so what is the plan with these rebels again? just make it not our problem and see if we can get something out of it? becouse we have a lot of allies who really don't like them and i don't really know what the plan is here
Milk them for useful knowledge and see if we can integrate them into the Imperium. The latter would be massively useful if we don't want to fight a millennia long guerrilla war even after their main bases and the Elder Brain are gone.
 
The latter would be massively useful if we don't want to fight a millennia long guerrilla war even after their main bases and the Elder Brain are gone.
That might be easier than it seems now.

Unlike most our enemies, more than any regular Outsiders, these creatures don't belong on our world.
And the Far Realm is, by WoG, harder to reach than the common Planeshift spells, so it is likely we are harder to reach from there too.

If we truly beat the Squids and kill the Brain, I suspect keeping them of this plane by some grand working should be possible.
At least far closer to completly possible than doing so for Fiends. Nevermind Fey, which are part of the world, regardless if we like it or not.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 13, 2020 at 7:51 AM, finished with 68 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Plan Trust Building
    -[X] Offer to share knowledge about the bases of the loyalist Illithid and inform them about the locations where you have set up Anti-Illithid defenses. No details on what those defenses are and make it clear that if they get caught, they will be killed, last but not least because we couldn't reliably ID them, but you are offering a fair chance to avoid them to prevent further collateral damage incidents such as Volmark.
    -[X] You are furthermore mainly interested in knowledge. About their operation, their goals, psionics and fleshcrafting mostly. If they are willing to offer any of that, you will hear out what they expect in return.
    -[X] Things you are willing to agree to in turn:
    --[X] Payment in raw materials or planar currency.
    --[X] Some lore in return (non-sensitive only, nothing with military applications).
    --[X] Rings of sustenance to eliminate the need of their members to feed on sentient humanoids, which would make further cooperation more palatable to you and their logistics much easier. You are also interested in creating a mass producible food substitute for Illithidae that has all the flavor and none of the murder of the genuine article, though that is mostly an idle thought at this point due to the lack of detailed knowledge on the Illithid biology. (Hint Hint, Nudge Nudge)
    -[X] You are also open to lend disposable and deniable assets for attacks on loyalist Illithid, though this is most likely not in any way interesting for them right now.
    -[X] After the first round of haggling is done, see where you stand with each other and ponder if additional questions might be in the cards right now.
    [X] Plan for Integration
    -[X] "To think that we who are so alien in nature could have so much in common. I have lost track of how often either I, or an intermediary speaking in my name, have opened negotiations with little trust between myself and the one to whom I spoke. Yet, from these first hesitant bargains, an empire was forged. Three times before have I struck such bargains with denizens of the Far Realm in good faith, and from those meetings I count fair transactions, an honest ally, and truest friend, respectively. Because of these experiences I know that if the interest of our peoples are to remain inimical, that will be a path we have chosen to walk rather than one forced upon us by our divergent natures.
    -[X] "As King, I have a duty to my people. I will see them protected from predation, but I know my reach is currently limited. Therefore, I seek an alliance against a common foe."
    -[X] Terms and conditions (the Separatists can pick as many as they will agree to):
    --[X] Non-aggression pact. The Separatists will not raid any land's under the Imperium's protection. In return, the Imperium will not actively seek out and destroy any Separatist holdings. Frame this as extending the terms of the treaty we have with the Loyalists to the Separatist, though we would not allow them to tear the spirit of the agreement to tatters as the Loyalists have done.
    --[X] Ethical food sources. Requires the acceptance of a non-aggression pact. Separatists agree to limit their feeding on thinking beings in lands outside of Imperial protection to what is strictly necessary. We'd work towards providing Rings of Sustenance to eliminate that necessity. We also would work to develop alternate forms of nutrition as we know a demand to "never eat naturally again" will break down in the long run.
    --[X] Intelligence sharing agreement. Requires both non-aggression pact and ethical food sources. We would begin sharing information about Loyalist operations with an eye towards stymying their efforts.
    --[X] Lore sharing agreement. Requires both non-aggression pact and ethical food sources. We would begin offering the trade of mystic lore, negotiated on a case-by-case basis. We are particularly interested in psionics and fleshcraft, and can offer lore, currency, or resources in exchange.
    --[X] Joint military operations. Requires non-aggression pact, ethical food sources, and military intelligence. We would begin organizing joint military operations against the Loyalists. This would primarily take the form of them provided intelligence that we could choose to act on without their direct involvement, us providing non-sentient creatures as reinforcement for any raids they may conduct, and collaboration on mystic rituals as necessary.
    --[X] Official recognition. If the Separatists agree to all the above, and relationships work out in the long term, the Imperium will officially recognize the Separatists as allies. However, this would require the Separatists outright cease hostility against civilians, even those outside the Imperium's protection, once we find a solution to their nutritional demands.
    -[X] If the Separatists agree to at least the non-aggression pact and will consider more, request that they appoint a diplomatic liaison to the Imperium. The liaison(s) would be given a Ring of Sustenance while it remains in the Imperium. Be upfront about keeping them under careful watch, but we would otherwise presume good faith. If negotiations break down for reasons other than the liaison abusing their access to the Imperium, we will allow the liaison to depart in peace. We will swear this before Yss, if they do not trust our word.
 
