Press X to Doubt on there being a better option than Viserys among the list of choices in the Bad Guys camp. I mean if your intentions is to fall into the criteria of "better existence". Personal enrichment, meh, true, we can't outbid Big Red, but that kind of deal basically requires selling out everyone else including your mother, and also typically yourself in some roundabout way where you end up over the barrel and gaining nothing because that's how the Deal Maker works.
And I hesitate to say this... except not really... but none of the other options in the bad guy category seem all that capable of making a convincing argument for eternal slavery. True society not being an opt-in, opt-out thing, one could try to qualify any monolithic political system as enslaving the will of the people toward some grand purpose, but that's so solipsistic an argument as to be completely irrelevant on a philosophical basis alone.
There are some other people in the Bad Guy camp who are comparable in badness for you personally when it comes down to it. Zherys for example, for also follows Pragmatic Evil guidelines, or Tywin, who is a decently nice ruler for the smallfolk and only really leans that hard on the nobility.
Also, I didn't make an eternal slavery argument either, just that the political system the Imperium has is very top-down and with everyone except Viserys being easily overridden in whatever they say or do. It is a very absolute monarchy and thus can be easily called a tyranny, since all rights are explicitly given only at the leisure of the head of state. If that is a bad thing or a good thing depends on your personal take. Louis XIV was definitely a better ruler for most of his subjects then Josef Stalin, but neither of them were terribly fond of sharing their absolute power.
Viserys can only be argued to be a "bad guy" from a modern Earth POV (and even that's only really from a "Western" angle), with personal freedoms and rights treated as sacrosanct - virtual pillars of the cultures in which we live - and rule by the people is the de facto norm, where those who have what amounts to absolute authority are reviled as tyrants and oppressors. At literally any other point in human history, he would be considered an enlightened ruler, with nearly unparalleled generosity and wisdom.
Once a plurality of people realize greater freedom can be obtained, they will act to gain it. This doesn't always result in the violent demise or vilification of absolutist monarchs, though it had the unfortunate connotations of tyranny associated with it in the West.
I would say, as I did earlier, what makes it likely Viserys will actually hold onto his authority for a long time is all of the numerous external threats pressuring the Imperium toward centralization and stronger militant authority.
If we somehow eliminate every single external threat except the big ones which can't be fully defeated, merely suppressed (within short-time frames at any rate), all Asmodeus would have to do to is, honestly, chill out for five or six thousand years and come take another crack at it when it has splintered into so many ideologically divisive polities that they are unwilling or unable to fight back (or at the very least Viserys is too distracted to put a stop to some easy harvests).
Which is pretty much the thing. The Imperium is very much in the facist corner of political systems, with militarism, strong state control and all the other trappings. The main difference is that the threats both internal and external (Daemon cultists, Baator, Void, etc.) are not made up propaganda. They really exist and they really want everything to burn.
But one should keep in mind what the system we have built actually is and that other options existed. The alternative is Strong-Man shilling and the good old Hard Men making Hard Decisions while Hard. A lot of the bad stuff Viserys has done and keeps doing is strictly optional, but is being done because it gives him more personal and political power. We could have also become a wandering adventurer that helped those in need for free and united the world as a inspiring leader, instead of an absolute ruler.
And no, whatever beautiful arguments some people might now want to throw at me to justify these actions should keep in mind that they are just that. Justifications. Every Strong-Man has those.
Well, I'm not gonna stop you from making your case, you are entitled to your opinion, but unfortunately for you that opinion seeems to be the minority.
Well, I'm not gonna stop you from making your case, you are entitled to your opinion, but unfortunately for you that opinion seeems to be the minority.
We have a lot more houses in the Vale that are diametrically opposed to Viserys then those who would be willing to fall in line with him. We also have the Mountain Clans to keep in mind, who need enough land to farm and have some autonomy from their ancestral enemies. And the Old Gods want some Andal blood.
Oh no, the people that are very used to raids and skirmishes can't raid and skirmish while the levis are being raised. Your planned leads to burned villages and raped villagers.
