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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TalonofAnathrax said:
Daenerys - Path of the Hoard-taker

"Madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land."
Old words for an old family, twisted by older Gods who claim ancestry and dominion over its bloodline. Yet Daenerys wields her own coin, and through it flows her sorcery. Born once in a storm, once through sacrifice and once through defiance, Daenerys Targaryen dreams a mad dream: to rule her own fate, to cast out her Divine ancestor from the world she once ruled and to defeat the wrath and greed of this eons-old Goddess of Dragons. It is a narrow road to walk, with no end in sight. But Daenerys can bring mad hopes into the waking world, and hers is the will to break a Goddess beneath her heel on her road to happiness.

Tiamat stands in her way, thrice-defied and thrice-wrathful.

The Dreamer's laughter echoes through the dreams of men, as a Dragon's helpless roars follow her footsteps.

No matter how this tale may end, all will know that the merest of mortals stole divine fire and wrought joy from it.


Tier​
Path Features​

1st​​
Inspired Spell, Defiant Dream​

2nd​​
Faith's Reach​

3rd​​
To Dream a mad Dream​

4th​​
Competent Caster​

5th​​
Timeless Dream​

6th​​
Bend the Knee​

7th​​
Prayer-Breaker​

8th​​
Defiant​

9th​​
Hoard Thief​

10th​​
Transcendent Dreamer​
Defiant Dream: +2 to all saves, spell DCs and skill checks against Tiamat and her followers. These bonuses double at Mythic Tier 6. Can expend one use of Mythic power as a free action to gain a number of ideas equal to your Tier. This ability replaces the Mythic Feat and Path Ability gained at Tier 1.
Faith's Reach: Whenever you cast a divine spell with a range of touch, you can instead cast the spell with a range of 30 feet. If the spell normally requires a melee touch attack, it instead requires a ranged touch attack.
To Dream a mad Dream: At Mythic Tier 3, Dream Turning now functions against Dragons, and a mythic power use can be expended as a free action to gain a single extra use of Dream Turning (not useable to fuel divine metamagic). As an immediate action, expend a use of Dream Turning or a Mythic power use to stop Dragon breath from entering within 10ft of you (an opposed Tier roll may be required against Mythic Dragon Breath).
Competent Caster: You automatically succeed at Concentration checks to cast Arcane spells. This ability doesn't apply to spells of the highest spell level you can cast.
Timeless Dream: Whenever you cast a spell with a duration of 1 minute or longer upon one willing target, you can change that spell's duration to 24 hours. If the spell has other duration conditions, those still apply (for example, the duration of stoneskin changes to 24 hours or until discharged). A creature can't be subject to more than one spell affected by this ability at a time; if another is cast upon the creature, the first one ends. This path ability also replaces the Mythic Feat obtained at this Tier.
Bend the Knee: Dream Turning now Commands any Dragons it would normally Rebuke.
Prayer-Breaker: If you successfully counterspell a divine spell that is on your spell list and of a level you can cast, you can absorb the countered spell's power and use it for your own purposes. On your next turn, you can cast that spell as a spell-like ability using your divine spellcaster level as the caster level.
Defiant: Immunity to fear and intimidating presence. Gains bonuses corresponding to the penalties they would have inflicted if they were used by an enemy.
Hoard-Thief: You can steal [Tier] Mythic Power uses or Divine spells as a touch attack, with Mythic creatures allowed an opposed Tier check to resist. Stealing divine spells functions like the spellthief ability.
Transcendent Dreamer: The Dreamlands are fundamentally linked to your soul, and the boundary between dream and truth is hard to find when you are present. You can use the planar traits and characteristics of the Dreamlands for one round after expending a mythic power use as a free action. Upon death, unless you are hunted down within the dreamlands and killed again, you will slowly reappear within the dreams of others until you step out into the real world one day. If you were soul-killed, you will never be able to exit the Dreamlands and you can no longer cast spells (indeed, you are arguably just an extremely realistic copy of the real Daenerys, idealised in the dreams of others and unable to truly grow and change).

EDIT: I will only add this to the informational post once we have some sort of consensus (with notes for any enduring disagreements). C&C welcome!
DOUBLE EDIT: You may note that access to Mythic Spell Lore is delayed. This si very deliberate, to keep our PCs a little different mechanically for now. Delaying Mythic Feats seems absolutely worth it for now though.
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I really don't like Defiant Dream. It's almost pure fluff which will very rarely ever see use, and at the expense of a Path ability and a Mythic Feat. There also won't be many times where it will ever be advantageous to exchange Mythic Power for more Ideas. One Mythic Power can duplicate an 8th level spell which would require 24 Ideas to Dreamcast. No thanks on this one. What about a boosted version of Eldritch Breach instead? It could have the normal effects against everything except for Tiamat-aligned beings, giving three rolls instead of two? Or a bonus on the rolls equal to half Dany's Mythic tier?

