Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Kai Merah said:

I'd rather give Hanyi her own allowance rather than pretend to her that her songs are actually profitable. Or again, if the issue is that Hanyi wants to contribute, rather than Hanyi wants some spending money, then I'd rather that she actually contribute rather than us just pretending she's contributing while we pay Bao Qian off to go along with our spirit's delusions.

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.....
Why would you imagine that's going to be the outcome? Like, not only does everything we know about Bao Qian say he wouldn't be interested in that - and it may even be against his Way - but LQ would also be opposed to that. Remember what our AM insight is.

[X] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]

Yrs usually never uses trap options. The chance that an options with the effect 'income for hanyi' produces no income for hanyi is minimal.

Erebeal said:

.....
Why would you imagine that's going to be the outcome? Like, not only does everything we know about Bao Qian say he wouldn't be interested in that - and it may even be against his Way - but LQ would also be opposed to that. Remember what our AM insight is.

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If Hanyi selling her songs is going to actually be profitable, why do we need to accept a lower price for Zhengui ash and owe Bao Qian a favour to get him to do this?

Bao Qian entanglements are long lasting. Sad Hanyi is fleeting. Also, I don't really like the guy.

[X] Reassure Hanyi that you'll find another way for her to help. [Better negotiating position in Zhengui arrangement. Avoids further entanglements with Bao Qian. Sad Hanyi.]

Kai Merah said:

If Hanyi selling her songs is going to actually be profitable, why do we need to accept a lower price for Zhengui ash and owe Bao Qian a favour to get him to do this?

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........because anti-spirit racism means he needs to work harder at promoting her. It's a second job he'll need to work at instead of a quick and easy "print CDs and open a hotline to order them from it"

[X] Reassure Hanyi that you'll find another way for her to help. [Better negotiating position in Zhengui arrangement. Avoids further entanglements with Bao Qian. Sad Hanyi.]

1986ctcel said:

........because anti-spirit racism means he needs to work harder at promoting her.

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Meaning it's not actually profitable to sell spirit songs because of the Empire racism. According to a savvy business person, the risk is not worth the reward, which is why we need to sweeten the pot. Maybe it will get profitable in the future, after some extensive promotion. Will we get to renegotiate our price for Zhengui ashes then?

Either way, this is not Hanyi contributing to household funds, or earning her own income, this is us basically paying Bao Qian to generate income for Hanyi.

Kai Merah said:

Meaning it's not actually profitable to sell spirit songs because of the Empire racism. According to a savvy business person, the risk is not worth the reward, which is why we need to sweeten the pot. Maybe it will get profitable in the future, after some extensive promotion. Will we get to renegotiate our price for Zhengui ashes then?

Either way, this is not Hanyi contributing to household funds, or earning her own income, this is us basically paying Bao Qian to generate income for Hanyi.

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Don't be a greedy pennypincher.

We don't need to freaking minmax our income especially when the other option actually helps one of our loved ones.

Kai Merah said:

If Hanyi selling her songs is going to actually be profitable, why do we need to accept a lower price for Zhengui ash and owe Bao Qian a favour to get him to do this?

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Hanyi songs are probably less profitable than Zhengui ash, and Bao Qian has limited time. If he's finding customers for Hanyi he isn't finding customers for Zhengui, and he's earning less money himself and has less profits to pass on. Obviously, he'd prefer not to take suboptimal earning strategies - so we have to owe him a favor to take the pay cut.

1986ctcel said:

Don't be a greedy pennypincher.

We don't need to freaking minmax our income especially when the other option actually helps one of our loved ones.

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It's not about pinching pennies, and I'll thank you not to ascribe my motivations. The point is, Hanyi wants to do this because she wants to earn her own income. She's not earning her own income if we have to pay Bao Qian to give her an income. I'd rather just give her her own allowance out of our pocket or find some other way for her to contribute then. Hunting beast cores maybe? Either way, something that actually brings her a profit rather than just pretending to bring her a profit while actually taking it out of Zhengui's contribution.

Kian said:

Yrs usually never uses trap options. The chance that an options with the effect 'income for hanyi' produces no income for hanyi is minimal.

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He does roll for stuff that are risky tho.

