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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Curious, how far along are our highways/bridges? Do we have to update them to link up with existing roads for our more eastern holdings?
 
Massgamer said:
Curious, how far along are our highways/bridges? Do we have to update them to link up with existing roads for our more eastern holdings?
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Yes and no.

A great amount of progress has been made on main highway links, bridges across rivers, canals in key areas to ease trade and travel, etc.

But these are all major projects. As far as connecting all of the smaller settlements to major roads, it's a slogging work in progress which we won't get around to until all provinces and major cities/settlements are connected to each other. It shouldn't take that long, actually, and it'll go faster with more Titan's Tools. But as for having roads leading from every settlement worth its name, that should take years, even with so much magic.

Even so, an average person should be no more than a couple of weeks from a major road, and from there as part of our major infrastructure projects (Messenger relays) there are inns, taverns and stables all across these. Meaning they will be able to get places far faster even if they aren't as connected as the rest of the realm. People will travel more, and low population areas of Essos will swell in immigrants as people move away from more condensed areas--this is going to happen faster and faster as our agricultural rituals expand and improve.
 
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Crake said:
I was thinking to start with a Mark of Justice and a Contingent spell to alert us of the first instance of spellcasting by or upon her.

There's really not much more we can do at that point besides continually send divinations her way and delegate someone to check in with her semi-regularly. I would also tell her about the lengths we have gone to in order to track someone down and tell her if undying vengeance sounds appealing right about now, better than her have tried and failed.
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Very much against this by the way.

This is literally what people where upset about it being done to Pol Ning: Stripped of her magical powers and send of to marry someone politically convenient.
That's really not an acceptable form of punishment.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Very much against this by the way.

This is literally what people where upset about it being done to Pol Ning: Stripped of her magical powers and send of to marry someone politically convenient.
That's really not an acceptable form of punishment.
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I'm not married to the idea. I kind of disfavor Mark of Justice in the general vein because it's rather inflammatory and not truly effective as a preventative measure. It's highly inconvenient to any single person without a support network or resources, but if you gain either of those two you are set.

Edit: And to preempt an extension discussion about politically motivated arranged marriages, I would like to strongly and emphatically clarify that I am concerned about making arrangements without consent to people who have done nothing wrong (from our point of view, which is innately subjective).

Because of the subjectivity of that statement, I am going to doubly clarify that my point of view is biased, but I feel it is perfectly acceptable to arrange a marriage for say Myrielle or Cerenna Lannister which neutralizes them as a threat as is politically advantageous to us, and would do the same to any number of our political enemies who benefit from the feudalistic system. It is an obsolescent system but parts of it will remain in tact for the foreseeable future and I have absolutely zero interest in not benefiting from the traditional bargaining tools or points of leverage found within its confines whatsoever.

If you are an enemy, you will fall on the short stick. If you aren't, you will will generally get a more sympathetic view barring mitigating circumstances.
 
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We'll have to wait for the next update to make excact decisions what to do with the younger daughter, but generally speaking I always prefer temporary punishments over permanent ones.
 
Artemis1992 said:
We'll have to wait for the next update to make excact decisions what to do with the younger daughter, but generally speaking I always prefer temporary punishments over permanent ones.
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I am not, in this case, against a temporary punishment, so long as it is an effective one. I am not invested enough in arguing for utilizing people as pawns or bargaining chips, but I wouldn't shed any tears or bat an eyelash if we chose to do so against those who have become a liability or nuisance.
 
Takesis said:
DP, Dany's still a mass-murderer on this chapter. I know she did that on the show, but that was a whole other reality...

[X] Crake
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Fixed, thanks.

