A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I don't want to think about creature building right now?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It's manageable, at least to a certain extent.
There are only three types of creatures that are problematic;
I'll see what alternatives I can find for them, though outright immunity to Mind-Affecting effects isn't likely to be on the table. At the very least, we can equip them with PfE items.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Well, damn, this is kinda sad.
Sorry for not chiming in earlier.
Either way, thank you for the work you're doing.
I think we can keep Champion of Yss as-is tho', that's one exception that, methinks, can be forgiven..?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Nirah is fine. There were no Plant-related templates applied to him.
Make the Plant versions in the Fungus forge at a lower CL and have them shipped off to Gogossos for "upgrading"? That will work for the Drakenbeast since the base creature with just the plant template is less than CR10.
For the others we are kinds SooL.
For the others we are kinds SooL.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
So, instead of this:
How about this:
The Sea Serpents get some really nice bonuses from the Half-Dragon template, and between it and Advanced, they get enough of an Intelligence boost to not be stupid monsters.
The Sperm Whales won't be the brightest bulbs among our forces, but they will be sentient. Shadow Creature gives them some decent defensive options, including Resistance to Cold and Electricity, Damage Reduction, Spell Resistance, and Shadow Blend, which is basically Blur and will apply almost constantly underwater.
The Darkenbeasts get the same treatment as the Sea Serpents, along with the Fiery Creature template. That'll give them some supplementary DR, Immunity to Fire & Vulnerability to Cold, and a nice chunk of Fire damage with all of their melee attacks.
The only really big loss here is that they won't be innately immune to Mind-Affecting effects, but PfE items will mitigate the worst of that. Ya'll all right with these substitutions?
How about this:
CRs don't change.
The Sea Serpents get some really nice bonuses from the Half-Dragon template, and between it and Advanced, they get enough of an Intelligence boost to not be stupid monsters.
The Sperm Whales won't be the brightest bulbs among our forces, but they will be sentient. Shadow Creature gives them some decent defensive options, including Resistance to Cold and Electricity, Damage Reduction, Spell Resistance, and Shadow Blend, which is basically Blur and will apply almost constantly underwater.
The Darkenbeasts get the same treatment as the Sea Serpents, along with the Fiery Creature template. That'll give them some supplementary DR, Immunity to Fire & Vulnerability to Cold, and a nice chunk of Fire damage with all of their melee attacks.
The only really big loss here is that they won't be innately immune to Mind-Affecting effects, but PfE items will mitigate the worst of that. Ya'll all right with these substitutions?
Sure but upgrade to the Fungus Forge just went up the priority list a bit. Who knew we were that used to slapping plant templates on things? It's just too useful to not take advantage off.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
So to explain kind of, why, to the extent, the Bracken-Blackwood feud is such a headache, let me sort of outline my thought process based on what we know of the two families, and our own House's history with them.
Our family has tried to broker their way past, or fucked up and fouled up, the relationship between these two Houses for nearly three centuries. We have had some sort of involvement with them all throughout that period of time, for good and ill. In this case it's Good with the Blackwoods. We have somewhat further back, but not distant so-as-to-be ancient history family ties with them. For all the good it did both our Houses. Still, it's not like our family did anything to spite them up until Aerys' reign... more from benefit of neglectful rule.
*sigh*
The point is their reception should be tentatively open-minded. We're a champion of the Old Gods and that is abundantly clearly veering on the side of Chosen One for all the Old Gods don't have prophetic figures or saviors.
But trying to broker a marriage alliance as some have suggested? Right out the gate? Before the dust is even settled? Full-stop not happening. This isn't small-minded "you're not thinking like a dragon enough", you have to understand THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE. By our House. It never works. Hoster Blackwood says that was because both sides weren't fully willing, but totally leaves out the fact that some marriages have been brokered where both spouses were pretty content with the arrangement--both the maiden and the groom being compatible and happy with the match isn't the obstacle here and has never been the obstacle. Hoster is young and naive and completely ignoring the fact that the current Bracken Lord is really one of those Bracken Lords. In canon he wanted to seize Blackwood lands. And not "a fair sized chunk" of them, I mean the list of lands was AUDACIOUS beyond measure.
It was enough land to turn a Great House like Blackwood into a basically the social equivalent that House Glover falls into. Not quite Lords, not quite landed Knights.
It did not take long at all for him to turn his knives onto those ends once it was clear no one was around to bother him. And when the Lannisters rolled up to end the siege on Raventree Hall he was still going in hard for it and had to be talked down to a significant amount less, and still probably enough to threaten Great House status.
Yeah, extenuating circumstances in canon. But that kind of move falls into the "no small harm" rule of what you do to your enemies.
Anyway, I digress massively.
A marriage is off the table--right away. We can always try to turn the usual brinksmanship between these two Houses into long term gains. For one thing, economic trade ties through a new cadet branch of both Houses giving favorable advantages to both would be a bit of a balm. But that's just a single brick on a feud that's existed since long before the Andals arrived in Westeros.