[X] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]
Mostly because as I understand it...
Bao Qian: I want to sell to you Ling Qi.
Ling Qi: Okay, show me what you've got.
In this situation, Bao Qian is entirely dependant on Ling Qi's favor. If she isn't interested in his wares, or decided she doesn't like his face he's straight-up out of luck.
However...
Bao Qian: I want to sell to you Ling Qi.
Ling Qi: Ah, about that, Hanyi wanted to record some songs and see how well they sold...
Bao Qian: Excellent, is the lady here for us to begin...Let's say three days from now?
This situation is more of a meeting between peers, since both have something they know the other wants.
And last I checked, not really opening up is WHY the Nobles got antsy with Ling Qi, too much the impenetrable face without a clear sign what she wanted or anything to go off of, it's potential that no-one knows how to trigger for good or for ill, which is scary since you don't know if say, she's internally decided to have you murdered or something. Bao's deal might help open things up and ease their worries, by giving them some indication of what Ling Qi might be interested in and what she's not a fan of, so they can keep off her list of people that need a good kick to the butt.

Kai Merah said:

It's not about pinching pennies, and I'll thank you not to ascribe my motivations. The point is, Hanyi wants to do this because she wants to earn her own income. She's not earning her own income if we have to pay Bao Qian to give her an income. I'd rather just give her her own allowance out of our pocket or find some other way for her to contribute then. Hunting beast cores maybe? Either way, something that actually brings her a profit rather than just pretending to bring her a profit while actually taking it out of Zhengui's contribution.

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So I work in finance. The issue from Bao Qian's perspective isnt whether or not Hanyi's songs are profitable or not. Its about how Profitable. And given anti-spirit racism, and Hanyi not being as good as Ling Qi, this means that this project is probably going to have less of an upside, while requiring you to keep your inventory for longer. This means you sell your songs at a somewhat reduced price, after a longer period of time. This is lower return on investment than something that takes a shorter amount of time to sell, at a higher price.

Hanyi's songs are quite likely to be profitable. Eventually Bao Qian will find an interested Collector who will take em. Discounting below profit point (heck discounting period) is unlikely to happen given the description of the market. It doesnt make much sense. However Bao Qian is likely to have other projects which return more profit on a faster time basis. There probably exist lower tier Jade carvers and or merchants who would (market wise) be a 'better' match for us and be willing to do this without a favor, but finding them is going to take time.

And while it is the case in the update that Hanyi Income leads to Lower Zhengui bargaining power, this is probably more due to tha fact its hard to play hardball when you are asking someone for a favor.

And I will note further that Zhengui probably would sympathise with Hanyi here. He is doing this in large part because of his pride. He wants to feel like he is contributing, and not feel like a weak baby who cant do anything. Likely Hanyi is doing this for similarish reasons. She wants to feel strong and wants be powerful. She wants to be heard. And this is expressed in a somewhat more selfish way due to her dark/cold nature "Earn for myself, instead of rely on family" vs "Earn for Family". But it arises due to similar impulses.

HeiTian said:

I really do not want to refuse Hanyi here. But what bugs me is this: Why do we get penalised for bringing MORE business to the deal? Is Hanyi's singing so bad that Bao Qian will have a loss from producing and selling the records?

One explanation I see is that he would spend time on a venture that is not as profitable than others, but still. Reduction on the price for Zhengui's ash and a favour is kinda steep.

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Kai Merah said:

If Hanyi selling her songs is going to actually be profitable, why do we need to accept a lower price for Zhengui ash and owe Bao Qian a favour to get him to do this?

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Every single hour of a cultivator's life is an hour they could profitably spend cultivating. If you want to do business with a cultivator you can't just give them an opportunity that's profitable, it has to be more profitable than sitting in a cave thinking really hard about moonbeams, and that's the bare minimum.

Additionally, even if we're getting less on the Zhengui deal "we" are also getting a whole other income source through the money given to Hanyi. Sure, we don't get to decide how that's spent, but that's not Bao Qian's problem.

[X] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]

[x] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]

Inferno Vulpix said:

"Owe Bao Qian a favour" reads to me like "Give yrsillar a plot hook for the next Bao Qian arc"

And I like Bao Qian, so I'm perfectly okay with that.

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Plot hook! I don't think Bao Qian is going to mess with us anyway, so it's fine. It makes Hanyi happier and reduces her dependence on us, and all it costs us is making a bit less profit than we could otherwise have, which sounds fair enough to me.

Ugh, I can't decide.

[X] Agree to talk to Bao Qian [Gives Hanyi income. Owe favor to Bao Qian. Reduces asking power in Zhengui negotiations]

Sad Hanyi isn't an option.