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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
It's farther away and I trust Zherys to find someone who can both teach her and hide the body if it becomes necessary.

Nothing I can think of.
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We could also send her to the Naathi branch of the Scholarium. Wyla will keep her straight, and it would be easy for her to have an "accident" out there on the frontier.
 
Artemis1992 said:
To be clear, the compulsion was long over.
They just used it to plant the idea and push her towards it, after she left her house she was basically "clean" in a magical sense, there are no effects that could run out or so.
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I thought the compulsion lasted till one of our mages cleared it out? If that isn't the case then it changes a bit I guess. At least now the Eldest has to live with the knowledge of what happened to her.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
I thought the compulsion lasted till one of our mages cleared it out? If that isn't the case then it changes a bit I guess. At least now the Eldest has to live with the knowledge of what happened to her.
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No, they propably used stuff like Suggestion.
If the target fails its save, they don't realise the suggestion was magic and if it's repeated a few times that person will likely think it was their own idea to start with.
The spell itself doesn't last long.
 
Duesal said:
This is another one of those times where our opinions will diverge.

In some crimes it doesn't matter how "justified" the criminal feels, the crime was still committed and must be punished in some fashion. Here, the younger sister brainwashed the elder and sent her off potentially to her death.
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It absolutely matter here though, because I'm not feeling particularly good, about putting someone in charge of a fiefdom, who was so unpleasant, her own sister hated her enough to use mind control to dispose of her.

Part of my vote, is finding out if the older sister is at all suitable for ruling, I don't feel like putting an evil tyrant in charge, and we don't know if that's what the older sister is.
 
[X] Azel

"Congratulations, you've won the stupid game! Tell her what's she's won Dany!"

"A one way trip to a forign land and a forgettable life away from anyone she's ever known!"

"Of course if you're not happy with that prize we do offer a secondary gift. One hanging, no waiting, and an express trip to the Seven with our compliments. First class of course, no expense spared for nobility."
 
tarrangar said:
It absolutely matter here though, because I'm not feeling particularly good, about putting someone in charge of a fiefdom, who was so unpleasant, her own sister hated her enough to use mind control to dispose of her.

Part of my vote, is finding out if the older sister is at all suitable for ruling, I don't feel like putting an evil tyrant in charge, and we don't know if that's what the older sister is.
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We have had said sister with us for over a month now. Under supervision. @DragonParadox what kind of girl is the Vaela Toland? Does she seem the type to be cruel and tyrannous?
 
tarrangar said:
It absolutely matter here though, because I'm not feeling particularly good, about putting someone in charge of a fiefdom, who was so unpleasant, her own sister hated her enough to use mind control to dispose of her.

Part of my vote, is finding out if the older sister is at all suitable for ruling, I don't feel like putting an evil tyrant in charge, and we don't know if that's what the older sister is.
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*looks at the realms top nobles*

I'm pretty sure we've put quite a few evil or morally dubious tyrants in charge of a good chunk of the known world.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
We have had said sister with us for over a month now. Under supervision. @DragonParadox what kind of girl is the Vaela Toland? Does she seem the type to be cruel and tyrannous?
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Viserys would have to go look, it was rather beneath his level of concern, but from his reading of Teora she was almost certainly abused to some extent. The comparison to Sam Tarly is not idle. That said Sam Tarly did not choose to twist someone's mind when he got magic so it's not like abuse is a blank check to violate the minds of others.
 
tarrangar said:
It absolutely matter here though, because I'm not feeling particularly good, about putting someone in charge of a fiefdom, who was so unpleasant, her own sister hated her enough to use mind control to dispose of her.

Part of my vote, is finding out if the older sister is at all suitable for ruling, I don't feel like putting an evil tyrant in charge, and we don't know if that's what the older sister is.
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Let me put it like this. Vetinari (of discworld fame) is quite evil, but he's productive, a forward thinker, and not inept at leadership.

Evil doesn't mean she'd be a bad ruler, hell tyrannical doesn't mean she'd be a bad ruler either. It's only if she's short sighted and stupid that we'd have a problem.

We just need to make sure she's competent, not moral. Personally I'd prefer if she was immoral, those people are easier to predict.
 
DragonParadox said:
Viserys would have to go look, it was rather beneath his level of concern, but from his reading of Teora she was almost certainly abused to some extent. The comparison to Sam Tarly is not idle. That said Sam Tarly did not choose to twist someone's mind when he got magic so it's not like abuse is a blank check to violate the minds of others.
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Sam Tarly is a good person. Cowardly at times...but a good person. Speaking of, how is he doing? Last I remembered he was starting his apprenticeship under Lya. Has that made any fruition? Also how are Thoros Voronys, Joran and the druid twins doing? We have not checked up on Thoros in a while now and am very curious. And the twins and druids are of interest for future adventures.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Sam Tarly is a good person. Cowardly at times...but a good person. Speaking of, how is he doing? Last I remembered he was starting his apprenticeship under Lya. Has that made any fruition? Also how are Thoros Voronys, Joran and the druid twins doing? We have not checked up on Thoros in a while now and am very curious. And the twins and druids are of interest for future adventures.
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I'll roll and cover them a bit later IC, I don't want to toss up answers OOC off the top of my head.
 
