Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
BronzeTongue said:
I'm not trying to relitigate anything, or grasp for any sort of fig leaf moral affectations. I would like to point out that one of the key distinctions between Viserys and a powerful devil is that he tends towards enlightened self interest and avoids unnecessary destruction. Little stuff like this blurs that line in a way that I feel lessens his character.

If I'm the only one who feels that way I can drop the debate to avoid thread salt, but I wanted to clarify my position on why stuff like this is an issue to me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As I've said. My motivation is that I think it's politically better for us if he is really dead and if we kill him, we might as well harvest the template in the process instead of having to invest valuable research time into this.
 
Azel said:
As I've said. My motivation is that I think it's politically better for us if he is really dead and if we kill him, we might as well harvest the template in the process instead of having to invest valuable research time into this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Being able to avoid research time would definitely be a boon.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I'm not saying humans should get to be a special category here, but that doesn't change that we don't typically just up and kill people without provocation. The devil summoning is a thorny issue, I would point out that we usually go after the names of devils related to plots on Planetos first, and tend to banish things that don't flip to our side.

I'm not trying to say that Viserys is or needs to be a font of mercy, but there is a difference between ruthless pragmatism and callous cruelty.

Moreover, just because we've done something once in one context doesn't make it the new bar for our general behavior in all of them. That was the Cat's argument about us and we rightfully laughed in his face about it.

It's hard to have a discussion about practical ethics here since the thread views it in about the same light as taking a bubble bath in battery acid. It makes it easy to take a number of excessive choices since no one can frame an objection in a way that avoids a conversation they don't want to have.

I'm not trying to relitigate anything, or grasp for any sort of fig leaf moral affectations. I would like to point out that one of the key distinctions between Viserys and a powerful devil is that he tends towards enlightened self interest and avoids unnecessary destruction. Little stuff like this blurs that line in a way that I feel lessens his character.

If I'm the only one who feels that way I can drop the debate to avoid thread salt, but I wanted to clarify my position on why stuff like this is an issue to me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree with all of this.


[X] Goldfish
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Apr 4, 2020 at 3:18 PM, finished with 107 posts and 21 votes.
  • [X] Keep Old Jon aside for later recruitment. Studying his curse could reveal new things about lycanthropy in general, and in the worst case where you hit a brick wall he could infect an enemy later on so that you could break down the template from the roots up in the Flesh Forge. Shield his presence from Fey divination with a Shadowforged Mindblank.
    --[X] Bring Lord Luthor to Lord Elwood and break down the chain of events, barring the previously mentioned detail. The original silver beast died of his wounds and you have already taken the corpse in for study of their affliction. Whatever Lord Elwood's decision regarding his father is, you have enough leverage at this point over both of them that if you are forced to break the latter's curse, you can press the Lord into making changes suited for your own style of rulership, and if he fails to measure up to them, you can ensure a competent Lord over these lands by taking Lord Elwood in to learn in Sorcerer's Deep, both of magic so he is better equipped to deal with the troubles of these times, but also compassion among others not quite so heartless as both of his parents.
    [X] Plan Grabbing Everything Of Value And Cleaning Up Loose Ends
    -[X] Attempt to recruit Old Jon, offering him a stipend in return for letting the Scholarium study his condition. When the research is finished, he will be relocated elsewhere in the Imperium, to a locale where he will not need to resort to poaching to survive.
    -[X] Use one or more Miracle spells to scour all remnants of Luthor, Old Jon, and his family from the forest, removing the abandoned home, dried blood, their graves, etc., so that there will be little to no evidence of what really happened.
    -[X] Lord Luthor will be fed to the Flesh Forge to gain the Wereboar Template and hopefully more knowledge about lycanthropy in general.
    -[X] Allow Lord Elwood to hold on to his prejudice against magic and his mother to keep her secrets. For now.
    [x] Awaken Lord Luthor and clear his mind, tell him that as his king, you have sentenced him to abdicate in favor of his son for incompetence and cruelty
Click to expand...
 
I was going to post another long winded message about character drift, but I think all of our positions are clear by this point. Better to just move on until it comes up again in a way that changes something about the argument.

So, on the topic of Moonchaser improvements, how do you guys feel aboutDust of Weighty Burdens? Paintballs or something would make an interesting point defense against pursuers. Forcing a bunch of fort saves is better than trying to target hp. Air burst explosives with this stuff packed in with the shrapnel would also be a fun AA defense.
 
BronzeTongue said:
So, on the topic of Moonchaser improvements, how do you guys feel aboutDust of Weighty Burdens? Paintballs or something would make an interesting point defense against pursuers. Forcing a bunch of fort saves is better than trying to target hp. Air burst explosives with this stuff packed in with the shrapnel would also be a fun AA defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Interesting. Air burst weapons are something we talked about earlier.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I was going to post another long winded message about character drift, but I think all of our positions are clear by this point. Better to just move on until it comes up again in a way that changes something about the argument.