To Dream a Mad Dream is pretty situational, but quite powerful in its own niche. I could live with this one.

Defiant is kinda weird and not really that impressive for an 8th Tier ability.
 
Duesal said:
Definitely Fire and Law. But I've always wanted the Dragon domain.
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By mechanics, we would have to take Scalykind at 6th Tier using another Divine Source grab, with one of our two sub-domains being Dragon.

Fire seems kinda boring, though thematic. Guess it'll do. If we grab Divine Source again at 9th, I would definitely like Protection domain. It has some of the best Domain spells, among them Mindblank.
 
Duesal said:
This is overly focused on Tiamat and dragons. Yes, they are what earned Dany her mythic ranks in the first place, but I don't think the entire thing should revolve around fighting them. This ties into the reason a lot of people ended up not wanting Dark Sister to go to Dany when they found out the enchantment would just be a fancy dragonbane -- overspecialization against enemies is not a good thing.



Bend the Knee seems cool, but the rest, especially Defiant Dream, seems like it will be used sparingly if ever.
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Defiant Dream gives her extra Ideas, which is strong considering her PrC. No?
The minor skill and save bonuses are just fluff, really.

But maybe we could replace it. @Goldfish, would you be fine with taking my path if we replaced Defiant Dream with Eldritch Breach, and gave her Mythic Extend Spell or Mythic Iron Will?
Mythic Iron Will is actually quite good, and she already has the prerequisite feat.

Oh, and I am taking suggestions for names to replace "Bend the Knee".

@Goldfish, I agree with your criticism of Defiant. It was originally the level one ability, but then kept being moved up.
What if we took it as a level 1 Mythic Feat, if @DragonParadox ok'ed it?
 
I agree with @Goldfish in regards to grabbing Law and Knowledge BTW, both of which are more thematically interesting than Fire. I mean, fire is good and all, but Viserys loves Knowledge because it is a shared passion he holds with Lya, and it brings them closer together. Also appropriate due to his primary divine beneficiaries all being scholars. And Law is a defining and key characteristic, the heart of his desire to shape the world into something fair and just instead of arbitrary and injust.

Goldfish said:
[] Richard's Mythic Path (Champion)
-[] Mythic Attribute Bonus: +2 Strength
-[] Path Ability:
--[] Burst Through (Ex): When you charge, you can move through allies and opponents almost as if they were not there to obstruct your path. You can move through squares containing allies freely, but you must succeed at an overrun combat maneuver check for each opponent that obstructs your path to the target of your charge. If the result of the check exceeds the opponent's CMD, you may move through the opponent's square and continue toward the target without provoking an attack of opportunity from that opponent. If you fail any of these combat maneuver checks, your movement ends in the square before that opponent, but you may resolve the charge attack against the foe that stopped you.
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When is Richard going to get his anti-aging cream? :cry:
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
Defiant Dream gives her extra Ideas, which is strong considering her PrC. No?
The minor skill and save bonuses are just fluff, really.

But maybe we could replace it. @Goldfish, would you be fine with taking my path if we replaced Defiant Dream with Eldritch Breach, and gave her Mythic Extend Spell or Mythic Iron Will?
Mythic Iron Will is actually quite good, and she already has the prerequisite feat.

Oh, and I am taking suggestions for names to replace "Bend the Knee".

@Goldfish, I agree with your criticism of Defiant. It was originally the level one ability, but then kept being moved up.
What if we took it as a level 1 Mythic Feat, if @DragonParadox ok'ed it?
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Yeah, let's do that. Eldritch Breach, but maybe with a tweak? Call it Lucid Breach (maybe?) and have it be mechanically identical to Eldritch Breach, but gain a bonus to caster level checks equal to 1/2 Mythic Tier against Tiamat-aligned forces?

I can get behind Mythic Iron Will, too.

In place of Bend the Knee, what about calling it Shatter Pride instead?

I think Defiant should just be scrapped for now. We can always come back later and address it. It's many tiers away, so there isn't any hurry for now.
 
