- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]
I'd still expect this revenue stream to exceed what we're "losing" on Zhengui's ash, the main difference is the ratio on profit will be more favourable for Bao Qian if we go for the 2 deals instead of the 1; that doesn't mean we'd be earning less
Yukiko. Hanyi isn't mature enough yet. Still a child.At the same time, "authentic yukionna songs" are the kind of thing that can have a certain novelty and value.
So I work in finance. The issue from Bao Qian's perspective isnt whether or not Hanyi's songs are profitable or not. Its about how Profitable. And given anti-spirit racism, and Hanyi not being as good as Ling Qi, this means that this project is probably going to have less of an upside, while requiring you to keep your inventory for longer. This means you sell your songs at a somewhat reduced price, after a longer period of time. This is lower return on investment than something that takes a shorter amount of time to sell, at a higher price.
Hanyi's songs are quite likely to be profitable. Eventually Bao Qian will find an interested Collector who will take em. Discounting below profit point (heck discounting period) is unlikely to happen given the description of the market. It doesnt make much sense. However Bao Qian is likely to have other projects which return more profit on a faster time basis. There probably exist lower tier Jade carvers and or merchants who would (market wise) be a 'better' match for us and be willing to do this without a favor, but finding them is going to take time.
And while it is the case in the update that Hanyi Income leads to Lower Zhengui bargaining power, this is probably more due to tha fact its hard to play hardball when you are asking someone for a favor.
And I will note further that Zhengui probably would sympathise with Hanyi here. He is doing this in large part because of his pride. He wants to feel like he is contributing, and not feel like a weak baby who cant do anything. Likely Hanyi is doing this for similarish reasons. She wants to feel strong and wants be powerful. She wants to be heard. And this is expressed in a somewhat more selfish way due to her dark/cold nature "Earn for myself, instead of rely on family" vs "Earn for Family". But it arises due to similar impulses.
Because he'd be entering into a new business venture with Ling Qi while handling most of the risk and distribution work mostly as a personal favor to her?If Hanyi selling her songs is going to actually be profitable, why do we need to accept a lower price for Zhengui ash and owe Bao Qian a favour to get him to do this?
That's fair. I'm just smushing it all into an abstract family income because I'm lazy.Mmmm I dont really want to quibble too much here, because on the whole you are absolutely right, but the money Hanyi earns is going to her. Likely she might for instance spend it on things like pretty talismans which increase her stength and are thus useful to us, but it is still her income. Thus this likely does in fact cut into our earnings. I dont think this is really that bad though.
Naturally theres also the Zombie Land Saga market to consider as wellThat's fair. I'm just smushing it all into an abstract family income because I'm lazy.
Also because I non-tangibly highly, highly value Hanyi going around engaging in commerce independently. Cause it's weird. Bizarre corpse-child spirits running around shopping is good civilization.
That's fair. I'm just smushing it all into an abstract family income because I'm lazy.
Also because I non-tangibly highly, highly value Hanyi going around engaging in commerce independently. Cause it's weird. Bizarre corpse-child spirits running around shopping is good civilization.
that makes little sense. If the songs sell poorly or even don't sell at all that should simply be reflected on the money Hanyi gets paid. periodSo I work in finance. The issue from Bao Qian's perspective isnt whether or not Hanyi's songs are profitable or not. Its about how Profitable. And given anti-spirit racism, and Hanyi not being as good as Ling Qi, this means that this project is probably going to have less of an upside, while requiring you to keep your inventory for longer. This means you sell your songs at a somewhat reduced price, after a longer period of time. This is lower return on investment than something that takes a shorter amount of time to sell, at a higher price.
Hanyi's songs are quite likely to be profitable. Eventually Bao Qian will find an interested Collector who will take em. Discounting below profit point (heck discounting period) is unlikely to happen given the description of the market. It doesnt make much sense. However Bao Qian is likely to have other projects which return more profit on a faster time basis. There probably exist lower tier Jade carvers and or merchants who would (market wise) be a 'better' match for us and be willing to do this without a favor, but finding them is going to take time.
And while it is the case in the update that Hanyi Income leads to Lower Zhengui bargaining power, this is probably more due to tha fact its hard to play hardball when you are asking someone for a favor.
And I will note further that Zhengui probably would sympathise with Hanyi here. He is doing this in large part because of his pride. He wants to feel like he is contributing, and not feel like a weak baby who cant do anything. Likely Hanyi is doing this for similarish reasons. She wants to feel strong and wants be powerful. She wants to be heard. And this is expressed in a somewhat more selfish way due to her dark/cold nature "Earn for myself, instead of rely on family" vs "Earn for Family". But it arises due to similar impulses.