Part MMMCDXLX: A Meeting of Minds
A Meeting of Minds

Twenty-Ninth Day of the Twelfth Month 293 AC

The discussion that follows is tentative to say the least. It is clear the being before you knows more than enough about dragons in general and you in particular to be wary whereas for your part, though you had come here with only Varys for company, you are quite aware that the greatest of doppelgangers can only be judged by the quality of their latest meals, anything from an archmage to a master swordsman.

"And part of you finds that prospect quite intriguing. How many foes had powers you could put to use but you dared not recruit?" your familiar hisses in your mind amused.

She is not wrong, but on the matter of 'Throfin's' meals you have a wider concern than how he might be of service: "I am willing to facilitate trade in raw materials, planar currency as well as select enchantments such as rings of sustenance."

"So that we do not snatch up fishermen in the night to feast upon, yes?" the shapeshifter laughs, the sound disturbingly warm and rich, as though it were designed to project confidence. "Worry not, the Convergence would be fools to draw attention to ourselves thus. All of us who must feed upon mind and flesh have sustainable sources available to us, though it is more complex than simply one of your pretty rings unfortunately." He pauses a moment, one long-fingered stroking his chin in thought before finally deciding. "For those of us who must feast upon memories and thoughts failing to do so risks the fracture of our own mindscapes as the mechanisms of subsumption turn inwards and cannibalize the mind, a terrible fate."

"But you discovered a way to avoid it?" you ask, curious as to how that might relate to the Many and their less destructive feeding. You are planning to share lore after all as long as it has no dangerous application, and knowledge on how illithidae could feed without preying upon other intelligent beings is the very opposite of dangerous. You want them to have it.

"Yes, it is one of our many grand discoveries having been freed from the Great Deceiver's tyranny." Or it could have been known for centuries or millennia and simply not practiced, you add mentally. Still, you are reasonably certain they have a means to feed unobtrusively. It would be a logical branch of research for any beings so restricted by nature out of simple practicality.

After explaining about the Many, your willingness to share lore in general and the limits thereof you lay out what you would most desire out of the deal; knowledge of psionics and flesh-crafting as well as whatever they are willing to share about their operations and goals. "In exchange I will freely offer the location of defenses against the Deep Ones in general. It would be to the benefit of all if you were to avoid them..." Because any who do not will be dead. There is no need to add the last aloud.

"The objectives of the Convergence are easy enough to guess I imagine given your own intellect and your investigations, Dragonlord. Firstly, to shatter the Great Liar's dominion over its mortal puppets while preventing the fey or inimical gods from gaining ascendancy. Secondly, to sow that rebellion within the thralls that dwell beneath the waves."

Sahuagin and ultat-kini worship the Drowned God... All at once the cabal's plans take on a much grander scope. It is one thing to change the faith of the Ironborn, to spread it throughout Westeros, quite another to shift the foundation upon which the lives of countless undersea slaves are built. Ambitious seems too small a word for it, yet what choice do any rebels pitted against the crushing will of the Elder Brain have?

"I am also willing to lend deniable assets for attacks upon loyalist forces," you say with more conviction than you thought you would. Depending on what they offer those assets might be more numerous and more valuable than you had initially anticipated.

"I have been authorized to request access to all your knowledge of gods and their shaping in exchange for knowledge of the mind arts," your host replies, a smile in his tone if not on his face. "This lore ranges from simple memory crystals to a teacher to the use of full mental reformation, to be verified by your own mind mages of course. We are not at this point willing to trade in flesh-craft unless you wish an exchange in kind."

What do you reply?