Crake said:
I agree with @Goldfish in regards to grabbing Law and Knowledge BTW, both of which are more thematically interesting than Fire. I mean, fire is good and all, but Viserys loves Knowledge because it is a shared passion he holds with Lya, and it brings them closer together. Also appropriate due to his primary divine beneficiaries all being scholars. And Law is a defining and key characteristic, the heart of his desire to shape the world into something fair and just instead of arbitrary and injust.

When is Richard going to get his anti-aging cream? :cry:
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The Domains we select are also more for our worshipers than for us. Law and Knowledge aren't just thematic, but they're very fitting for the kinds of people we'll have praying to us for spells, chief among them Imperial bureaucrats, Inquisition personnel, etc.

Richard is years away from Longevity being a concern, and that's ignoring all of the various methods to mitigate or reverse the effects of aging. Longevity would be pure fluff right now. Good fluff for sure, but with no meaningful substance.
 
Goldfish said:
The Domains we select are also more for our worshipers than for us. Law and Knowledge aren't just thematic, but they're very fitting for the kinds of people we'll have praying to us for spells, chief among them Imperial bureaucrats, Inquisition personnel, etc.

Richard is years away from Longevity being a concern, and that's ignoring all of the various methods to mitigate or reverse the effects of aging. Longevity would be pure fluff right now. Good fluff for sure, but with no meaningful substance.
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Are you really going to wait until his last Tier to grab it, then?
 
Goldfish said:
The Domains we select are also more for our worshipers than for us. Law and Knowledge aren't just thematic, but they're very fitting for the kinds of people we'll have praying to us for spells, chief among them Imperial bureaucrats, Inquisition personnel, etc.

Richard is years away from Longevity being a concern, and that's ignoring all of the various methods to mitigate or reverse the effects of aging. Longevity would be pure fluff right now. Good fluff for sure, but with no meaningful substance.
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Crake said:
Are you really going to wait until his last Tier to grab it, then?
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Regarding Longevity for Ser Richard, if we're not getting in this mythic tier, I want it for his next one.
 
Crake said:
Are you really going to wait until his last Tier to grab it, then?
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I hadn't intended to.

Really, though, if you want him to take it now and the rest of ya'll don't mind, I don't have a problem with it. Burst Through would be nice, but it's not that much of an upgrade.
 
Goldfish said:
I hadn't intended to.

Really, though, if you want him to take it now and the rest of ya'll don't mind, I don't have a problem with it. Burst Through would be nice, but it's not that much of an upgrade.
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Can we grab it now? If not now, then next tier for sure. Though the thing about Break Through is, at third Tier a bunch of new shiny abilities opens up, which makes me nervous about Longevity being voted on, and the problem only gets worse after 6th Tier. See what I'm sayin'?
 