The people who are raiding others are the Mountain Clans. The Andals, among which I'm sowing discord, are not doing things that way. They will raise levies and have a proper war with each other, if they had the half a year to accomplish that.
Look at what the Lords Declarant did against Baelish in canon and how much time they needed to get their asses in gear. The only thing happening as a result of this plot is that our opposition in the post-war reorganization and land reform will be deeply divided and thus far too weak to meaningfully oppose us.
Guys I think we should probably table the conquest discussion until there is a vote on it, discussing the particulars of the vague future can be tricky to do since nothing gets settled and the arguments go around and around. This isn't even a matter than can be decided in one vote but dozens of them possibly over months. It's impossible to come to a consensus on all of it now.
@DragonParadox, with the various fey we've been picking up (of different types, from Shadow of the Orphne Court, to Summer/Autumn from the Green Courts, to the Deep Courts) do they have different wardings and enchantments we could add to our repository?
While I'm not opposed to making Termini to the Plane of Water, I think this is the wrong moment to make those, since we don't have all that firm a diplomatic footing there. For this offer to make sense, we would also need multiple Termini in the PoW itself, otherwise they could just go to Vialisk and back.
So I'd say make a few Giant Friendly Crabs, some Hunter Jellyfish and a few Leshies.
@DragonParadox, with the various fey we've been picking up (of different types, from Shadow of the Orphne Court, to Summer/Autumn from the Green Courts, to the Deep Courts) do they have different wardings and enchantments we could add to our repository?
They do, not just wardings but other arcane traditions too. Rather than add specific 'fey wards' somewhere it would be neater to just knock progress needed off certain projects when fey knwolege is relevant. There is less to keep track of that way.
A bargain is struck a dozen times over, allegiance for protection in perpetuity for the sacred groves, each lord and lady of the fey to be granted the privileges and duties of a baron. Though many in the Greenwood were loath to answer to the word of mortal lords whom even the more kindly among them deemed blind and unknowing in the ways of magic and the land's secret paths, it was eventually agreed that they could bring such concerns to the Scholarum and from there would be guaranteed a royal audience in urgent matters. Thus over the sea in Sorcerer's Deep, Harbinger devils freed from the yoke of Mammon begin to craft a contract, like and yet unlike their previous fare. It would bind just as tightly lords and crown alike as any pact inked with iron and brimstone, but it was fairer by far in letter and in spirit than any of Hell's workings,
Although you know the pact will be signed, the fey of the Greenwood sworn to your banners, you would have to be deaf not to hear the grumbling of the wilder spirits. They would much rather have had a few days of ultimate freedom over carefully husbanded power and assured protection, and so you propose a festival in spring and one in fall to celebrate fertility and the cycles of the year, if not in so unrestrained in manner as some of the satyrs and their kin might wish. Your empire's laws stand against the worst of their impulses as surely as it does against the depravities of demons or the withering touch of Abaddon.
The festivals are not to be written in the contracts of vassalage their rules and strictures yet to be decided and changed as suits circumstances.
***
So it is that you move from woodlands to the shore to meet those who in the songs of faerie are remembered as the Courts of the Deep, the guardians of the secret places beneath the waves where no mortal eye has ever seen. Thankfully, here too you do not pass into their realm a stranger. Triton horns blow deep and sonorous, a greeting... and a song of mourning, for those you now swim to meet are not in truth the masters of the deep waters. Other darker things have long since taken their places, whom men have come to call by the same name for few but sages would know or care about the differences among those who dwell in the lightness places.
"Does it ever stop being strange to just walk into the ocean like this?" Asha asks from your right. In spite of her words, you do not miss the fact that she had chosen to be here with you and Ser Richard in place of Danar and Alyssa. The journey into the east had not slaked her desire for adventure but stoked it instead.
"Most things do," Ser Richard offers from your other side as he sinks into the waters of the Whispering Sound faster than any of the rest of you by virtue of his plate. "Watch out for things buried in the sand. They could bite your leg clean off at the knee..."
"Hey!" a small voice called from up ahead as a tiny figure emerges in a cloud of loose sand. "I resemble that!" The fey has skin the same color as the seafloor but marked with stripes that would help hide him among the swift moving shadows. His wings are more akin to the fins of shore fish, though you suspect he could fly if he had to. "The hiding part, not the biting off at the knee. You look really tough with all that ironmongery," he adds quickly.