[] Take the psionics trade
-[] Just basic lore (+10 Knwolege Psionics) in exchange for access to all common lore on divinity
-[] Access to mid level psionics teachers for the Scholarum/Inquisition in exchange for information on the interactions between the Dreamlands, the fey and divinity
-[] Use of Psychic Reformation and Psychic Chirurgery on individuals with latent talents in exchange for assigning one of the researchers previously assigned to god-crafting to help the Convergence

[] Take Flesh-Smithing trade
-[] Write in non-military applicable flesh-smithing and what you might wish in exchange

[] You have learned enough for now

[] Write in


OOC: Technically access to the Light of Creation would also count for third tier psionics, but that would be vastly unwise given how livid R'hllor would be that you shared it with illithid, so Viserys dismissed it out of hand in character.
 
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"God crafting"
"Illithids".


[X] Take the psionics trade
-[X] Just basic lore (+10 Knwolege Psionics) in exchange for access to all common lore on divinity
 
in exchange for information on the interactions between the Dreamlands, the fey and divinity
Aldo, @DragonParadox, we arguably don't even have this knowledge ourselves.

We haven't completed any of the requisite first steps on the Godcrafting tree after all (beyond learning how to make anchores like OGs Heart Trees, but even that is too specific to OGs and too basic overall).
 
Aldo, @DragonParadox, we arguably don't even have this knowledge ourselves.

We haven't completed any of the requisite first steps on the Godcrafting tree after all (beyond learning how to make anchores like OGs Heart Trees, but even that is too specific to OGs and too basic overall).

You do not have the finished research, but you have enough to point them in the right direction. Keep in mind there are likely not a lot of ilithid with +24 knowledge nature before bonuses which is the skill you need to understand the deeper nature of the fey.
 
All of these are potentially great options, but this is a first meeting between previously inimical powers, so let's start slow.

The Convergence could gather the Knowledge (Religion) lore they need without our assistance, but it would be more difficult and time consuming, just as we could eventually do the same with Psionics. This option is somewhat more convenient for both of us, while also helping to establish the foundation of what might eventually become a more solid working relationship.

[X] Take the psionics trade
-[X] Just basic lore (+10 Knowledge Psionics) in exchange for access to all common lore on divinity
 
Because the trade doesn't look... quite equal if we are sharing it all for mere +10 to Psionics.

It bears keeping in mind that knowledge of psionics is far rarer than knwolege of mortal religions. By comparison +10 knowledge religion bearely even hints of the deeper aspects of gods and divine magic, it's just a well stocked library of theology. They probably have that much already.
 
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Aaaand also a third post b/c I'm only thinking about it jow.
@DragonParadox, we have a... fairly huge amount of Knowledge (Religion) in our library.
How much of it is the "all common lore on divinity"?
Because the trade doesn't look... quite equal if we are sharing it all for mere +10 to Psionics.
Religion lore can be gathered anywhere, while Psionics lore is much more limited.

As I said in my previous post, however, this is mostly a matter of convenience that allows us to get our diplomatic foot in the door, so to speak.
 
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The Flesh Smithing lore sounds very useful.

For example, @DragonParadox, could we ask for spare corpses so we can make new templates and creatures?
I doubt they have anything we want that they are willing to trade to us right now without asking for something in return which we are ourselves not willing to trade.

Maybe wait until the second or third date?
 
Sure you could do a write in to that effect, though you would ahve to include what you would like to pay in.
Excellent. Can we get a general idea of what templates and creatures they have to offer?
I doubt they have anything we want that they are willing to trade to us right now without asking for something in return which we are ourselves not willing to trade.

Maybe wait until the second or third date?
We can trade in magic items or flesh-forged beasts. While not precisely what they want, it's undeniably useful to them nonetheless.
 
Excellent. Can we get a general idea of what templates and creatures they have to offer?

We can trade in magic items or flesh-forged beasts. While not precisely what they want, it's undeniably useful to them nonetheless.

Just note here, if you do trade in beasts, expect them to be able to take them apart and make more. You won't really have a market for more than one of every kind.
 
How about we trade them some samples from the Mindeater Dragon in return for Illithid samples? Particularly tadpoles and information on how Ceremorphosis works.
 
No way, dude. I'm completely opposed to trading them Forged servitors.
As a note I'm not talking about sentient vassals, but non-sentient beasts. That's what the "deniable assets" we talked about in the update were. Either way I can tell this is going to be like arguing with a brick wall and I don't have the energy or the willpower, so we can make do with magic items instead.
 
Vehement opposition.

It's worth noting these guys aren't the good guys. And probably will never be.

But coexistence might be possible while not compromising the safety of our future subjects.
 
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