, shape of the missile, etc. And most of the effects are also effective-as-mechanics (elemental damage specifically has an impact regardless of the circumstances so long as they fall within the AoE and aren't immune or resistant to it). Because they are magical effects.
 
Look ultimately, non-combatants handed launchers will have just as much effect in an engagement of any length that if they are coming under attack quicker than they can be resupplied, we have bigger fucking problems to worry about. If you are going to give them equipment, it should be stuff that doesn't effect our overall crafting throughput more than once, with ammunition being easy enough to count as a rounding error on expenses.
 
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[X] Goldfish

I have to say, in any other setting, our ability to just vat-grow legions of high CR Troops would be busted as fuck.

Given all the shit that our numerous and varied enemies have though, I guess I'd call it evening the playing field. . .
 
Crake said:
The ammunition is cheap to produce in comparison to the wands which will not last that long for the purposes of protracted engagements, and more importantly it does not require CWI upkeep. And yes, being as it is a magical effect, the range of all of the mechanics circumvents petty concerns such as water resistance, shape of the missile, etc. And most of the effects are also effective-as-mechanics (elemental damage specifically has an impact regardless of the circumstances so long as they fall within the AoE and aren't immune or resistant to it). Because they are magical effects.
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Yep. Also, with a range of 440 feet, a Launcher basically outranges any being's ability to see underwater, whereas a Jolt wand is going to cap out at 25 feet and Benign Transposition at 110 feet.

Just had a neat idea. Launchers are basically hollow tubes, so it would be simple to fire a harpoon from one of them with a line attached to it.

How would you like to be an enemy that gets harpooned, with the line attached to a Gigantean Plant-Imbued Manta Ray? You're going to be going for a ride whether you want to or not.
 
KnightofTempest said:
[X] Goldfish

I have to say, in any other setting, our ability to just vat-grow legions of high CR Troops would be busted as fuck.

Given all the shit that our numerous and varied enemies have though, I guess I'd call it evening the playing field. . .
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To be fair, that's true of regular DnD in large part as well. Almost everyone who counts as a major faction has the ability to manufacture powerful minions one way or another. Mortal factions get by with a combination of surprise hero interrupts and effectively bargaining faith/souls to gods for protection from extraplanar threats.

Flesh forging is an important step away from being dinner and a show for most of either setting for mortals.
 
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