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 18, 2020 at 4:50 AM, finished with 76 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Consider her request for a moment, as if genuinely surprised. In truth, you somewhat are.
    -[X] "I'll speak to Lady Vaela myself, and if she is amenable, transport her here to speak with you." Making it clear you're reluctant to force her into returning. "If nothing else, unless she was given cause to harden her heart against entreaties to take up her duties as heir, she should at least be willing to discuss the matter with you in person."
    -[X] Make eye contact with Teora, "Perhaps her sister would be willing to meet with her on your behalf? From what little I know of Lady Vaela, there isn't any rift between siblings to worry about."
    -[X] Take Teora to the House of Mirrors first, and explain to her, in exhaustive details, what it is used for, first from a mercantile perspective, and then from an intelligence gathering one.
    -[X] "Your reckless actions were doomed from the start, if Prince Doran can deduce the truth of your folly with far less resources than I possess. You are going to fix this."
    -[X] You aren't actually entirely certain how she'll react to you calling her on her ill-fated plot, but given your prior history with trying to strong-arm impulsive people into following your lead, you are just going to assume if you actually get to this point she will have an appropriately dramatic reveal that makes a bald threat pointless, at least until she actually plays her hand.
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Azel said:
Things like these are what Mark of Justice was invented for. If you want more, I'm sure the merry band of mad scientists in Gorgossos can figure something out that is more... permanent and thorough.
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The basic idea of 'Geas' comes to mind, not necessarily the way the actual spell works.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 18, 2020 at 4:50 AM, finished with 76 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Consider her request for a moment, as if genuinely surprised. In truth, you somewhat are.
    -[X] "I'll speak to Lady Vaela myself, and if she is amenable, transport her here to speak with you." Making it clear you're reluctant to force her into returning. "If nothing else, unless she was given cause to harden her heart against entreaties to take up her duties as heir, she should at least be willing to discuss the matter with you in person."
    -[X] Make eye contact with Teora, "Perhaps her sister would be willing to meet with her on your behalf? From what little I know of Lady Vaela, there isn't any rift between siblings to worry about."
    -[X] Take Teora to the House of Mirrors first, and explain to her, in exhaustive details, what it is used for, first from a mercantile perspective, and then from an intelligence gathering one.
    -[X] "Your reckless actions were doomed from the start, if Prince Doran can deduce the truth of your folly with far less resources than I possess. You are going to fix this."
    -[X] You aren't actually entirely certain how she'll react to you calling her on her ill-fated plot, but given your prior history with trying to strong-arm impulsive people into following your lead, you are just going to assume if you actually get to this point she will have an appropriately dramatic reveal that makes a bald threat pointless, at least until she actually plays her hand.
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Part MMMCCCXCIV: An Imperfect Understanding
  • Threadmarks
    • An Imperfect Understanding ​

    Twenty First Day of the Twelfth Month 293 AC

    You do not try to keep the surprise off your face, though you have to hide your annoyance. That was all this aggravation was about? Delicate as the situation might be young Vaela is your ward not your prisoner, it never even crossed your mind to refuse her mother a chance to meet her. "I'll speak to Lady Vaela myself, and if she is amenable, transport her here to speak with you." You pause a moment to make it clear you are reluctant to force the girl to return for obvious reasons.

    An unwilling heir is worse than no heir at all, though perhaps not as bad as a treacherous and foolish one, you think glancing at Teora. She needs to learn to maintain her composure as well as think ahead in her plans if she is going to end up anything besides the first highborn Westerosi noble to grace your prisons for misuse of enchantments.

    "If nothing else, unless she was given cause to harden her heart against entreaties to take up her duties as heir, she should at least be willing to discuss the matter with you in person," you add to Lady Nymela's obvious relief before turning to the youngest of the two Tolands fully. "Perhaps her sister would be willing to meet with her on your behalf? From what little I know of Lady Vaela, there isn't any rift between siblings to worry about," you keep your tone light, for the words themselves should be suggestive enough for one who knows the truth.

    "I... yes of course," Teora says after a moment. Before her mother can interrupt she adds. "Looking back I think I might have been too willing to let her go. I should have argued harder against her leaving."

    "As if you could convince anyone of anything, much less Vaela when she gets something into her head," her mother scoffs with unknowing irony. "Go and try not to forget yourself gawking at the magic."