So, on the topic of Moonchaser improvements, how do you guys feel about Dust of Weighty Burdens? Paintballs or something would make an interesting point defense against pursuers. Forcing a bunch of fort saves is better than trying to target hp. Air burst explosives with this stuff packed in with the shrapnel would also be a fun AA defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I've never noticed that stuff before. I don't see it being very useful against larger enemy targets, such as ships or Dragons, but against smaller creatures, especially those flying using wings, could be in for a world of hurt. Going from a lean mean 120 pounds of feathered aerial badass to a lean mean 1120 pound of rapidly plummeting buzzard bait can't be very fun at all. :lol:
 
BronzeTongue said:
I was going to post another long winded message about character drift, but I think all of our positions are clear by this point. Better to just move on until it comes up again in a way that changes something about the argument.

So, on the topic of Moonchaser improvements, how do you guys feel aboutDust of Weighty Burdens? Paintballs or something would make an interesting point defense against pursuers. Forcing a bunch of fort saves is better than trying to target hp. Air burst explosives with this stuff packed in with the shrapnel would also be a fun AA defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sounds like a decent addition to the ammo stocks of the point-defense turrets, but I don't see it as ammo for the main weapons.
 
[X] Goldfish

I agree with the basics, though I'd like to have the inquisition keep an eye on the new lord, simply to protect the peasants from any harassment stemming from this. It should also give us enough information later whether we need to remove the mother or the young lord as well.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 4, 2020 at 4:39 PM, finished with 116 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Keep Old Jon aside for later recruitment. Studying his curse could reveal new things about lycanthropy in general, and in the worst case where you hit a brick wall he could infect an enemy later on so that you could break down the template from the roots up in the Flesh Forge. Shield his presence from Fey divination with a Shadowforged Mindblank.
    --[X] Bring Lord Luthor to Lord Elwood and break down the chain of events, barring the previously mentioned detail. The original silver beast died of his wounds and you have already taken the corpse in for study of their affliction. Whatever Lord Elwood's decision regarding his father is, you have enough leverage at this point over both of them that if you are forced to break the latter's curse, you can press the Lord into making changes suited for your own style of rulership, and if he fails to measure up to them, you can ensure a competent Lord over these lands by taking Lord Elwood in to learn in Sorcerer's Deep, both of magic so he is better equipped to deal with the troubles of these times, but also compassion among others not quite so heartless as both of his parents.
    [X] Plan Grabbing Everything Of Value And Cleaning Up Loose Ends
    -[X] Attempt to recruit Old Jon, offering him a stipend in return for letting the Scholarium study his condition. When the research is finished, he will be relocated elsewhere in the Imperium, to a locale where he will not need to resort to poaching to survive.
    -[X] Use one or more Miracle spells to scour all remnants of Luthor, Old Jon, and his family from the forest, removing the abandoned home, dried blood, their graves, etc., so that there will be little to no evidence of what really happened.
    -[X] Lord Luthor will be fed to the Flesh Forge to gain the Wereboar Template and hopefully more knowledge about lycanthropy in general.
    -[X] Allow Lord Elwood to hold on to his prejudice against magic and his mother to keep her secrets. For now.
    [x] Awaken Lord Luthor and clear his mind, tell him that as his king, you have sentenced him to abdicate in favor of his son for incompetence and cruelty
Click to expand...
 
Remove ads
Part MMMCDXXVII: A Harvest of Ash and Flesh
  • Threadmarks
    • A Harvest of Ash and Flesh​

    Twenty-Sixth Day of the Twelfth Month 293 AC

    Only one of the two Lya had bound to slumber would ever wake, you decide at last. The boy lord and his prejudices and his mother's schemes would be far easier to deal with than a lord who had shown himself to be a fool and a tyrant both. As Ser Richard shakes the 'boar' awake you are prepared to cast a spell to clear his mind should the pain of all he had endured cloud his reason. It does not.

    An old man, his face tanned and cranked by the sun and wind for a score winters looks back at you with deep brown eyes that almost remind you of the quiet sorrow. "He's gone is he?"

    "Forever," you pledge and something about your voice or your manner seems to resonate within him for he accepts your words before even learning your name. Having nothing to stay here for he takes your offer of a stipend and a home in your lands readily, specifying only that it should not be in Sorcerer's Deep itself, but somewhere he could roam freely.

    He takes on beast shape again as he watches fire and sorcery consume every trace of his former life from these woods. Perhaps that makes it easier to bear the sight.

    Regardless, this is one mystery that will not be lightly unraveled much less showing your hand in it.