So our goal shifts away from "how to handle this courtship" entirely away into "getting Hoster to not fuck everything up while we broker a truce". Which we can do with our usual levers and certain assurances regarding the other House.
Our family has tried to broker their way past, or fucked up and fouled up, the relationship between these two Houses for nearly three centuries. We have had some sort of involvement with them all throughout that period of time, for good and ill. In this case it's Good with the Blackwoods. We have somewhat further back, but not distant so-as-to-be ancient history family ties with them. For all the good it did both our Houses. Still, it's not like our family did anything to spite them up until Aerys' reign... more from benefit of neglectful rule.
*sigh*
The point is their reception should be tentatively open-minded. We're a champion of the Old Gods and that is abundantly clearly veering on the side of Chosen One for all the Old Gods don't have prophetic figures or saviors.
But trying to broker a marriage alliance as some have suggested? Right out the gate? Before the dust is even settled? Full-stop not happening. This isn't small-minded "you're not thinking like a dragon enough", you have to understand THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE. By our House. It never works. Hoster Blackwood says that was because both sides weren't fully willing, but totally leaves out the fact that some marriages have been brokered where both spouses were pretty content with the arrangement--both the maiden and the groom being compatible and happy with the match isn't the obstacle here and has never been the obstacle. Hoster is young and naive and completely ignoring the fact that the current Bracken Lord is really one of those Bracken Lords. In canon he wanted to seize Blackwood lands. And not "a fair sized chunk" of them, I mean the list of lands was AUDACIOUS beyond measure.
It was enough land to turn a Great House like Blackwood into a basically the social equivalent that House Glover falls into. Not quite Lords, not quite landed Knights.
It did not take long at all for him to turn his knives onto those ends once it was clear no one was around to bother him. And when the Lannisters rolled up to end the siege on Raventree Hall he was still going in hard for it and had to be talked down to a significant amount less, and still probably enough to threaten Great House status.
Yeah, extenuating circumstances in canon. But that kind of move falls into the "no small harm" rule of what you do to your enemies.
Anyway, I digress massively.
A marriage is off the table--right away. We can always try to turn the usual brinksmanship between these two Houses into long term gains. For one thing, economic trade ties through a new cadet branch of both Houses giving favorable advantages to both would be a bit of a balm. But that's just a single brick on a feud that's existed since long before the Andals arrived in Westeros.
So our goal shifts away from "how to handle this courtship" entirely away into "getting Hoster to not fuck everything up while we broker a truce". Which we can do with our usual levers and certain assurances regarding the other House.
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- Location
- Germany
Or we flip a coin and end the house that gets the face.
The other house gets their lands in full.
Fair for everyone.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
That's Plan B.
Edit: And likely to favor House Blackwood because well... it's just cleaner for us. Get rid of a Seven worshipping pain in the ass.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm leaning toward a modified @Artemis1992 plan. We flip a coin, the heads of the Houses call it, and whichever side wins gets to keep their lands. We keep the loser's lands and relocate the entire family to a suitable location in Essos. We have a lot of newly available Essosi territory that needs competent management, and either family should be able to handle that.
The stupid kids both give up their family names and we whip up a new one for them and settle them in SD or somewhere far from their original families.
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egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Wait, where are we getting this from, again?
Is it Lya's lore from R'hlor's book?
Because we need to further experiment with it to fleshforge fire-related templates afaik:
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
We gained access to Fire-related templates when we claimed the Flesh Forge. Them Valyrians sure did love burning shit.
- Location
- United States
I am very grateful you've been in charge of diplomacy
The Flesh Forge of Gogossos naturally has mundane templates, dragon-themed templates, and fire-themed templates.
- Location
- E-Girl Deseret
- Pronouns
- She/Her
BRB, making a "Viserys Shepard" in Mass Effect.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Nuh-uh, they are Westerosi, you won't make me feel shame for shit.
But yeah, this.
Much as I dont want to have anything to do with Westeros, it is an inseparable part of the Quest, and it would all go down badly if we stopped diplomancing the fuctards all of a sudden.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
You can be the velvet glove to my flaming Valyrian Steel fist!
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
It would just be a shame if I didn't bother, is all, because we would all semblance of being a charismatic peace broker in under a week.You can be the velvet glove to my flaming Valyrian Steel fist!
As far as the setting goes, from what we've learned of our ancestors and just feudal relations-based politics in general, tyranny makes a poor bible to preach from, and it always tumbles down on the tyrant's head because they can crush a hundred or even a thousand rebellions, but it only takes one.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Don't flatter yourself, you've lost all the rights for claiming "Glorious Goldfish Diplomacy" for your own when you actually actively diplomanced shit during the Conclave.You can be the velvet glove to my flaming Valyrian Steel fist!
Shame!
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- Location
- Germany
Come on, other people have produced useful diplomacy too at times.
Including Goldfish.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I'm not saying he never tries, but we wouldn't come across as someone relied upon to broker peace or forge alliances so much as just a typical wily wyrm who's always got some kind of cunning angle, only trusted as far as thrown (which isn't very).
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
