[X] Crake
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- United States
I've been eyeing Forest Dragons (I think that's the name). That said Chromatics would be great. I wouldn't mind a few of each kind, even whites. The whites would come in handy against the Efreeti eventually.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
On the topic of the Mind Dragons' lack of a breath weapon, they make up for it with their stinger-tipped tails.
It's a trade-off between not having a built-in AoE option and being able to do extreme single target damage. With the right combination of spells, an Adult Mind Dragon, Mighty or otherwise, could inflict 72 Acid damage per tail strike in addition to the physical damage and poison. Venomfire is harsh like that.
It's a trade-off between not having a built-in AoE option and being able to do extreme single target damage. With the right combination of spells, an Adult Mind Dragon, Mighty or otherwise, could inflict 72 Acid damage per tail strike in addition to the physical damage and poison. Venomfire is harsh like that.
Armor Class: 44 (-2 Size, +2 Dex, +6 Dodge, +15 Deflection, +5 Belt, +4 Mage Armor, +4 Shield), Touch 44, Flat-Footed 36; *Includes continual Haste effect via Channel Vigor (+1 Dodge) & Scintillating Scales (converts Natural Armor bonus to Deflection bonus)
Full Attack: *Includes continual Haste effect via Channel Vigor (+1 Attack bonus, +1 additional Tail Sting), Heroism (+2 Morale bonus to Attacks), & Enlarge Tail (+1 Attack bonus & +2 Damage w/Tail)
Saves: Fort +23, Ref +18, Will +21; *Includes continual Haste effect via Channel Vigor (+1 Reflex save) & Heroism (+2 Morale bonus to Saving Throws)
Skills*: Bluff +18, Concentration +30, Diplomacy +33, Knowledge (Arcana) +25, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +25, Knowledge (The Planes) +25, Knowledge (War) +15, Listen +21, Sense Motive +31, Spellcraft +25, Spot +21, Swim +25; *Gain a +5 Competence bonus to any untrained skill check made using skills not listed here. Includes effect from Heroism (+2 Morale bonus to all skill checks)
Remaining Spell Slots: Cantrips (6), 1st Level (5), 2nd Level (6), 3rd Level (4), 4th Level (3)
Spells In Effect:
Level 1: Enlarge Tail, Mage Armor, Shield
Level 2: Mirror Image, Scintillating Scales
Level 3: Ancestral Awakening, Heroism, Venomfire
Level 4: Freedom of Movement, Psychic Poison
Special Effects of Note:
Full Attack: *Includes continual Haste effect via Channel Vigor (+1 Attack bonus, +1 additional Tail Sting), Heroism (+2 Morale bonus to Attacks), & Enlarge Tail (+1 Attack bonus & +2 Damage w/Tail)
- Normal: 2 Tail Stings +30 (2d6+23 plus poison & 72 Acid damage), Bite +24 (2d8+16), 2 Claws +24 (2d6+10), 2 Wings +24 (1d8+10), Crush +29 (2d8+21)
- w/Unarmed Attacks: Unarmed +29/+24/+19/+14 (3d6+16), 2 Tail Stings +25 (2d6+23 plus poison & 72 Acid damage), Bite +24 (2d8+15), 2 Claws +24 (2d6+10), 2 Wings +24 (1d8+10), Crush +29 (2d8+21)
Saves: Fort +23, Ref +18, Will +21; *Includes continual Haste effect via Channel Vigor (+1 Reflex save) & Heroism (+2 Morale bonus to Saving Throws)
Skills*: Bluff +18, Concentration +30, Diplomacy +33, Knowledge (Arcana) +25, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +25, Knowledge (The Planes) +25, Knowledge (War) +15, Listen +21, Sense Motive +31, Spellcraft +25, Spot +21, Swim +25; *Gain a +5 Competence bonus to any untrained skill check made using skills not listed here. Includes effect from Heroism (+2 Morale bonus to all skill checks)
Remaining Spell Slots: Cantrips (6), 1st Level (5), 2nd Level (6), 3rd Level (4), 4th Level (3)
Spells In Effect:
Level 1: Enlarge Tail, Mage Armor, Shield
Level 2: Mirror Image, Scintillating Scales
Level 3: Ancestral Awakening, Heroism, Venomfire
Level 4: Freedom of Movement, Psychic Poison
Special Effects of Note:
- Psychic Poison (Estadrach): Any creature which targets the Mind Dragon with a Mind-Affecting effect, a Divination effect, or any psionic power, must succeed on a DC 28 Will save or immediately suffer 1d8 points of Wisdom damage, followed by another 1d8 points of Wisdom damage one minute later if they fail a second DC 28 Will save.
