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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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egoo said:
Thank you, @Azel.

I had, and have, little interest in the Gelugon either way.

But!
We are going to have a lot of Devils we'd want to try to flip once we finish our research action.
I'd really rather to deal with them all at once, Gelugon included.
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I assume this refers to summoning? Which devils are planned for summons?
 
Duesal said:
I assume this refers to summoning? Which devils are planned for summons?
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Here's Mammon's Devils currently in Larder:
[] 1 Ice devil (Mammon),
[] 1 Assasin Devil (Mammon),
[] 7 Legion Devils (Mammon),
[] 11 Lesser Host Devils (Mammon),
[] 3 Steel Devils (Mammon),

Here's what we are summoning this month:
[] 3 Lead Devils (Mammon),
[] 2 Harvester Devils (Mammon),
[] 13 Salikotals (Unaffiliated),
[] 9 Ink Devils (Unaffiliated).

it just seems to me, that doing everyone in one batch (for what it's worth anyway, since I doubt more than a half will agree) is less meander-y.
Especially since none of them are actually from the numbers of those faced on-screen, iirc.
 
Darklord. said:
what was the vow?
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It wasn't so much a vow as an unspecified favor which Garin owed to R'hllor. IIRC, it all goes back to our early adventures in Lys, well before our Braavosi exile, when we needed to seek shelter in a Temple of the Red Faith. The high priest there was a douche nozzle who wouldn't let us in when we were about to be attacked by Undead, but Garin offered the favor in exchange for our admittance.

EDIT: Or not!
 
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Goldfish said:
It wasn't so much a vow as an unspecified favor which Garin owed to R'hllor. IIRC, it all goes back to our early adventures in Lys, well before our Braavosi exile, when we needed to seek shelter in a Temple of the Red Faith. The high priest there was a douche nozzle who wouldn't let us in when we were about to be attacked by Undead, but Garin offered the favor in exchange for our admittance.
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Nah, it was to spare Wyla. His Redness agreed getting the vampires and ghouls burned, but balked at being asked for an exception.
 
[X] Azel

The banner spells in the buy list reminded me of something I found recently that I don't recall being used that might be helpful. Shield the Banner is sanctuary for banners that comes with +2 hardness and +10 hp. The will save to even touch the banner would make theft or direct attacks on our fancy banners much less practical, so long as the crafter is strong/buffer enough at least.
 
BronzeTongue said:
[X] Azel

The banner spells in the buy list reminded me of something I found recently that I don't recall being used that might be helpful. Shield the Banner is sanctuary for banners that comes with +2 hardness and +10 hp. The will save to even touch the banner would make theft or direct attacks on our fancy banners much less practical, so long as the crafter is strong/buffer enough at least.
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Neat spell. Gonna have to try to remember that one.
silvanknight said:
Would Metamagic gems be a good thing to commission?
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Huh, how have I never read about these? I would prefer the rods for most purposes, but these gems are a nice alternative and could provide a useful tool in our peoples' collective toolbox. I'm gonna make a note of them for our next shopping trip. I don't want to add anything else, because both Azel and I have matching plans right now, except for the handling of the Gelugon.
 
Goldfish said:
Neat spell. Gonna have to try to remember that one.

Huh, how have I never read about these? I would prefer the rods for most purposes, but these gems are a nice alternative and could provide a useful tool in our peoples' collective toolbox. I'm gonna make a note of them for our next shopping trip. I don't want to add anything else, because both Azel and I have matching plans right now, except for the handling of the Gelugon.
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Regarding the Gelugon, while obviously it should be handled carefully, I don't believe it's nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

Ambition is not a bad thing if properly channeled. And for the most part, Devils don't like being stuck in Hell, nor do they strive for oblivion. Our contracts are very clear in what the result of betrayal is, and our contingencies (getting the true name) would make it very easy to hunt down a potential traitor.

Like I've said before, at least give it an interview, and check via divination whether or not it will stick to the contract. This is something you agreed to in principle in the past, I'm not sure why it changed.
 
Added the other Devils since @egoo has a point, better to get this over with entirely in one swoop.

I have some ideas where to deploy all of them, but that changes a lot depending on the exact batch that actually defects. At the very least I want to get a command for the PoF together, bolstered by an undead force, that can then support other operations there. Some others like the Ink Devils would be good for domestic use and could be quite useful if they can mark people as if Viserys was their Archdevil. Something to investigate at the very least. Lastly, we can use the already proven loyal Erinyes to command a few dedicated teams.