    You take the lady's arm with deliberate property and reach out with the other to touch Ser Richard, and in a moment you are elsewhere, but not in the keep where Lady Vaela has apartments, the better to keep an eye on her. The House of Mirrors looms before you, the motto writ in true-script above the door gleaming in the later afternoon sun: Through knowledge all paths are made brighter.

    "Do you know what this place is?" you ask conversationally.

    "The house with the diviners. Why did you...?" Teora's voice shakes. "Why this, why did you bring me here? I know you know alright," she snatches her arm away, voice rising, more in panic than anger though it is enough for Ser Richard's gaze to darken.

    "Excellent, that spares me a good half hour of explaining what you should have already thought of before starting your doomed scheme," you reply coolly. "Rest assured that if Prince Doran could untangle it with far fewer resources than I possess there is no way it could have escaped me."

    "You have to..." Teora cuts herself off, unable or unwilling to continue, closing her eyes against the reality of her situation, but you can guess the rest.

    "You have to ask the right question, yes. Do you know what question Prince Doran's mages posed?" You do not wait for an answer, not that you think she is in any fit state to give one. "They asked what is the worst transgression a member of the Three Orders committed against Dornish nobility."

    "What do you care?" she bursts out. "I heard what you are doing in the east... here, changing everything, putting your clerks over things, gathering more and more power to the throne. Vaela's like mother, that's why she likes her most, but I..."

    "I am not in fact changing 'everything', because to do so would drown the realm in blood," you cut her off. "I am changing some things because they favor high and low alike. Whatever faults you may imagine your sister and mother have they do not justify your deeds. What remains to do now is to fix them."

    "Fix?" A broken laugh passes her lips. "How do I fix this? If mother does not send me to the Silent Sisters when she finds out Vaela will make my life hell, more than she already did that is. She isn't particularly clever, but she is determined you know."

    The words have the ring of truth and much as bitterness, and though they do not make you any less angry for the tangle you do see in a flash a comparison what had escaped you so far, in place of a trembling pale young woman, a dark haired boy eyes averted from his father's disapproval. Samwell Tarly had been far cleverer and without malice about using magic to attempt to escape his father's shadow.

    You do not owe Teora Toland anything, but you do owe it Prince Doran to spare him as many headaches as you can.

    How do you approach Vaela and Lady Toland?

    [] Write in

    OOC: And there we are, the reason Teora messed up is that magic was still new when she enacted her scheme and knowledge of high level divination not exactly common. Both she and her co-conspirator underestimated what it could do when applied systematically.
     
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    • BronzeTongue said:
    She knowingly sent her totally unprepared sister out into a life threatening environment. At best she didn't think about it, and at worst she was relying on it to avoid having her legitimacy challenged later. Given how meticulously she planned every part of this except how her sister would survive I'm inclined to think she was aware of the danger and sent her anyway.
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    She was sent to Sunspear first, she didn't right away go out into the world to explore, so it seem likely that her being prepared was a part of the plan, it was just that the plan was, for her to learn to be prepared in Sunspear.
    Crake said:
    Wrong, she was under compulsion.
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    Um no she wasn't.
    DragonParadox said:
    Arianne, however, had found something odd about the former Toland heir, calling her 'aimless and determined all at once'. After several weeks in her company she became convinced there must be some strange influence upon the girl. In that she was proven right. Though there were not present enchantments upon Valena when she arrived in Sunspear, foresight showed that small, weak compulsions had been layered on her for months, pushing her towards a life away from home. Further investigations showed that Wisdom Uron, the mage Doran himself had sent, had been responsible, having conspired with the younger Toland sister whom he had also taught magic in secret.
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    As said here, there was no present enchantments upon her, they used temporary compulsions to convince her, but didn't leave any of them in place.
     
    tarrangar said:
    She was sent to Sunspear first, she didn't right away go out into the world to explore, so it seem likely that her being prepared was a part of the plan, it was just that the plan was, for her to learn to be prepared in Sunspear.

    Um no she wasn't.

