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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.

[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
 
@Exterminatus @MonkeyTypewriter @Forgothrax @kelgar04 @veekie @Chimeraguard @KhazintheDark @Alanek @Rhodes @BrightFuture64 @newgman @Andy0915 @Nate700 @bdun140 @Ptolemy @Chronic @Sturmi @CthuluWasRight @Secondskink @LonelyWolf999 @EBR @Keani @Pittauro

Would you consider voting for this write-in? It's basically the Free State Buffalo option, but superior in how it looks from a PR and diplomacy POV, as instead of forcing a regime change, it offers the people of Buffalo a shot at self-determination.

[ ] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[ ] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
Rivenscryr said:
Would you consider voting for this write-in? It's basically the Free State Buffalo option, but superior in how it looks from a PR and diplomacy POV, as instead of forcing a regime change, it offers the people of Buffalo a shot at self-determination.

[ ] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[ ] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sure thing.
 
Rivenscryr said:
@Exterminatus @MonkeyTypewriter @Forgothrax @kelgar04 @veekie @Chimeraguard @KhazintheDark @Alanek @Rhodes @BrightFuture64 @newgman @Andy0915 @Nate700 @bdun140 @Ptolemy @Chronic @Sturmi @CthuluWasRight @Secondskink @LonelyWolf999 @EBR @Keani @Pittauro

Would you consider voting for this write-in? It's basically the Free State Buffalo option, but superior in how it looks from a PR and diplomacy POV, as instead of forcing a regime change, it offers the people of Buffalo a shot at self-determination.

[ ] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[ ] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Just edited it now.
 
Rivenscryr said:
@Exterminatus @MonkeyTypewriter @Forgothrax @kelgar04 @veekie @Chimeraguard @KhazintheDark @Alanek @Rhodes @BrightFuture64 @newgman @Andy0915 @Nate700 @bdun140 @Ptolemy @Chronic @Sturmi @CthuluWasRight @Secondskink @LonelyWolf999 @EBR @Keani @Pittauro

Would you consider voting for this write-in? It's basically the Free State Buffalo option, but superior in how it looks from a PR and diplomacy POV, as instead of forcing a regime change, it offers the people of Buffalo a shot at self-determination.

[ ] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[ ] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Already did.
 
A new tally for a new age!
Adhoc vote count started by Thebigpieman on Feb 3, 2020 at 11:09 PM, finished with 252 posts and 99 votes.
  • [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell wants to avoid your main strength and strike where you are weak? Two can play at that game. Advance a couple of divisions as tripwires against an assault from Rochester and disperse the rest into upstate New York. Tear up the industrial infrastructure Blackwell needs to fight these wars, and he will be forced to respond, allowing you to draw him out to battle on your own terms. The risk is that, when he responds, he managed to find a favorable engagement and bleed you enough that the victory you're seeking is denied.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
    [X] This isn't worth it. Call for peace with the Loyalists and accept that they will be able to use this travesty as a victory for leverage in negotiations. Victoria will present a peace plan. It will be significantly better for them than what you offered. You get to choose to accept or reject it. Negotiations will keep you locked up long enough that snow will be on the ground and practical campaigning will be done with.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements that you're planning to recognize Buffalo and surrounds -- including the Niagara Isthmus -- as an independent and free city, and are organizing elections to that effect. Blackwell absolutely could not ignore that, and would be politically required to launch an attack immediately, which would get him slaughtered. The downside is that you'd need to get the population out, because anybody remaining behind would have a death sentence on their heads. Something to demand in the peace treaty after you crush Blackwell's assault, in exchange for returning the physical location to him. Also...well, this looks fairly callous, and being used as bait for a trap won't really make the people of Buffalo grateful, much less being relocated from their homes under threat of death afterwards. And if you don't get peace, somehow, you're in the nasty position of having to evacuate a city under siege using your logistics...or leaving it.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell has overplayed his hand; by calling a muster at Rochester, he's given you a concrete target. If you move out to the city with your motorized forces, you should be able cut the forces there off from supply and communications, and force a decisive battle with your superior forces. The risk is that they get enough warning to simply, leaving you very overextended and vulnerable to attacks on your own supply lines.
    [X] Blackwell wants to avoid your main strength and strike where you are weak? Two can play at that game. Advance a couple of divisions as tripwires against an assault from Rochester and disperse the rest into upstate New York. Tear up the industrial infrastructure Blackwell needs to fight these wars, and he will be forced to respond, allowing you to draw him out to battle on your own terms. The risk is that, when he responds, he managed to find a favorable engagement and bleed you enough that the victory you're seeking is denied.
    [X] This isn't worth it. Call for peace with the Loyalists and accept that they will be able to use this travesty as a victory for leverage in negotiations.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue.
    -[X] Blackwell wants to avoid your main strength and strike where you are weak? Two can play at that game. Advance a couple of divisions as tripwires against an assault from Rochester and disperse the rest into upstate New York. Tear up the industrial infrastructure Blackwell needs to fight these wars, and he will be forced to respond, allowing you to draw him out to battle on your own terms. The risk is that, when he responds, he managed to find a favorable engagement and bleed you enough that the victory you're seeking is denied.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
    -[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer,
    -[X] This isn't worth it. Call for peace with the Loyalists and accept that they will be able to use this travesty as a victory for leverage in negotiations. Victoria will present a peace plan. It will be significantly better for them than what you offered. You get to choose to accept or reject it. Negotiations will keep you locked up long enough that snow will be on the ground and practical campaigning will be done with.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
    -[X] Blackwell has overplayed his hand; by calling a muster at Rochester, he's given you a concrete target. If you move out to the city with your motorized forces, you should be able cut the forces there off from supply and communications, and force a decisive battle with your superior forces. The risk is that they get enough warning to simply, leaving you very overextended and vulnerable to attacks on your own supply lines.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell has overplayed his hand; by calling a muster at Rochester, he's given you a concrete target. If you move out to the city with your motorized forces, you should be able cut it off and force a decisive battle with your superior forces.
Click to expand...
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.

DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE :V
 
Rivenscryr said:
@Exterminatus @MonkeyTypewriter @Forgothrax @kelgar04 @veekie @Chimeraguard @KhazintheDark @Alanek @Rhodes @BrightFuture64 @newgman @Andy0915 @Nate700 @bdun140 @Ptolemy @Chronic @Sturmi @CthuluWasRight @Secondskink @LonelyWolf999 @EBR @Keani @Pittauro

Would you consider voting for this write-in? It's basically the Free State Buffalo option, but superior in how it looks from a PR and diplomacy POV, as instead of forcing a regime change, it offers the people of Buffalo a shot at self-determination.

[ ] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[ ] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My one issue here is what it means for the city. We know we can't hold Buffalo, and if the city was gutted before it'll be small potatoes compared to what the Vicks do to anyone left in the city if it looks like they so much as considered a referendum. As for what this would do to the homefront... We're already anticipating significant problems from absorbing Toledo and Detroit, and Buffalo would only stretch our military and public services thinner. Obviously, we know this is a ploy to lure Blackwell, but we can't very well go on the radio and explain that to the folks at home, not unless we want him to know all about our plans. So we'll go from racing against public sentiment which is slowly turning against this venture to catching flak from all sides at home. Just about everyone is increasingly cautious about this venture. Something as big as this referendum would do incalculable damage to our government's popular support.
 
CthuluWasRight said:
My one issue here is what it means for the city. We know we can't hold Buffalo, and if the city was gutted before it'll be small potatoes compared to what the Vicks do to anyone left in the city if it looks like they so much as considered a referendum. As for what this would do to the homefront... We're already anticipating significant problems from absorbing Toledo and Detroit, and Buffalo would only stretch our military and public services thinner. Obviously, we know this is a ploy to lure Blackwell, but we can't very well go on the radio and explain that to the folks at home, not unless we want him to know all about our plans. So we'll go from racing against public sentiment which is slowly turning against this venture to catching flak from all sides at home. Just about everyone is increasingly cautious about this venture. Something as big as this referendum would do incalculable damage to our government's popular support.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
All of those disadvantages apply equally to outright declaring a free state of buffalo without a plebiscite.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
Rivenscryr said:
@Exterminatus @MonkeyTypewriter @Forgothrax @kelgar04 @veekie @Chimeraguard @KhazintheDark @Alanek @Rhodes @BrightFuture64 @newgman @Andy0915 @Nate700 @bdun140 @Ptolemy @Chronic @Sturmi @CthuluWasRight @Secondskink @LonelyWolf999 @EBR @Keani @Pittauro

Would you consider voting for this write-in? It's basically the Free State Buffalo option, but superior in how it looks from a PR and diplomacy POV, as instead of forcing a regime change, it offers the people of Buffalo a shot at self-determination.

[ ] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[ ] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Was about to :p

[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
CthuluWasRight said:
My one issue here is what it means for the city. We know we can't hold Buffalo, and if the city was gutted before it'll be small potatoes compared to what the Vicks do to anyone left in the city if it looks like they so much as considered a referendum. As for what this would do to the homefront... We're already anticipating significant problems from absorbing Toledo and Detroit, and Buffalo would only stretch our military and public services thinner. Obviously, we know this is a ploy to lure Blackwell, but we can't very well go on the radio and explain that to the folks at home, not unless we want him to know all about our plans. So we'll go from racing against public sentiment which is slowly turning against this venture to catching flak from all sides at home. Just about everyone is increasingly cautious about this venture. Something as big as this referendum would do incalculable damage to our government's popular support.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In terms of what happens to those left in the city, we actually have Word of QM for that from Discord:

It wouldn't really be safe for anybody in Buffalo who declines to go live in the Commonwealth, but it probably wouldn't provoke a, "Raze it to the ground," response, although the resulting purge would be much stiffer than what the city is already in for.
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Click to shrink...

So while it would be worse than not doing anything, it isn't the response that would be come about if Buffalo was declared a Free City. And if the people voted to be independent from Victoria, we would have every justification to help them find a new place to live where they wouldn't be under threat. I believe the population of Buffalo is also considerably smaller than that of Toledo or Detroit as well, so I doubt think it would be as much of a strain as we think - we have millions of refugees. 50k is a drop in the bucket.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by notbirdofprey on Feb 3, 2020 at 11:47 PM, finished with 259 posts and 100 votes.
  • [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell wants to avoid your main strength and strike where you are weak? Two can play at that game. Advance a couple of divisions as tripwires against an assault from Rochester and disperse the rest into upstate New York. Tear up the industrial infrastructure Blackwell needs to fight these wars, and he will be forced to respond, allowing you to draw him out to battle on your own terms. The risk is that, when he responds, he managed to find a favorable engagement and bleed you enough that the victory you're seeking is denied.
    [X] This isn't worth it. Call for peace with the Loyalists and accept that they will be able to use this travesty as a victory for leverage in negotiations. Victoria will present a peace plan. It will be significantly better for them than what you offered. You get to choose to accept or reject it. Negotiations will keep you locked up long enough that snow will be on the ground and practical campaigning will be done with.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements that you're planning to recognize Buffalo and surrounds -- including the Niagara Isthmus -- as an independent and free city, and are organizing elections to that effect. Blackwell absolutely could not ignore that, and would be politically required to launch an attack immediately, which would get him slaughtered. The downside is that you'd need to get the population out, because anybody remaining behind would have a death sentence on their heads. Something to demand in the peace treaty after you crush Blackwell's assault, in exchange for returning the physical location to him. Also...well, this looks fairly callous, and being used as bait for a trap won't really make the people of Buffalo grateful, much less being relocated from their homes under threat of death afterwards. And if you don't get peace, somehow, you're in the nasty position of having to evacuate a city under siege using your logistics...or leaving it.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell has overplayed his hand; by calling a muster at Rochester, he's given you a concrete target. If you move out to the city with your motorized forces, you should be able cut the forces there off from supply and communications, and force a decisive battle with your superior forces. The risk is that they get enough warning to simply, leaving you very overextended and vulnerable to attacks on your own supply lines.
    [X] Blackwell wants to avoid your main strength and strike where you are weak? Two can play at that game. Advance a couple of divisions as tripwires against an assault from Rochester and disperse the rest into upstate New York. Tear up the industrial infrastructure Blackwell needs to fight these wars, and he will be forced to respond, allowing you to draw him out to battle on your own terms. The risk is that, when he responds, he managed to find a favorable engagement and bleed you enough that the victory you're seeking is denied.
    [X] This isn't worth it. Call for peace with the Loyalists and accept that they will be able to use this travesty as a victory for leverage in negotiations.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue.
    -[X] Blackwell wants to avoid your main strength and strike where you are weak? Two can play at that game. Advance a couple of divisions as tripwires against an assault from Rochester and disperse the rest into upstate New York. Tear up the industrial infrastructure Blackwell needs to fight these wars, and he will be forced to respond, allowing you to draw him out to battle on your own terms. The risk is that, when he responds, he managed to find a favorable engagement and bleed you enough that the victory you're seeking is denied.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
    -[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer,
    -[X] This isn't worth it. Call for peace with the Loyalists and accept that they will be able to use this travesty as a victory for leverage in negotiations. Victoria will present a peace plan. It will be significantly better for them than what you offered. You get to choose to accept or reject it. Negotiations will keep you locked up long enough that snow will be on the ground and practical campaigning will be done with.
    -[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
    -[X] Blackwell has overplayed his hand; by calling a muster at Rochester, he's given you a concrete target. If you move out to the city with your motorized forces, you should be able cut the forces there off from supply and communications, and force a decisive battle with your superior forces. The risk is that they get enough warning to simply, leaving you very overextended and vulnerable to attacks on your own supply lines.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell has overplayed his hand; by calling a muster at Rochester, he's given you a concrete target. If you move out to the city with your motorized forces, you should be able cut it off and force a decisive battle with your superior forces.
    [X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
    -[X] Blackwell wants to avoid your main strength and strike where you are weak? Two can play at that game. Advance a couple of divisions as tripwires against an assault from Rochester and disperse the rest into upstate New York. Tear up the industrial infrastructure Blackwell needs to fight these wars, and he will be forced to respond, allowing you to draw him out to battle on your own terms. The risk is that, when he responds, he managed to find a favorable engagement and bleed you enough that the victory you're seeking is denied.
    -[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
Click to expand...
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.