Overall goal is to expand Devil use outside of immediate combat needs if possible in preparation for absorbing more and more outsiders as time goes on and our capacity to subsuming them increases. There's just a great lot in there that could do with a attitude and appearance face-lift, but would ultimately be very nice to have for the imperial outsider flock.
 
@Azel
I can generally agree with that, we have a use or two for most devils.
But I'm still wary of recruiting things like Falxugon or Phistophilus, Devils whose only goal for millenia was to appear to work for their current summoner while actually securing as many (or high-quality) souls as possible for Hell.
Even though our divination and Inquisitions make unnoticed success unlikely, it still seems like our growing bueaucrazy would be a good place for them to hide such workings from others, once they are in.
 
Artemis1992 said:
@Azel
I can generally agree with that, we have a use or two for most devils.
But I'm still wary of recruiting things like Falxugon or Phistophilus, Devils whose only goal for millenia was to appear to work for their current summoner while actually securing as many (or high-quality) souls as possible for Hell.
Even though our divination and Inquisitions make unnoticed success unlikely, it still seems like our growing bueaucrazy would be a good place for them to hide such workings from others, once they are in.
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I understand your worry, which is why I explicitly have Yss check them over. A Falxugon is definitely not powerful enough to hide such intentions from the literally divine vessel right in front of his nose.

The Falxugons in particular are people whom I would deploy in a manner where they don't have minions to minimize the risk. Not entirely sure where yet though. That depends a bit on the strength and mission goal of the Gelugon led PoF force. Might be worth sending one of them along to act as the Face of that group.
 
TBH with the amount of Outsiders, both Fallen Archons and Devils, typically acting as mercenaries across the Planes for various reasons, keeping their "pots" separate should ostensibly be old hat for them by now.

The thing that makes them think what Viserys is doing is insane isn't a well-written contract or some mutual self interest guiding some devils along specific routes, it's completely cutting Hell out of the racket. That has a certain appeal to Devils who have absolutely rotten luck, lots of enemies waiting to undercut them, and a lot of spite boiling beneath the surface towards their current superiors. Trading up for us is a good deal for them. It's a bad deal for any devil who's been dealing straight flushes or even most of the ones who have been carefully climbing up the ranks and keeping their head down enough not to become a priority for rivals, but up enough to be noticed for promotions.

Which means that Viserys should attract two kinds of Devils: 1) Those who have grown tired of infernal politics. 2) Those who are reckless about playing the odds. If we succeed, they win really big. Smaller pool of rivals to vie for position against, good job security. Very hazardous lifestyle though.
 
Crake said:
TBH with the amount of Outsiders, both Fallen Archons and Devils, typically acting as mercenaries across the Planes for various reasons, keeping their "pots" separate should ostensibly be old hat for them by now.

The thing that makes them think what Viserys is doing is insane isn't a well-written contract or some mutual self interest guiding some devils along specific routes, it's completely cutting Hell out of the racket. That has a certain appeal to Devils who have absolutely rotten luck, lots of enemies waiting to undercut them, and a lot of spite boiling beneath the surface towards their current superiors. Trading up for us is a good deal for them. It's a bad deal for any devil who's been dealing straight flushes or even most of the ones who have been carefully climbing up the ranks and keeping their head down enough not to become a priority for rivals, but up enough to be noticed for promotions.

Which means that Viserys should attract two kinds of Devils: 1) Those who have grown tired of infernal politics. 2) Those who are reckless about playing the odds. If we succeed, they win really big. Smaller pool of rivals to vie for position against, good job security. Very hazardous lifestyle though.
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Pretty much and this goes double for Falxugons actually. If they forswear Mammon and Yss confirms that they truthfully did so, they loose a major incentive to betray Viserys. Most of the trouble with them is that they sell out their temporary masters to Baator, but in this constellation, Viserys takes the place of Hell. This is a highly unusual dynamic and one you have to keep in mind when evaluating the whole thing. Viserys is no regular summoner. He is in the same position as an Archduke.

So... maybe they will start selling out co-workers and superiors to Viserys instead which, as long as they are selling them out by means of uncovering legitimate betrayal, corruption or similar shenanigans, I'm very much on board with. In that they wouldn't be any worse then most magisters, let alone high-value people like Zherys or Malarys, who would absolutely do the same.
 
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