Again all this should simply be reflected on Hanyi's "wages". If BQ has to split his "Li Qing discount" in two (or three?) ways then that should be reflected on the profit rate of each project, not on us owning his "favors".Let's drill into the reason why the cutting a deal for Hanyi's recordings cuts into asking power in the Zhengui negotiations. Bao Qian values a trading relationship with Ling Qi independent of the specific offers at hand. For this he's willing to trim his personal profit margin, as seen with the discount he gave with the recording vessel for Xiulan's going away present. Ling Qi has been a reluctant and unenthusiastic prospect so far. By approaching Bao Qian with the Hanyi venture, she's both splitting the "get Ling Qi on board" incentive between two projects and signalling that it's less necessary in total. This isn't quite the loss it seems, because it was something that he'd only be offering in deals short-term anyway, and we arguably have more standing in the business relationship if we approach it on even footing rather than a foot-dragger who needs to be bribed into it.
Of course it's also true Hanyi's recordings are likely less profitable than Ling Qi's or Zhengui's ash. A really big reason for this is marketing. Ling Qi is a nobody-cum-vassal to the Cai, and a second to the heir specifically, which is going to expand interest -demand- beyond strictly traditional 3rd realm Music buyers. Zhengui is an elementally unique xuanwu whose ashes are going to attract interest for not only commercial purposes but also, and probably especially early on, research initiatives. By comparison, Hanyi has significantly less cache. Anti-spirit bias also probably plays a role. Ultimately, I doubt her recordings are anything like unprofitable, but it will take more work to find buyers. I'd still expect this revenue stream to exceed what we're "losing" on Zhengui's ash, the main difference is the ratio on profit will be more favourable for Bao Qian if we go for the 2 deals instead of the 1; that doesn't mean we'd be earning less.
As for the favor thing, I'm not sure people are reading it quite right. It's ambiguous, but I didn't read "Owe favor to Bao Qian" to mean "owe a favor" but rather "owe favor". Owe him a nonspecific positive inclination. Which could and probably would manifest in minor favor trading, but still not a formal IOU. Arguably, we even profit in terms of obligation here. By leaning into the trading relationship like this, we're giving Bao Qian respect, even as we are obligated to respect him for how we'll be benefiting from his expertise. We currently don't have many levers to pull with regards to Bao Qian besides our own intransigence, which isn't really the style I'd like to go for and is a pretty brittle thing considering our lacking clan roots; ceding that advantage in exchange for a more mutual form of influence doesn't seem like a bad trade to me. We can always fall back on being the most stubborn person this side of the 4th realm anyway, if we need to.
Finally, Music recordings aren't a risk to the musician. It's just something they feel uncomfortable with. Like, I'm sure they could be used as a conduit for crazy esoteric stuff, but you're looking at an upper Cyan+ cultivator doing that in all likelihood. If they want to mess with us or our spirits, we're messed with anyway.
[X] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]
I actually think the profits of this will be minor enough that Bao Qian will not think it worth the hassle of the production and distribution of the songs for whatever cut he might get, so he might just give all the profits to Hanyi, work to cost, and just recoup the losses of time/effort from Zhengui's deal + the favor.aren't we business associates? isn't he getting his cut of the profits in relation to the amount of effort he puts in the venture?
Yeah but what people are saying is that the amount of time and effort he'll have to put in to sell Hanyi's songs will likely be a lot more than the money he'll get out of it. b/c of the bias against spirits and Hanyi's songs won't be worth as much as ours or ZG's ash. Which is why Bao Qian likely never proposed a deal involving Hanyi's songs in the first place.[] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]
I tend to this option. Seems the equivalent of your kid's first summer part-time job. though i don't understand us owing a favor to Bao Qian. aren't we business associates? isn't he getting his cut of the profits in relation to the amount of effort he puts in the venture?
Seems the equivalent of your kid's first summer part-time job. though i don't understand us owing a favor to Bao Qian. aren't we business associates?
Ya know who you sound like to me? ZEQING[X] Reassure Hanyi that you'll find another way for her to help. [Better negotiating position in Zhengui arrangement. Avoids further entanglements with Bao Qian. Sad Hanyi.]
Even though it's an option listed by the QM I do not believe that selling songs to nobles, of whom most would look at Zeqing with distaste, would be something that Hanyi would willingly do. The only way I would agree to this is if we kept track of where they are sold and stole them back if Hanyi changed her mind.
I actually think the profits of this will be minor enough that Bao Qian will not think it worth the hassle of the production and distribution of the songs for whatever cut he might get, so he might just give all the profits to Hanyi, work to cost, and just recoup the losses of time/effort from Zhengui's deal + the favor.
In which case the project simply isn't (commercially) viable and the option should be "[Yeah but what people are saying is that the amount of time and effort he'll have to put in to sell Hanyi's songs will likely be a lot more than the money he'll get out of it.