He tried to use our philosophy against us, so let's do the same to him.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.

[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
 
[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.

[X] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[X] Blackwell is waiting to do enough damage to you that he can land a decisive blow. If you halt where you are and simply wait through the winter, you deny him that opportunity, and this momentary perception of victory starts to fade. Throughout, you'll send annoyance raids using your F-16s; this won't apply much pressure, but it'll at least make the point that you have in no way been beaten by this sanctioned terrorist attack. If he attacks in order to keep his symbolic victory, great, he'll suffer a massive defeat! If he doesn't attack, also fine. You'll withdraw with spring, your point made; that is your walk-away point. The risk is that this one plays really fast and loose with the risk of a regime change which, given the Farmers' stated stance that they'll peace out on first offer, will drastically undercut the message you're trying to convey.
 
Rivenscryr said:
@Exterminatus @MonkeyTypewriter @Forgothrax @kelgar04 @veekie @Chimeraguard @KhazintheDark @Alanek @Rhodes @BrightFuture64 @newgman @Andy0915 @Nate700 @bdun140 @Ptolemy @Chronic @Sturmi @CthuluWasRight @Secondskink @LonelyWolf999 @EBR @Keani @Pittauro

Would you consider voting for this write-in? It's basically the Free State Buffalo option, but superior in how it looks from a PR and diplomacy POV, as instead of forcing a regime change, it offers the people of Buffalo a shot at self-determination.

[ ] This was not a decisive blow, merely a painful setback. It wasn't even a defeat! You achieved your operational objectives and pushed out the forces responsible for this. Operations will continue. Continue the war, now racing internal dissent as well as Loyalist pressure.
-[ ] If you can make it unacceptable for Blackwell to keep waiting you out, he'll be forced to attack you, guaranteeing you a crushing, heavily symbolic victory. Put about on public broadcast announcements of a Plebiscite of Independence for Buffalo. They hate Blackwell more than they hate you, and he knows it. Blackwell absolutely cannot ignore the threat this leaves, and has to to launch an attack immediately - which will end in a dismal failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Editing now, thanks for the heads up!
 
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