    ***​

    After seeing your newest guest into the capable hands of a clerk used to dealing with all manner of new arrivals to the Deep you travel to Sothoryos carrying the unconscious form of the erstwhile lord of Grassy Vale. Elaheh Marita giggles at the sight, the sound changing timbre and tone midway in her excitement. "Not just a sharpeshifter, some sort of celestial influence perhaps?"

    "Yes, though not quite in the way you mean," you motion at the moon hanging overhead. "Power waxing and waning with its phases. There is another who bears this blessing who agreed to help with studies into these magics."

    "Excellent," she motions at two of the lesser caretaker constructs of the Forge to carry Luthor into its depths from whence he would never return.

    Gained Wereboar Template

    Gained Silverblood Lycanthrope (Can only be applied to wereboars for the moment)

    "Well is that... productive, if not quite in the way I expected it to be," Lya says ruefully, turning away from the passage where the flesh-smith had vanished. "Who do you think we should approach next?"

    ***​

    House Blackbar of Bandallon presented a particular concern ever since you had heard of it's lord's grudge against all things Dornish. Just this month you have been to Surspear in the company of Doran Martell whom you count among your strongest and most trusted bannermen in Westeros, a fact you could not truly hide even if you wished to do so. Yet the news that Lord Tybalt had refused the envoys of the Court of Stars and their bargain made you more hopeful that you could persuade him to accept your rule, of not perhaps love you for it.

    In this both Ser Richard and Lya's presence at your side are likely to help. Stormlanders are hardly famed for their love of Dorne or her people and Lya as your future queen should hopefully go a ways to assuring him that you have no intention to favor one of the Seven Kingdoms over the others. Nothing you have heard about the Lord of Bandallon makes you think he is worried about all foreign influences at least, only the Dornish.

    How do you approach Lord Tybalt Blackbar?

    [] Write in

    OOC: It's way too late for a fourth update unfortunately, but hopefully I'll get more written tomorrow.
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Well, we're not favoring Kingdoms, if that's his concern. Houses, yes, and if this or that kingdom just so happens to be more aligned to our way of thinking that's, as unbelievable as it sounds, just coincidence.

    Now, BAAVOS on the other hand...

    Then again, Braavos isn't a kingdom.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Gained Wereboar Template

    Gained Silverblood Lycanthrope (Can only be applied to wereboars for the moment)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Excellent, we'll be putting these to use.
    DragonParadox said:
    House Blackbar of Bandallon presented a particular concern ever since you had heard of it's Lord's grudge against at things Dornish . Just this month you have been to Surspear in the company of Doran Martell whom you count among your strongest and most trusted bannermen in Westeros, a fact you could not truly hide even if you wished to do so. Yet the news that Lord Tybalt had refused the envoys of the Court of Stars their bargain made you more hopeful that you could persuade him to accept your rule, of not perhaps love you for it.

    In this both Ser Richard and Lya's presence at your side are likely to help. Stormlanders are hardly famed for their love of Dorne or her people and Lya as your future queen should hopefully go away to assuring him that you have no intention to favor one of the Seven Kingdoms over the others. Nothing you have heard about the lord of Bandallon makes you think he is worried about all foreign influences at least, only the Dornish.

    How do you approach Lord Tybalt Blackbar?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    At a bare minimum we should be able to convince him that we're a far better deal than the Court of Stars.
     
    I've updated the Forge Mechanics page with the new Lycanthrope (Wereboar) and Silverblood Lycanthrope (Wereboar) templates.
     
    [X] Discover if there's any entanglements or means to make Lord Blackbar's first impression of you a favorable one. He will probably meet with you, but you would rather he not walk into that meeting prepared to turn you away out of hand, but instead be open to hearing you out.
     
    ryuan said:
    Well, we're not favoring Kingdoms, if that's his concern. Houses, yes, and if this or that kingdom just so happens to be more aligned to our way of thinking that's, as unbelievable as it sounds, just coincidence.

    Now, BAAVOS on the other hand...

    Then again, Braavos isn't a kingdom.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Seriously though, Bravosi historians have earned the right to be a little smug in their chapter of the modern history textbooks. Not that l trust them to avoid rubbing it in. :V

    History Book: " Chapter Five: Fire, Blood, and Bravos"

    "... While the Bravosi are famed for their skill at divination in business, their first and perhaps greatest act of foresight actually fell in the realm of geopolitics..."

    "... As the people of Volantis finally came to see what the Bravosi had seen in the then young emperor Viserys Targaryen..."
     
    [X] crake

    we should see if we can work out Therianthropes at some point now that we have Lycanthropes. Since their natural form is the animal shape they have a lot of potential as infiltrators. You'd hardly suspect the Donkey you rented to be spying on you after all, and since it's natural form is the animal shape true seeing and similar effects won't see anything weird.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top