As the sprite's gaze slides off Asha, he gives a charming smile. "Glad I am you did not take after him, oh bearer of the King's Mark. It would be a waste to hide thine beauty behind heavy iron."
Asha has clearly spent enough time around Moonsong not to be shocked at flirtation from a two foot tall sprite. "As it is a waste of my time to listen to compliments light as kelp strands on the tide."
"Ah... fair one, but the tide is not passing thing. Come, let me show you to him who has watched over it for time out of mind of thine folk," he replies.
Deeper you tread as the waters go from murky brown heavy with silt to clear cerulean under the light of the summer sky, mats of green algae pass above like clouds shading your path and all around you fey creatures great and small begin to make themselves known. You spy singers with hair of tangled kelp and Satyr's kin with horns grown long and pale as the crescent moon, a fish's tail in place of hooves, but the one who sits tangled around a throne of coral and crumbled stone is stranger by far to those who walk the drylands. In form something between squid and bearded worm, his face a nest of writhing tentacles, Grandfather Tide meets your gaze with eyes black as as star-strewn night reflected in deep waters.
"Hail, Prince of the Air, and to you also Child of Bright Mind," he whispers through the current, addressing you and the mind dragon by turn, before also turning to Asha. "Glad I am to see one of your line freed from the madness below, Salt-Born."
Asha bows slightly, though her hand is never far from her axe, obviously finding the company a touch more disquieting than flirtatious nixies.
"I have heard of your offer to the People of the Waves to dwell in houses of stone in the shadow of your palace," the strange fey continues, "But we are not as they are, of tide and currents born and to them bound evermore. Though we keep to the shallows, we cannot linger in one place overlong lest we drown like a shark tangled in mortal nets."
"In my realm there are many coasts and many ports for you to visit if such is your way. There is strength in gathering in purpose, and that strength shall be the doom of those who have taken the deep places from you."
"Your words are fair, King of Two Hearts, but that alone cannot be the price of our oaths, if you would bring us to war against the scourge of the depths, then we ask for protection in our wanderings as any vassal does of his lord."
What do you reply?
[] Assign flesh-forged beings to protect the various fey beings on their journeys
-[] Write in
[] Create paths to safe passages to the Endless Ocean in your realm allowing the fey to travel further than ever before (Commitment to creating several more terminals with access to the Plane of Water)
[] Write in
OOC: I changed out Danar and Alyssa for Asha who was free this month anyway because she plays off the sea fay much better than they do also it makes sense IC for her to look for a bit of adventure. Not yet edited.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, @DragonParadox.
We have a lot more houses in the Vale that are diametrically opposed to Viserys then those who would be willing to fall in line with him. We also have the Mountain Clans to keep in mind, who need enough land to farm and have some autonomy from their ancestral enemies. And the Old Gods want some Andal blood
Oh i know its beneficial for us, that was never in doubt. I am just pointing out that its lazy, so in that vein why not let the rape orgies go on, it would be cheapet than wasting sacrifice for no real benfits. Having some PR management would be cheaper instead of raising 12 tier 3 trees.
The people who are raiding others are the Mountain Clans. The Andals, among which I'm sowing discord, are not doing things that way. They will raise levies and have a proper war with each other, if they had the half a year to accomplish that.
Look at what the Lords Declarant did against Baelish in canon and how much time they needed to get their asses in gear. The only thing happening as a result of this plot is that our opposition in the post-war reorganization and land reform will be deeply divided and thus far too weak to meaningfully oppose us
You seem to be very sure that that is what they would do, we know from the dornish and reachs marcher lords that westros does have a history of raiding and skirmishes. And it doesn't take an genius to think that maybe we should steal the other guys grain because his lands are a few days ride away and it would bolster us and weaken them. They know its something you can do since they are always at war with the mountain clans. It would be the mosr obvious strategy and you can't expect us to believe no vale lords understand how raiding works and its benfits.