Crake said:
Can we grab it now? If not now, then next tier for sure. Though the thing about Break Through is, at third Tier a bunch of new shiny abilities opens up, which makes me nervous about Longevity being voted on, and the problem only gets worse after 6th Tier. See what I'm sayin'?
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Done.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Feb 13, 2020 at 8:51 PM, finished with 112 posts and 2 votes.
  • [X] Viserys' Mythic Path (Path of the Ascendant)
    -[X] New Mythic Spell: Time Stop
    -[X] Mythic Feat: Extra Path Ability
    -[X] Path Ability:
    --[X] Component Freedom (Ex): When you cast an arcane spell, you can ignore one component of the spell: focus, material, somatic, or verbal. You can ignore a focus or material component only if its total value is equal to or less than 100 gp × your tier. You can select this ability more than once; each time you take this ability, the number of components you may ignore for each spell you cast increases by 1.
    --[X] Nature of a Realm (Su/Ex): At 3rd Tier, you gain the ability to grant spells to divine spellcasters who choose to follow your creed, as the Divine Source Mythic Ability (you choose two domains as normal), bestowing upon them an echo of the flame that you have forged into a beacon to the world, standing forever against the dark. For so long as even a single echo endures, so too will you, and thus the realm itself. As long as any follower of yours capable of casting spells of a level equal to (Mythic Tier/3) lives, you are treated as if you had the Longevity Mythic Ability.
    ---[X] Longevity (Su): Upon taking this ability, you can no longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all the benefits to your mental ability scores.
    ---[X] Divine Source (Su): You can grant divine spells to those who follow your cause, allowing them to select you as their deity for the purposes of determining their spells and domains. Select two domains upon taking this ability. These domains must be alignment domains matching your alignment if possible, unless your alignment is neutral. You grant access to these domains as if you were a deity. Creatures that gain spells from you don't receive any spells per day of levels higher than your tier; they lose those spell slots. In addition, you can cast spells from domains you grant as long as their level is equal to or less than your tier. Each day as a spell-like ability, you can cast one spell of each level equal to or less than your tier (selecting from those available to you from your divine source domains).
    ---[X] Domains Selected:
    ----[X] Law Domain
    ----[X] Knowledge Domain
    [X] Lya's Mythic Path (Path of the Sage)
    -[X] Mythic Attribute Bonus: +2 Intelligence
    -[X] Path Ability:
    --[X] Competent Caster (Ex): You automatically succeed at concentration checks to cast arcane spells. This ability doesn't apply to spells of the highest spell level you can cast.
    [X] Richard's Mythic Path (Champion)
    -[X] Mythic Attribute Bonus: +2 Strength
    -[X] Path Ability:
    --[X] Longevity (Su): Upon taking this ability, you can no longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all the benefits to your mental ability scores.
    [X] Dany's Mythic Path: Path of the Hoard-Breaker
    -[X] Mythic Attribute Bonus: +2 Wisdom
    -[X] Mythic Feat: Iron Will (Mythic)
    -[X] Divine Surge:
    --[X] Inspired Spell (Su): You can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one divine spell, treating your caster level as 2 levels higher. This spell must be on your divine spell list (or your domain spell list) and must be of a spell level that you can cast using that divine spellcasting class. If you are a spontaneous spellcaster, you don't need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. Using this ability does not expend a prepared spell or available spell slot. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total spell slot level must be a slot level you can normally cast.
    -[X] Path Abilities:
    --[X] Faith's Reach (Su): Whenever you cast a divine spell with a range of touch, you can instead cast the spell with a range of 30 feet. If the spell normally requires a melee touch attack, it instead requires a ranged touch attack.
    --[X] Lucid Breach (Su): You are adept at breaching magical defenses and resistance to your magic. When attempting a caster level check to dispel an effect, overcome spell resistance, or otherwise determine whether or not your magic affects a target (such as with knock or neutralize poison), roll twice and take the higher result. As a special effect due to the manner in which you first acquired Mythic rank, you gain a bonus to caster level checks equal to half your Mythic Tier against the Dragon Goddess Tiamat and any beings who serve or whorshp her.
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Oops, just realized I made a Freudian Typo, @TalonofAnathrax. I linked Dany's Mythic Path in my plan to your Mythic info post (I know it's not been added yet, but it needs to point somewhere! /OCD).

Anyway, I mistakenly named it the Path of the Hoard-Breaker instead of Hoard-Taker. I was gonna fix it, but I kinda like Hoard-Breaker more than Hoard-Taker. What do you think of using that name instead?
 
How are we going to deal with the worship by the way? It could seriously fuck up some of our politics if Viserys comes off as the kind of narcissist who declares himself a god.

It will effect our relationships with every free mortal polity, and make enemies of most religious organizations. Hell, given Yss' opinions on people who pretend to be gods without having an afterlife on hand to back it up we might have to deal with some displeasure on the home front.

It'll certainly make the Genies uncomfortable at the very least, given their discomfort with the divine and how similar it looks the the SoB's hobby.

I'm not saying we should avoid a clearly useful and flavorful mythic ability, but we need to reframe the way we advertise it to preemptively smooth some of this stuff over.

I think I've mentioned this before, but I think we should at least look into defining our prayer rituals to be literally filling out requisition forms for spell slots, then burning the paperwork to "submit" it.

Something like that could contain all the core components of faith (the acknowledgement of authority, deep thought/meditation on the target of devotion & their associated concepts, etc) without looking like it.

Whatever we decide to do, we should be proactive in how we address this issue instead of letting it sit out there and potentially become a problem.

[X] Goldfish
 
BronzeTongue said:
How are we going to deal with the worship by the way? It could seriously fuck up some of our politics if Viserys comes off as the kind of narcissist who declares himself a god.

It will effect our relationships with every free mortal polity, and make enemies of most religious organizations. Hell, given Yss' opinions on people who pretend to be gods without having an afterlife on hand to back it up we might have to deal with some displeasure on the home front.

It'll certainly make the Genies uncomfortable at the very least, given their discomfort with the divine and how similar it looks the the SoB's hobby.

I'm not saying we should avoid a clearly useful and flavorful mythic ability, but we need to reframe the way we advertise it to preemptively smooth some of this stuff over.

