Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
So for what it's worth I think renewal fits what we want for team sustain pretty well but doesn't result in as strong an effect for Resist, since intrinsically it makes our arts better at recovering from damage than mitigating it in the first place. Against an opponent like Cai with dispels that don't just disable arts but also make recasting harder/impossible, that's less than ideal. Plus, a lot of our effects really benefit from not getting interrupted even for a little; just not healthy to present opponent that window of escape.
I think this is a really good point that people who want Renewal or Cycles should consider when voting. We're not really setting ourselves up for a good Resist art by choosing a theme that will inevitably ebb and flow. It should be something that is permanent for as long as the art is active, something that is inevitable.
EDIT: For the group sustain part, its fine though.
 
Resist Art is good.

I think a question we should ask is whether or not we think this art is likely to provide us with an insight or not?
If it is, we should consider our Domain.
If it isn't, we should try to connect with Zhengui.

When the night comes, we huddle around the campfire and share stories and songs and dance with one another to keep the howling shadows away from our hearts.

Something that assists in the swift rekindling of arts that are dispelled would be great. Renewal of arts that are quenched, tossing tinder to spark them again.

[X][Role] Resist

[X] Fire
[X] Renewal
[X] Wood

All in on Zhengui Resist style. Let's learn more about Zhengui <3

I see other options of Dance and Endings. Those are fine. I like Fire though, our best friend Lanlan has lots of fire and I miss her <3
Also: on dispel effects that make recasts more difficult it sounds like you might need to Dispel that debuff before you can get over it?
If we want a Hard Resist art maybe we should go down the Wood, Growth route instead of renewal. I know we all like Zhengui but if this is Personal Resist we might need to orient ourselves more like. Wood Growth [third thing]
 
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Ling Qi just needs to sideboard her entire musical mist schtick. Fully restock her arts into a Zhengui style cosplay set and cultivate it all in secret. They'll never see it coming at the team tournament!
 
I think this is a really good point that people who want Renewal or Cycles should consider when voting. We're not really setting ourselves up for a good Resist art by choosing a theme that will inevitably ebb and flow. It should be something that is permanent for as long as the art is active, something that is inevitable.
EDIT: For the group sustain part, its fine though.
I fundamentally disagree. As @Arkeus points out, Renewal is intrinsically opposed to shut-down dispels, not uniquely vulnerable to them. Thinking tactically, considering the number of field effects we like to try to keep going at once, something which allows for automatic renewal in the case of dispel, especially multi-target dispels, does a lot to keep our momentum going in the face of opposition. Like, there's a lot of scenarios to consider here. What about when we're facing multiple dispelling techniques from coordinating opponents? Narratively, that should effectively chip away at monolithic "inevitable" setups; there is no insurmountable technique. We've arguably been unrealistically lucky the way only single dispels ever get thrown at us.

It's also not very accurate to trump up permanent/inevitable type keywords as more potent, because everything gets sorted by tier and potency in the end. Simply declaring yourself thematically superior to the enemy doesn't actually work. Every Renewal resist art is going to have generic +resist effects too, it's not like they won't even attempt to stop dispels in the first place. And heck, for big effects we've got our talisman.

Personal preference either way, but these arguments for the ineffectiveness of Renewal resist aren't persuasive.
 
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Huh... I would have said renewal is actually really damn good for those specific scenarios? If we are thinking about resists types that are good against "you can't use that tech again", I am not sure what would be better than renewal.
Against someone like CRX where the underlying assumption is that no matter what our arts are getting disrupted anyway, something like "Renewal"+"art comes back stronger next time" is indeed a good solution. However, for most foes we should be aiming for our arts not getting dispelled in the first place, and renewal as a core theme for resist effects opens a narrative window to weaker dispels to disrupt effects like LW or Elegy for a turn, which to me represents a significant reduction in effectiveness for the "control" part of our build.
 
Huh... I would have said renewal is actually really damn good for those specific scenarios? If we are thinking about resists types that are good against "you can't use that tech again", I am not sure what would be better than renewal.
Also, from a meta-angle we might want to be unstoppable, but yrsillar doesn't want to give us that. Trying is likely to just end with frustration. If Renewal allows for more of an interaction and back and forth then that's actually a point in its favor, since it's more likely that yrs will actually let it be useful.

[X][Role] Resist
[X][Role] Group Sustain

[X] Renewal
[X] Growth
[X] Wood
 
Alternatively, something like [Consumption, Inevitability] to actively devour and get empowered by attempts to disrupt our arts, possibly directing the energy into extra regen or buffs to the supported arts.

I really like this idea and was going to make a post suggesting something similar before I saw your post. I really like the combination of Darkness and Wood, which I think would be a decent combo of elements to support this.

This combination works really well in helping us explore our domain conflict. Darkness represents Ling Qi's ambition while Wood, at least as I understand it, relates more to her connection to her family and friends. Our conflict involves our SCS, FVM, and Advanced insights. It brings into focus the question of how we connect our ambitions to our desire for family. How can we carry them along with us when they have their own needs and characteristics? Our FVM insight said that a hard and lonely path would be worthwhile. This Darkness/Wood art could potentially provide us with another perspective.

When using this art, we would not be satisfied with just simply resisting. We would be using resists to empower ourselves in some way. This fits very well with "Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end".

There are a number of downsides to this idea. I don't think it's really about renewal, which seems to be one of the priorities of most posters. Wood and growth from consumption are its only connections to Zhengui. If we want it to incorporate family, we should not be the only ones who benefit from absorption. We might need a keyword specifically related to family or group buffs.

