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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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KnightofTempest said:
Here's a thought.

Orange's court is fucked up, perhaps too much so as to be worth the headache of dealing with.

Why not back Azure in conquering Orange, thus ensuring the next undisputed Emperor of Yi Ti is further in our debt?
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I don't really want to get involved in that mess right now, not when we've finally removed a major piece from the board and have a bit of breathing room (relatively speaking, of course).

I do prefer the Azure Emperor, however, and just because we don't support him directly doesn't mean we can't provide assistance in other ways. We've already provided him valuable intelligence, which we can continue to do in the future, if to a lesser degree.

Our trade fleet arrived in Yin this month, too, which will be a boon to his economy and gives us an excuse to establish a presence in the port city's foreign quarter. Being formally recognized by, and having established diplomatic ties with a powerful trading partner who won't necessarily be seen as an external threat due to distance and cultural differences, helps to solidfy the Azure Emperor's position. I think! Ancient Not!Asian politics confuse me.
 
KnightofTempest said:
No, but the two of us together?

Magic covereth a multitude of sins, and we can probably gate over a Legion and supplies to help.

Just cast Teleportation Circle, Permanency, then march the legion into the circle a squad at a time, supplies and all.

Bingo Bango, you can now project power. The best part is that after its all done, the circle can work as a trade route.
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1) Not that simple, for the below mentioned reasons.

2) Magic can help us bring over our own assets, but we need those assets to exert control over our own territory, which is due to expand exponentially soon.

3) Using Imperial war assets to exert control over even a SLIVER of Yi Ti would make Bu Gai lose considerable face. And moreover, it could not be trusted--he would be wise not to trust it! Why would we go so far to shore up his rule without considerable concessions being offered? The main problem there, besides a matter of honor, is that we don't even really know what we'd ask for in this situation. There are a number of advancements and knowledge that we could ask for, certainly, but we have to discuss it at length first.

4) It would be like getting involved in yet another front altogether, since many local powers and entities would oppose a team-up on that scale between Bu Gai and Viserys.
 
[X] You will sidestep responsibility, at least as far as Lady Xue is concerned, and continue dealing with matters relating to the Golden Company.
-[X] You will try to meet with Pol Ning at the conclusion of those matters and offer her a place in your court, where she would be honored and appreciated, not discarded the moment it becomes politically expedient.

Re-wording to be less petulant.
 
Viserys directly occupying part of Yi Ti would be tantamount to staking a claim on the throne. There is no other way anyone involved would or even could perceive it.

The whole Golden Company battle is already iffy enough to cause issues.
 
Azel said:
Viserys directly occupying part of Yi Ti would be tantamount to staking a claim on the throne. There is no other way anyone involved would or even could perceive it.

The whole Golden Company battle is already iffy enough to cause issues.
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If it comes down to it, we can at least make the claim that we were eliminating enemies of our realm. It would be technically true, too.

And if the issues are too much for that but of political theater, we can shrug and peace out to our side of the planet to handle more pressing issues.
 
Goldfish said:
If it comes down to it, we can at least make the claim that we were eliminating enemies of our realm. It would be technically true, too.

And if the issues are too much for that but of political theater, we can shrug and peace out to our side of the planet to handle more pressing issues.
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Which is pretty much what I would like to do. We have zero political interest in Yi Ti right now, so I'd like to avoid any entanglement like the plague. At most, we want a trading post here and that's about it. Who is sitting on the throne is entirely irrelevant.

And I'm probably not going to change my tune on that at least until we have taken Qarth.
 
"Look at me! I CAN ACT WITH IMPUNITY!" - Viserys Targaryen, Kind of an Asshole, But Not A Hundred Percent a Dick, probably.
 
Right are we 100% sure we can't just kill Xue? I mean 100% totally sure? Like what happens if we kill her? A war? I highly doubt they can hurt us.

More realistically can we at least do some kind of measured response to show we aren't going to just take an insult like this without some response? Like we have zero interest here so what do we lose by making a response to this? a trade post we don't need? Frankly killing the Orange Emperor's cause as a whole would probably gets us more via diplomatic points with the Azure court.
 
Crake said:
"Look at me! I CAN ACT WITH IMPUNITY!" - Viserys Targaryen, Kind of an Asshole, But Not A Hundred Percent a Dick, probably.
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It's kind of hard to pretend otherwise when you are having a diplomatic meeting in the knee deep ashes of the last people who offended you. And which are scheduled to be removed to your secret evil lair and be forged into loyal minions.
 
Azel said:
It's kind of hard to pretend otherwise when you are having a diplomatic meeting in the knee deep ashes of the last people who offended you. And which are scheduled to be removed to your secret evil lair and be forged into loyal minions.
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Viserys: "If you would look to your right, you can see my loyal Erinyes vassals. While it may seem that they are wallowing in the ashes of my incinerated enemies, they are in fact practicing a sacred rite of their sisterhood, the creation of short-lived 'Ash Angels'."

Viserys (30 seconds later): "And over here, the ashes of the Golden Company are being sifted for bits of magical paraphernalia which may have survived the conflagration."

Viserys (2 minutes later): "It's hard to miss the crater where my Companions and I slew the mighty avatar of the Birch Queen."
 
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masterofmadness said:
Right are we 100% sure we can't just kill Xue? I mean 100% totally sure? Like what happens if we kill her? A war? I highly doubt they can hurt us.

More realistically can we at least do some kind of measured response to show we aren't going to just take an insult like this without some response? Like we have zero interest here so what do we lose by making a response to this? a trade post we don't need? Frankly killing the Orange Emperor's cause as a whole would probably gets us more via diplomatic points with the Azure court.
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We could, but it wouldn't be worth the trouble, IMO.