Oh i know its beneficial for us, that was never in doubt. I am just pointing out that its lazy, so in that vein why not let the rape orgies go on, it would be cheapet than wasting sacrifice for no real benfits. Having some PR management would be cheaper instead of raising 12 tier 3 trees.
You seem to be very sure that that is what they would do, we know from the dornish and reachs marcher lords that westros does have a history of raiding and skirmishes. And it doesn't take an genius to think that maybe we should steal the other guys grain because his lands are a few days ride away and it would bolster us and weaken them. They know its something you can do since they are always at war with the mountain clans. It would be the mosr obvious strategy and you can't expect us to believe no vale lords understand how raiding works and its benfits.
You seem to be very sure that that is what they would do, we know from the dornish and reachs marcher lords that westros does have a history of raiding and skirmishes. And it doesn't take an genius to think that maybe we should steal the other guys grain because his lands are a few days ride away and it would bolster us and weaken them. They know its something you can do since they are always at war with the mountain clans. It would be the mosr obvious strategy and you can't expect us to believe no vale lords understand how raiding works and its benfits.
It's worth keeping him mind that those sorts of tactics are disdained among the 'civilized lords' of the Vale. It's not that it does not happen at all, this is Westeros, but it's not common for them to fall back on 'savage tactics' unless one side is desperate.
We've got a huge contingent of aquatic Flesh-Forged servitors who we can assign as guardians for the Court of the Depths without needing to place an order in the Forges.
I don't think we should be stingy with what we assign them, either.
We've got a huge contingent of aquatic Flesh-Forged servitors who we can assign as guardians for the Court of the Depths without needing to place an order in the Forges.
I don't think we should be stingy with what we assign them, either.
For future reference (though that can still be a pain if you're trying to look while on your phone), the Forge Mechanics page has a list of everything we currently have available which is not already assigned somewhere (such as the guardians we are specifically growing this month)
My plan calls for assigning a bunch of aquatic servitors who are already active rather than growing new ones. We've already got so much growing this month that I don't see the need to add more onto that pile.
[X] Assign flesh-forged beings to protect the various fey beings on their journeys
-[X] 1 Grand Dragon Turtle (CR 15) -- 28,800 IM
-[X] 2 Seawyrms (CR 15) (28,800 IM each) -- 57,600 IM total.
-[X] 3x Half-Dragon Shipbreaker Crabs (28,800 IM each) -- 86,400 IM.
-[X] 25x Advanced Druid Creature Seaweed Leshy (1,200 IM each) -- 30,000 IM total.
-[X] 20x Advanced Dire Hunter Jellyfish (CR 10) (4,800 IM each) -- 96,000 IM total.
-[X] 40x Hunter Jellyfish (1,800 IM each) -- 72,000 IM total.
-[X] 50x Touguo (600 IM each) -- 30,000 IM total.
Will add the prices in a bit, again, I'm on a phone.
As for the why?
Well, the forces we currently have are all we have if illithids decide to attack anywhere this very month.
I'm a bit too paranoid to just throw these creatures the Fey's way when they could be needed to slow the squids' advance.
My plan calls for assigning a bunch of aquatic servitors who are already active rather than growing new ones. We've already got so much growing this month that I don't see the need to add more onto that pile.
But think about the poor Medusozoa and crustaceans! They are a very persecuted and underrepresented part of marine life, what with Cetaceans hogging all the spotlight.
Paranoia is all well and good, dude, but what I've got in my plan doesn't even represent 10% of our aquatic servitors. Remember, we've also got thousands of combat capable Tritons, many of which are dedicated warriors, two aquatic mercenary companies, and a huge amount of aquatic Undead.
In form something between squid and bearded worm, his face a nest of writhing tentacles, Grandfather Tide meets your gaze with eyes black as as star-strewn night reflected in deep waters.
But think about the poor Medusozoa and crustaceans! They are a very persecuted and underrepresented part of marine life, what with Cetaceans hogging all the spotlight.
It's the cuteness factor. It just can't be helped. 🥺
We'll grow plenty of crab and jellyfish monsters eventually, probably next month, but I would like to go ahead and have the Court of the Depths protected ASAP.