In my opinion, the most concerning aspect is that if we have an art focusing on consumption, the actual resistance capabilities of the art may have to be weaker than other options. This doesn't necessarily have to be the case though. For example, the benefits we obtain from consumption might include being able to more easily absorb later techniques (conceptually, learning from the technique that you consumed?). We might also possibly be able to expend the benefits from consumption in a much stronger resist than normal.

[X][Role] Personal Resist
[X][Role] Resist Support
[X][Role] Group Sustain

[X] Consumption
[X] Growth
[X] Darkness

Renewal seems to have gotten increasingly popular as I've been typing this. Having our field effects dispelled and renewed doesn't really match what I was going for with this, but I think switching out Growth for Renewal might still work, although I'm not entirely sure.
 
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something which allows for automatic renewal in the case of dispel, especially multi-target dispels,
Well that's a different story. An automatic activation of the technique whenever its dispelled would actually be really cool..and more importantly wouldn't provide the window for enemy attacks that Black Noise was referring to.
Against someone like CRX where the underlying assumption is that no matter what our arts are getting disrupted anyway, something like "Renewal"+"art comes back stronger next time" is indeed a good solution. However, for most foes we should be aiming for our arts not getting dispelled in the first place, and renewal as a core theme for resist effects opens a narrative window to weaker dispels to disrupt effects like LW or Elegy for a turn, which to me represents a significant reduction in effectiveness for the "control" part of our build.
Well I guess its an argument of whether we want a Resist art that a) is automatically renewed when dispelled without LQ having to activate it or b) never gets dispelled in the first place (ideally it won't).
 
[JK] [Role] Oh My Who Could Have Expected That Strange Pillar Would Show Up Again
[JK] Salt
[JK] Looking Back
[JK] Predictable Consequences


I just wanted something that really encapsulates the feeling of voting for an Archive dive, think it came out well. :V
 
[X][Role] Personal Resist

[X] Hearth
[X] Consumption
[X] Fire
 
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Couple other things on a Renewal-centric resist art:

Wouldn't be surprised if there was a tech duration+ effect in there. Fits the themes.

Zhengui's advanced Fortitude skill is Rejuvenation. His derived armor is relying on a skill themed around constant recovery from injuries. Having a resist art based on Renewal in similar terms is not only friendly to demonstrating bonds to Zhengui, but because of him we have direct evidence that it doesn't really mean a trade-off in raw performance anyway. "Enemy dispel doesn't work because your tech is constantly regrowing as it's attacked" can no-sell enemy efforts just as well as anything else, if that's the philosophy of the overall art.
 
Couple other things on a Renewal-centric resist art:

Wouldn't be surprised if there was a tech duration+ effect in there. Fits the themes.

Zhengui's advanced Fortitude skill is Rejuvenation. His derived armor is relying on a skill themed around constant recovery from injuries. Having a resist art based on Renewal in similar terms is not only friendly to demonstrating bonds to Zhengui, but because of him we have direct evidence that it doesn't really mean a trade-off in raw performance anyway. "Enemy dispel doesn't work because your tech is constantly regrowing as it's attacked" can no-sell enemy efforts just as well as anything else, if that's the philosophy of the overall art.
Which is basically what I was thinking when I proposed a Resist/Regen art.
 
While I want an art that is thematic with LQ's other arts, I also want elements that overlap with ZG so I guess I'll vote for both so we get multiple options...

[X][Role] Personal Resist

[X] Cold
[X] Resonance
[X] Wood

EDIT: Since it looks like Cycles will be losing to Renewal anyway, I'll be replacing it with Consumption...I think it'd be really awesome if our Resist art was also Qi-Regen. It's not necessary but still.
 
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So having had a bit of time to think, I'll be going with this unlikely-to-win-together combo for theme keywords (edited into my earlier vote):

[] Cold
[] Consumption
[] Renewal

Ultimately something renewal-themed isn't too bad, as it fits LQ quite well and does function at its best when we're the underdog. Hopefully together with consumption it will allow a solution that feeds off of weaker dispel attempts and can weather stronger ones.

Other than that, the effect I'm hoping for is something SEA-like; an all-consuming nexus of cold that feeds and sustains both our arts and our allies.
 
For maximum Zhengui theme: Growth, Renewal and Wood. Resist would be the Growth part, and while Renewal can be Sustain. However, instead of Sustain I would rather have defensive dispels to purge poisons and other harmful effects. Yes, Sixiang can do it too, but there is nothing that is stopping us from working together in cases where we were hit, right? Or maybe us being able to dispel the stuff on us means they can focus on helping our other spirits. Basically, 'sixiang can do dispels' isnt really a reason for us to not have them too, just like having zhengui isnt a reason for not having an armor art.

[X][Role] Resist
[X][Role] Defensive Dispel

[X] Growth
[X] Renewal
[X] Wood
 
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Is it possible to get [] Resist/Dispel as one Art? Enduring and growing stronger from it seems like they'd work perfectly together.
[X] Resist/Dispel
[X] Growth
[X] Renewal

[X] Moon
 
Gonna make another bid for the Tides keyword:
  • It ties into cycles and being diminished and then coming back strong
  • It has a Moon thematic tie, so it has an obvious hook in with our existing suite
  • It would probably be a Water art, and so plays nicely with our Trench Swimmer's Pill
 
[X][Role] Resist
[X][Role] Group Sustain

[X] Renewal
[X] Growth
[X] Wood

That Zhengui Collaboration Arc is just too attractive ngl
 
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