- Ancestral Awakening: Used to learn the Sudden Maximize feat, which is in turn used to Maximize a casting of Venomfire so that it inflicts 72 points of Acid damage each time the Mind Dragon succeeds on a Tail Sting attack.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Should we even? Nine Category dragons have the firepower of small nations, but something like the Mind Dragon would be powerful but even if they worked for it, by the time they become Arch Mages they would have fought besides our citizens and maybe even Companions for a lot of battles.
I admit if we could somehow grow hundreds of dragons that powerful at Adult category, we would probably be able to roflstomp any threat, even Devil Legions, Demonic Incursions, Daemon Hosts and even a genocidal army led by the Bloodstone Emperor. We have enough Gods to bless all of them if we make the right sacrifices, so we could even bring more firepower to that fight.
But it would be pretty much impossible to wrangle them all, meaning we wouldn't even bother, or we would have a web on intricate alliances and political shenanigans to deal with. It would literally take up all of our time.
Maybe something like the Wyrmrest Accords in Warcraft, where all the Flights come together to deal with existential threats? That's pretty much the only reason to do something so drastic.
I admit if we could somehow grow hundreds of dragons that powerful at Adult category, we would probably be able to roflstomp any threat, even Devil Legions, Demonic Incursions, Daemon Hosts and even a genocidal army led by the Bloodstone Emperor. We have enough Gods to bless all of them if we make the right sacrifices, so we could even bring more firepower to that fight.
But it would be pretty much impossible to wrangle them all, meaning we wouldn't even bother, or we would have a web on intricate alliances and political shenanigans to deal with. It would literally take up all of our time.
Maybe something like the Wyrmrest Accords in Warcraft, where all the Flights come together to deal with existential threats? That's pretty much the only reason to do something so drastic.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow with red priests genie wars and other minor actions.
- Location
- United States
It's hardly urgent, but by the same token I'm fairly sure we can control whatever dragons we create. I'm fine with waiting a few years on this, by then our position should be a hell of a lot more solid.
Edit: Also for the record I never advocated for hundreds. That would be insane.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I think we need dozens of more equalizers that make having lots of True Dragons in our Empire "neat, and really helpful" rather than "if this ever goes bad we are FUCKED". And the same goes for any major decision which changes the balance of power significantly.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Yeah, I didn't think you or anyone would, but I used that example specifically because we really would be able to roflstomp any kind of threat like that.
And if you think about it harder, any significantly long period of peace without unnatural deaths in the hypothetical dragonflights, unless breeding rights are really tightly restricted, will result in hundreds of dragons maneuvering for more influence against each other. Even if you start off with less than a dozen of any variety.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Is there a reason Tiamat was the one who tempted the Mind Dragons instead of Bahamut ?
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Personally, I favor having a larger number of more quick maturing and less powerful Dragons instead of making lots of True Dragons which will take several centuries to become truly dangerous but as a result can grow more powerful.
Mind Dragons, for example, reach adulthood in just 16 years as opposed to 200, so they're useful and have formed stable, mature personalities. At CR 10 they're not going to be a significant threat if one goes rogue for some reason, but they're also extremely helpful at that point, with a useful range of abilities that serve well in and out of combat. They can become more powerful through leveling, of course, but that requires effort and dedication on their part, which many are unlikely to bother with. True Dragons, on the other hand, will just keep aging and growing more powerful, whether they actively pursue strength or just laze around their favorite cave for a few centuries.
- Location
- United States
We can balance with Fey, Outsiders, etc. we have plenty of options.
True, but even that would be something we could deal with. At that point every Companion would be Mythic and probably outright immortal. Given who we are we certainly shouldn't argue about ignoring long term problems, but by the same token I'm confident that our resources at that point would overwhelm whatever dragonflights there are (in addition to Viserys being the leader for all of them).
Again, I never advocated for making large numbers of true dragons.
Honestly 20 sounds like a better number for Mighty Mind Dragons than 4. Plus make a specked up species of Pyrausta call them Spirit Dragons or something and give them the Venomfire breath attacks to that spark their little cousins have. Literal Venomfire.
Speck them for protection against more Fiendish types of domination compared to the Mind Dragons. Constant Magic Circle Against Evil SLA, up their fast healing and maybe make them Shaman casting and you would be good for a second breed.
A dragon with shaman spells would be unique as far as I know. Or fit that's too limiting Druid or some other class.