Destabilizing Yi-Ti too much right now could cause the kind of chaos which invites Fiendish interference to a greater degree than is already present. There is also the Bloodstone Emperor and the Shadowlands to consider. Yi-Ti serves as a limiting factor on his expansion in at least one direction.
 
Just woke up, and saw this.

Wow, just wow.

I... don't know what to say. I thought that they'd be more mature and pofessional about this matter. A simple metaphorical pat on the back would be nice

But, haha, I just forgot how selfish and repugnant mankind could be. The Hag-Whore did NOT try to appease us for the trouble we have to trudge through; did NOT try to lessen the mistakes on the Court and instead try to undermine the Man-Child's sister for politics in this situation; did NOT act with rationality AND tries to shove Intrigues down our throat for her personal gain.

...

I am repulsed.

Know that any plan to burn them and bring them down with a cruel, iron fist as they begged for mercy will be met with my utmost acceptance.

[X] Crake
 
Goldfish said:
We could, but it wouldn't be worth the trouble, IMO.

Destabilizing Yi-Ti too much right now could cause the kind of chaos which invites Fiendish interference to a greater degree than is already present. There is also the Bloodstone Emperor and the Shadowlands to consider. Yi-Ti serves as a limiting factor on his expansion in at least one direction.
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But mom! I want to kill her! You never let us have any fun!
 
Can't we just ignore this bitch and just marxh to the assholes palace and place an ultimatum. What the fuck is he going to do.
 
... I don't think she's done much to be worth the hate. Sure the political games are irritating, but we knew that she was going to play them from the beginning.

Moreover, if we wanted to avoid this we should have dodged the question about our involvement. The only reason she's capable of proving anything is because we admitted it. If we hadn't then she couldn't dismiss Pol An Ning without calling Viserys a liar.

There isn't a lot of profit for us in being rude here, especially now that we've more or less established we're leaving. The risk is still there though; making enemies because we feel like being a dick and can't see an immediate way they can trouble us is a good way to end up as a cartoon villain.
 
I get the desire behind wanting to smack these people around. We just finished bitchslapping Tiamat and dealing with her goons and now we have this little upstart doing stupid shit...yeah I get the sentiment.
 
Thinking about it, we just screwed Pol An Ning pretty badly; is she even going to want to work with us? Even if Xue knew what was up, the antagonism between them would provide a basis for claims of bias if she said anything.

The issue of "making" the Kami lie is esoteric enough to prove that it'd only influence her fellow mages, but they're already split by faction and her people stand to lose out in some ways if they flipped on her.

All of this adds up to a complex political shadow conflict, but not an impossible one if she was very good and a little lucky. We just ruined that for her, and she likely won't know until it's all over unless we tell her first.

That makes all of our actions a lot more maliciously manipulative from her perspective; especially if we try to recruit her. "Sorry I talked you into trusting me, then burned all your bridges. Looks like you need a new job, and fortunately for you I'm hiring" isn't a good pitch, and she has some decent reasons to parse anything we offer her that way.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Thinking about it, we just screwed Pol An Ning pretty badly; is she even going to want to work with us? Even if Xue knew what was up, the antagonism between them would provide a basis for claims of bias if she said anything.

The issue of "making" the Kami lie is esoteric enough to prove that it'd only influence her fellow mages, but they're already split by faction and her people stand to lose out in some ways if they flipped on her.

All of this adds up to a complex political shadow conflict, but not an impossible one if she was very good and a little lucky. We just ruined that for her, and she likely won't know until it's all over unless we tell her first.

That makes all of our actions a lot more maliciously manipulative from her perspective; especially if we try to recruit her. "Sorry I talked you into trusting me, then burned all your bridges. Looks like you need a new job, and fortunately for you I'm hiring" isn't a good pitch, and she has some decent reasons to parse anything we offer her that way.
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I'm okay with being a manipulative chessmaster, but I will point out, as far as Pol An Ning knows, we did not walk up to her and spew lies. A shifty person who was so "loosely affiliated with certain parties in the west", a transparent guise if there ever was one, offered her the world, and she was naive enough to believe him, yet what he offered wasn't a stab in the back. It was hot goods and a way to lie to raise her standing. We were fully transparent as Corlys when we spun a cover story for her. She was fully willing to lie to regain her position at court.

She lost it, and now her new patron is offering to yank her ass out of the fire... keyword, offering. I am actually somewhat expecting her to be resistant to the idea on a number of grounds, but her situation looks quite hopeless without our backing.

Edit: Though, I think I know where you're coming from on reflection. To wit, I did not support @Artemis1992 wanting to reveal our involvement. I was happy to deny it all.

I'm mostly offering to help her because I genuinely feel bad for her. Not trying to play her or get her to sell her soul to the devil. That doesn't mean I'm really sorry for using her, though. No one forced her to do anything.
 
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Ugh, the more I think about what @BronzeTongue posted, the more I realize we really did screw her over. Even if I really rather we hadn't, that doesn't really change that we kind of just torpedo'd her chances at fighting a rather grim political battle to maintain her position.

But really, other than washing our hands of her, which seems pretty ice cold, there's no other way I can think of acting IC now other than an ice cold manipulative bastard who played her like a goddamn fiddle. How that translates in actuality, Viserys feeling guilt for impulsively over-estimating ability to avoid consequences from having been a pawn, or us heartlessly breaking the news to her and acting as the sole lifeline available, I don't know.

We could also sort of just leave her in the wind and wash our hands of her. She isn't really our problem. And we've done colder and more ruthless things to other people.

They just usually deserve it.
 
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