DragonParadox said:
Viserys would have to go look, it was rather beneath his level of concern, but from his reading of Teora she was almost certainly abused to some extent. The comparison to Sam Tarly is not idle. That said Sam Tarly did not choose to twist someone's mind when he got magic so it's not like abuse is a blank check to violate the minds of others.
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Yeah but it's still a mitigating circumstance, I would say that considering that, it at least mean that it's safe to just enroll Teora in the Scholarium in SD, as she's unlikely to even consider doing such things again, in an environment where she's not essentially the whipping girl for her family.
 
DragonParadox said:
Viserys would have to go look, it was rather beneath his level of concern, but from his reading of Teora she was almost certainly abused to some extent. The comparison to Sam Tarly is not idle. That said Sam Tarly did not choose to twist someone's mind when he got magic so it's not like abuse is a blank check to violate the minds of others.
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This is why I would prefer to keep her in SD. She can learn how to be a responsible mage while helping in the Houses of Healing.

What she did was wrong, but not completely unjustified. She's not an irredeemable monster, after all.

I don't think sending her to Volantis is going to do much to educate or reform her, @Azel, except maybe sharpen her edges and teach her how to more thoroughly engage in magical politics, neither of which is really advantageous for us.
 
[X] Azel


Political convenience is the only reason she gets to stick around. Let's see what she does with a good teacher and a ton of ethics courses.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Mar 18, 2020 at 9:40 AM, finished with 80 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Lay out the facts:
    -[X] Revealing this matter in public and punishing her in accordance with the gravity of her betrayal and violation of her own kin would be politically inconvenient to you.
    -[X] Therefore, she will stay in SD for the afternoon, admit to dabbling in magic and after a fortunate turn of events will leave a favorable impression with a volantene mage, who will offer to teach her.
    -[X] You will of course help her to convince her mother what a great opportunity that is.
    -[X] Make it absolutely clear that this is not leniency or the result of any fondness for her. This is politically more convenient then having her tried and hanged for illegal mindcontrol and ursupation.
    -[X] You will never hear from her again. No troubles. No questionable behaviour. The Volantene mage will make sure of it.
    -[X] Contact Zherys to find a mage to tutor her.
    -[X] Proceed to talk with the elder daughter and convince her to go home and resume her duties as heiress.
    [X] We will speak with Vaela and try to convince her to return to Dorne to assume the responsibilities of being her mother's heir. Unless she has a compelling reason to refuse, we will use the full weight of our magically augmented social skills to pressure her to return.
    -[X] Torea will be given the choice of accepting whatever punishment her mother deems fit, begging Doran for mercy, or remanding herself into our custody.
    --[X] If she chooses to remain in our custody, her mother and sister need not learn of her crimes. She will be enrolled in the Scholarium to better learn how to responsibly use her magic while spending most of her free time working in one of the Houses of Healing for the next two years. Her eventual fate will be determined based on her behavior and attitude two years hence.
    [x] have a talk with both the sisters, find out which of them would make the better Lady, and find out what caused this feud in the first place.
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DragonParadox said:
Viserys would have to go look, it was rather beneath his level of concern, but from his reading of Teora she was almost certainly abused to some extent. The comparison to Sam Tarly is not idle. That said Sam Tarly did not choose to twist someone's mind when he got magic so it's not like abuse is a blank check to violate the minds of others.
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Mind that it wasn't even a one-time thing.

It was a well planned and careful effort, carried out over weeks. This is what legal systems like to call "intent". If she had roasted her mother with a Fireball in a moment of distress, we could go on about mitigating circumstances, distress and what have you. Argue for manslaughter, not murder, and keep the sentence lenient.

This though? She had the deliberate intent. She had ample time to reverse course. If she had used poison instead of enchantments, this would be First Degree Murder and a open and shut one at that.

Circumstances don't matter when you calmly and without duress make a choice to commit a crime.
tarrangar said:
Yeah but it's still a mitigating circumstance, I would say that considering that, it at least mean that it's safe to just enroll Teora in the Scholarium in SD, as she's unlikely to even consider doing such things again, in an environment where she's not essentially the whipping girl for her family.
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This is nonsense. If she was an adult, male slaver getting rid of his older sibling, you would be baying for his blood. She is as guilty as you can get and no amount of bad home life can justify this.
 
[X] Azel

Im shocked she got away with this the first time. Finally, let's stop this mind controlling noble from usurping the inheritance of her sister.
 
My plan isn't much different from Azel's but it just keeps Teora closer and doesn't pawn her off on to Zherys for him to handle. It also makes better use of her abilities.
 
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