Speck them for protection against more Fiendish types of domination compared to the Mind Dragons. Constant Magic Circle Against Evil SLA, up their fast healing and maybe make them Shaman casting and you would be good for a second breed.
A dragon with shaman spells would be unique as far as I know. Or fit that's too limiting Druid or some other class.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
And Bahamut has extremely stringent ideals. There's a decent chance he wouldn't be willing to have anything to do with the Mind Dragons because they were grown in a Valyrian Flesh Forge due to guilt by association.
Sorry, dude. Didn't mean to imply that you did. I just thought it was a good conversation point to mention my preferences for populating the Imperium with larger numbers of lower threat Dragons as opposed to smaller numbers of more powerful True Dragons.
I'm fine with Quasi True Dragons anyway. CR10 natural limits is low enough that a couple hundred of them wont break the Imperium. Some of Yss's people come close to that anyway. Or will when the eggs hatch.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I kinda wanted to keep the number of Mighty Mind Dragons down for fluff purposes. They're our first batch of Dragons and they're special.
I would like to start growing a large batch of regular Adult Mind Dragons next month, though. We can grow 12 Adult Mind Dragons for the cost of a single Mighty Mind Dragon, so rather than growing four more of them, we could grow 48 Adults.
I would like to make a new Dragon type based on the Pyrausta, but I don't have the mental energy to put it all together right now. If you'll PM me a reminder so I don't forget, I'll try to get to them soon.
Sure! So a Shaman Spirit Dragon bases on Pyrausta sounds good?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm not sure if Shamanic magic fits with any sort of Dragon we could grow, since that is generally associated with spirits of nature. What about something with a Druidic angle instead?
Well...Old Gods and Dragon Dreams basically. Weve got Druids for days but not many variants. Having a dragon made by the Old Gods potentially draw power from both their Dreams as well as those of Dragons sounds kinda fitting for something called Spirit Dragons.
Nature Spirits in the Old God Hivemind and Dragon Spirits in the Dragon Dream. Between them just give them whatever domains you want.
That was my thought anyway. Could go with basic Druid. But that fits a rebuilt Forest Dragon than Spirit. Sooo...
Why not both!Nothing says we cant make multiple breeds... apart from the will to make them anyway.
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tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Shouldn't Bahamut be equally a problem? She's the mother of Wyrms sure, but he's the father, so unless we are making Chromatics, they should be equally heard.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
...it really is kind of weird, how an off-handed "Let's make some near-psionic Dragons, because we can" escalated to "We're making a whole new breed of True Dragons now".
Without any RAs associated with that, nor anything.
Just... planned and done in the background, as if mere another fleshforged creature.
Just a weird dissonance I find, compared to all other Fleshforged creatures, in them getting as much attention/screen-time as they've gotten.
-------------------‐---------------
Varys' hatchlings are cute;
Timmie raging is good;
Making more of Mind-Dragons is now on my shit-list until we can verify any new ones don't get secretly claimed by Timmie.
Thanks for the chapter, @dragonaparadox.
[X] Crake
G'night all.
Without any RAs associated with that, nor anything.
Just... planned and done in the background, as if mere another fleshforged creature.
Just a weird dissonance I find, compared to all other Fleshforged creatures, in them getting as much attention/screen-time as they've gotten.
-------------------‐---------------
Varys' hatchlings are cute;
Timmie raging is good;
Making more of Mind-Dragons is now on my shit-list until we can verify any new ones don't get secretly claimed by Timmie.
Thanks for the chapter, @dragonaparadox.
[X] Crake
G'night all.
- Location
- United States
To be honest I was more than a little wierded out that a whole line of research was basically skipped over for no real reason. We had that whole argument which led to nerfing the original research system for the current variant and then all of a sudden this happened.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
To be fair, the Flesh Forge already had all the necessary tools to accomplish this, and we had some first-rate Fleshcrafters working on it. Creating Dragons wasn't ever out of the realm of possibility, and Saenena's completed research this month makes that even more reasonable. It was basically a happy accident that what started out as suped up Pseudodragons evolved into a new Dragon species. It's kinda like how Lya critted on the Magic Bedroll so long ago and ended up with a really nice bit of gear which should have been well beyond her level of ability.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
I don't think Bahamut do guilt by association, he would have resurrected Viserys for free if Dany rejected Tiamat, considering Dany is red dragon blooded just like us, I think that rather definitely show, he judge people by their deeds not their birth.
Bahamut probably didn't approach them, because he want to give them the chance to make their own choices, he probably don't want to try to control them, he want them to come to him, so it's 100% their choice to join him.