    As said here, there was no present enchantments upon her, they used temporary compulsions to convince her, but didn't leave any of them in place.
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    Morally speaking that is rather moot point, it was a clever way to twist someone's mind without it being immediately obvious to detect magic and using only low level spells, but in all practical terms Vaela was compelled with magic.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    "Fix?" A broken laugh passes her lips. "How do I fix this? If mother does not send me to the Silent Sisters when she finds out Valena will make my life hell, more than she already did that is. She isn't particularly clever, but she is determined you know."
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    Ok now I want to know more about this situation, because she just became much more sympathetic to me, if you treat your family like trash, don't be surprised if you find a knife in your back.

    Not going to full out pardon her, but depending on what grievances she have, I think just having her drafted for the Scholarium might be enough.
     
    Welp, who wants to invent family counselling?

    Let's be real here, this is, at it's very worst, one girl convincing her sister to run away under false pretenses and said girl having an adventure while doing so.

    Hell from what it sounds like the girl didn't even get what she really wanted in the first place considering her mom was about to shack her up with a dude she didn't want to deal with and with the added caveat that she and said dude would be obligated to pump out babies the second the vows were dropped.

    This sounds like the kind of problem that can be solved by getting everyone to sit down in the same room and actually talk like adults about their grievances and then trying to find a compromise.

    No muss, no fuss, no magic needed.
     
    Evaunit02mark1 said:
    Welp, who wants to invent family counselling?

    Let's be real here, this is, at it's very worst, one girl convincing her sister to run away under false pretenses and said girl having an adventure while doing so.

    Hell from what it sounds like the girl didn't even get what she really wanted in the first place considering her mom was about to shack her up with a dude she didn't want to deal with and with the added caveat that she and said dude would be obligated to pump out babies the second the vows were dropped.

    This sounds like the kind of problem that can be solved by getting everyone to sit down in the same room and actually talk like adults about their grievances and then trying to find a compromise.

    No muss, no fuss, no magic needed.
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    Keep in mind this is a feudal society, what Teora tried to do was subvert the succession, wars have been fought for less in the past. The fact that she did so using magic and with the complicity of one of Doran's mages is what makes things so worse as it could well impact the acceptance of magic in Dorne on a wide scale. That is what makes this, family drama and all Viserys' problem.
     
    Why are we protecting her. Just throw her in prison and just use this as proof of the fact that magic is held accountable to law. This is a golden oppurtunity to spin this in our favour. Like i couldn't deliberately manufacture a better PR oppurtunity. All we need to do is nail a mind controling bitch to the wall and have her face the consequences of her action.
     
    I'm glad to see this come up on-screen again. I liked it when we first heard about it (great background stuff!) and after meeting the characters in person I can say that I'm not disappointed. This is interesting!
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Keep in mind this is a feudal society, what Teora tried to do was subvert the succession, wars have been fought for less in the past. The fact that she did so using magic and with the complicity of one of Doran's mages is what makes things so worse as it could well impact the acceptance of magic in Dorne on a wide scale. That is what makes this, family drama and all Viserys' problem.
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    I see a high demand for Amulets of Protection from Evil upcoming.
    Acolyte said:
    Why are we protecting her. Just throw her in prison and just use this as proof of the fact that magic is held accountable to law. This is a golden oppurtunity to spin this in our favour. Like i couldn't deliberately manufacture a better PR oppurtunity. All we need to do is nail a mind controling bitch to the wall and have her face the consequences of her action.
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    Which law did she brake?
     
    Acolyte said:
    Why are we protecting her. Just throw her in prison and just use this as proof of the fact that magic is held accountable to law. This is a golden oppurtunity to spin this in our favour. Like i couldn't deliberately manufacture a better PR oppurtunity. All we need to do is nail a mind controling bitch to the wall and have her face the consequences of her action.
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    It still looks bad that she got away with it for years. It's not even the best way to get good PR for our mages : ideally we'd want a shocking crime that doesn't actively challenge the feudal order.

    MTB said:
    Which law did she brake?
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    If using mind-control on people isn't illegal yet, then our legal system needs reform right now!
    She used lots of low-level mind-affecting spells to influence someone's life, effectively stealing her heritage and exiling her from her home. That really shouldn't be legal.
     
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