I think I've mentioned this before, but I think we should at least look into defining our prayer rituals to be literally filling out requisition forms for spell slots, then burning the paperwork to "submit" it.

Something like that could contain all the core components of faith (the acknowledgement of authority, deep thought/meditation on the target of devotion & their associated concepts, etc) without looking like it.

Whatever we decide to do, we should be proactive in how we address this issue instead of letting it sit out there and potentially become a problem.

[X] Goldfish
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Well, having the power of a God but none of the metaphysical chains would be a good way to get away with it. And so long as the worship is being funneled into something that is paying it back, Yss won't mind. It's a loophole, but he doesn't hate loopholes, he hates waste.

And addressing the rest, again, being as powerful as a God turns this into a "if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, then you better keep your head down and not cause any problems" situation. Anyone that cares about something like this will have long since made peace with the fact that we see ourselves clearly above Gods and Men both. It comes with commiserate responsibilities, like granting spells to people who will use them to the benefit of the Imperium.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
How are we going to deal with the worship by the way? It could seriously fuck up some of our politics if Viserys comes off as the kind of narcissist who declares himself a god.

It will effect our relationships with every free mortal polity, and make enemies of most religious organizations. Hell, given Yss' opinions on people who pretend to be gods without having an afterlife on hand to back it up we might have to deal with some displeasure on the home front.

It'll certainly make the Genies uncomfortable at the very least, given their discomfort with the divine and how similar it looks the the SoB's hobby.

I'm not saying we should avoid a clearly useful and flavorful mythic ability, but we need to reframe the way we advertise it to preemptively smooth some of this stuff over.

I think I've mentioned this before, but I think we should at least look into defining our prayer rituals to be literally filling out requisition forms for spell slots, then burning the paperwork to "submit" it.

Something like that could contain all the core components of faith (the acknowledgement of authority, deep thought/meditation on the target of devotion & their associated concepts, etc) without looking like it.

Whatever we decide to do, we should be proactive in how we address this issue instead of letting it sit out there and potentially become a problem.

[X] Goldfish
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The way it works isn't quite worship, we've just been using that word as shorthand. For our version, we're granting spells to Imperial citizens who use Divine magic more like Concept Clerics, but in this case the "Concept" is the Imperium and the ideals it represents as espoused by its king.
 
BronzeTongue said:
How are we going to deal with the worship by the way? It could seriously fuck up some of our politics if Viserys comes off as the kind of narcissist who declares himself a god.

It will effect our relationships with every free mortal polity, and make enemies of most religious organizations. Hell, given Yss' opinions on people who pretend to be gods without having an afterlife on hand to back it up we might have to deal with some displeasure on the home front.

It'll certainly make the Genies uncomfortable at the very least, given their discomfort with the divine and how similar it looks the the SoB's hobby.

I'm not saying we should avoid a clearly useful and flavorful mythic ability, but we need to reframe the way we advertise it to preemptively smooth some of this stuff over.

I think I've mentioned this before, but I think we should at least look into defining our prayer rituals to be literally filling out requisition forms for spell slots, then burning the paperwork to "submit" it.

Something like that could contain all the core components of faith (the acknowledgement of authority, deep thought/meditation on the target of devotion & their associated concepts, etc) without looking like it.

Whatever we decide to do, we should be proactive in how we address this issue instead of letting it sit out there and potentially become a problem.

[X] Goldfish
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I think this is a bit more paranoid than it really deserves.

Yss wouldn't have a problem with it because we won't be making a claim to godhood. We'd be entering a bargain with our clerics and granting them spells, and later we'd be setting up an Imperial Afterlife.

The genies might not be comfortable with divinity, but that doesn't mean they're not willing to work with gods through us. And they shouldn't have a problem just because we get clerics. That doesn't erase what we've accomplished with them, and it certainly doesn't make us comparable to the Grand Sultan.
 
Crake said:
Well, having the power of a God but none of the metaphysical chains would be a good way to get away with it. And so long as the worship is being funneled into something that is paying it back, Yss won't mind. It's a loophole, but doesn't hate loopholes, he hates waste.
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I thought his specific issue was that faith and worship have a key role in what is one of the most important transactions a mortal makes in life. Taking them without providing an afterlife (or assistance finding one) as a true god can is effectively the highest form of theft one can commit - especially in the modern cosmos.

It has been a while though, so I might be misremembering why he was so pissed at that one cult.
Edit: dropped a word.
 
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