@Crake, as a side note, mayhaps we should vote on making it a standing policy to supply every lord we turn with a PFE-ring and a Healing Belt at the very least - alongside with the "Basic Knowledge of How Not To Die"-pile of books we started sitributing this month?

Would make every Westerosi Lord's life much weirder and scarier, for one, and that's a definite win in my books.
:V
 
  1. How would just declaring that crimes committed outside of an area we had not conquered yet are outside the jurisdiction of our courts come across? Would this weaken the rule of law or allow it to continue on as planned?

It would be the expected outcome, though at that point the lord's lawyer may argue that Viserys has not make brigandage legal so it seems strange that the law was not upheld. then it becomes a very public discussion on if the Lads were a legitimate military force or jumped up bandits. At that point some royal spin is really required.
 
I agree with the underlying sentiment here about maintaining the rule of law, but at the same time Ser Benjicott has been very loyal and very useful and rewarding that is important. This makes arranging for him to be found guilty utterly unacceptable.
That's why I say we let him be found guilty, but let him simply pay for a resurrection instead of being punished otherwise, at the same time we of course richly reward him when we arrive in Westeros, which mean he will have plenty of money to pay the weregeld.

We make a show of our favor not meaning you're above the law, but we also reward him richly, so that the cost of the resurrection is easily paid by him.
 
@Crake, as a side note, mayhaps we should vote on making it a standing policy to supply every lord we turn with a PFE-ring and a Healing Belt at the very least - alongside with the "Basic Knowledge of How Not To Die"-pile of books we started sitributing this month?

Would make every Westerosi Lord's life much weirder and scarier, for one, and that's a definite win in my books.
:V
In some cases, this is easy enough to be automatic, but others are warier of the aid. We can work out this issue in-depth later, even if it's just passing on a complimentary PfE ring to every Lord at some sort of large function.
 
On the Path to Conquest

Twentieth Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

Ser Halmon Paege reacts with surprising sagacity to having an unexpected letter drop onto the saddle pommel in front of him while he is riding. True, his eyes widen and his knuckles go white on the parchment as he reads, but he does not linger overlong on the task. The fact that it is printed in true-speech, like the parchments you spread last month, speaks to its veracity more than the wax seal ever could, but you included that as well in case he is inclined towards tradition. He does not look the sort, between the faintly disheveled hair and scruffy beard, wearing boiled leather and chainmail while on the hunt and counting somewhere around thirty namedays, but in such unsettled times many look to tradition for security.


Thus when he dismounts and warily looks about, you come before him as the heir of Aegon, his crown clear upon your brow with Dark Sister at your right hand, though you hide neither the cloak of flowing gold nor the arcane rings upon your fingers. "Hail and well met, my lord," you greet. "If your horse can bear to bide a while along the trail here, I would speak with you on matters that concern all of the Riverlands, and all of the Seven Kingdoms in truth."

"A grim day for the Riverlands when it is involved in matters of all the Seven Kingdoms... Your Grace," the knight replies with only a moment's hesitation. Perhaps to gather his thoughts, he glances over at Rina and Ser Richard who introduce themselves in turn, one curt, the other still uncertain what greeting one is supposed to make upon appearing from thin air in the woods like a grumpkin in a child's tale. The real answer is, of course, 'whatever greeting suits you', but that is something she will have to figure out for herself.

"You speak of war," Ser Paege says, turning back to you again. Is he usually this blunt, or has the surprise not quite worn off and this is how he shows it, you wonder. Regardless, you appreciate the plain speaking.

"I speak of war, yes, but also of what must come after war, infrastructure, trade, the turning of the world," you answer smoothly, for these are words you would carry to all the Riverlords. "It is a sad truth that war for the Iron throne so often leads to the burning of towns and the scouring of fields. Why is it that in one of the of the Seven Kingdoms, with rivers to serve as its arteries and the King's Road for its spine, there is not one city worth the name? Because warriors visit it too often and builders too seldom."

So, unhurried and with care, you lay out your infrastructure projects with examples of what you have done already in Essos and the Stepstones, the message clear in every account. He does not have to risk anything besides the scowls of Hoster Tully to raise his banners in your name. You do not need Paege armsmen to win the Riverlands, but you would very much prefer not to see them stand against you.

It seems you have judged the man well, for he does not seem insulted by the unspoken implication, taking the knee and reciting his vows as so many other lords and ladies had done already. Not your most enthusiastic supporter, certainly, but there are far worse things that can be said of a lord than that he prefers a quiet life.

Your next meeting, however, will be perhaps a touch more tricky. While you have never met Lord Chester Roote, you have certainly made the acquaintance of many of his people at Harroway, and while you had given aid there, it had not been in a way to leave the House in a good light. The fact that the lord had been trying to contact the Mootons was certainly encouraging, and the divination you worked hours ago an assurance of the fact that he will meet with you, but you will have to tailor your introduction with more than a letter from the blue.

How do you meet with Lord Chester Roote?

[] The Merchant Gambit, if it isn't broke...

[] Pass a letter though the septon of Harroway, he seemed a diplomatic enough fellow

[] Send a construct raven with a letter, its almost traditional

[] Write in


OOC: And here we are, not the most complex discussion, but then this guy is far from a major lord so he would not have many requests at the best of times. In the middle of the woods with an unexpected dragon is not that time.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, @DragonParadox.
 
It would be the expected outcome, though at that point the lord's lawyer may argue that Viserys has not make brigandage legal so it seems strange that the law was not upheld. then it becomes a very public discussion on if the Lads were a legitimate military force or jumped up bandits. At that point some royal spin is really required.
Did they kill that lord's son before or after officially and directly swearing to us?
After they were definitly a paramilitary force in our service, before it's more problematic.
 
That's why I say we let him be found guilty, but let him simply pay for a resurrection instead of being punished otherwise, at the same time we of course richly reward him when we arrive in Westeros, which mean he will have plenty of money to pay the weregeld.

We make a show of our favor not meaning you're above the law, but we also reward him richly, so that the cost of the resurrection is easily paid by him.

To be a little clearer on this, it would open a rather large can of worms to punish anyone for a crime that was not committed on your territory. The precedent would get a lot of people heading to the courts to demand all sorts of reparations that are not feasibile to give in the current sociopolitical context

Did they kill that lord's son before or after officially and directly swearing to us?
After they were definitly a paramilitary force in our service, before it's more problematic.

Before, they told you guys about it when they finally got to the Deep.
 
Did they kill that lord's son before or after officially and directly swearing to us?
After they were definitly a paramilitary force in our service, before it's more problematic.
While it is more problematic, I believe we do have an exit of sorts.

I don't think Benjicot ever swore to Robert (both because he didn't want to and because no one bothered asking him) so by definition he was still sworn to the Targaryens. Therefore his actions in mustering troops and fighting against the rebels are completely legit even if we didn't order him to, he was acting within his duties as our vassal.

If he was some normal bandit or even just a noble who changed sides and is now intending to change again he'd be harder to bail out, but being a knight who stuck with the legitimate government from the start has benefits.
 
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I'd opt to solve this problem directly by just interceding under the table and pledging smooth legal support on the matter of "my heir was dead, now he's not".

This would be touchier if the reigning Lord had died and someone else succeeded him, but right now that's not the case. While I wouldn't subscribe to cast blame on Viserys for the actions of guerillas fighting in his name, in this case they really weren't intending on killing Ser Keath, he was just, you know, trying to kill them. With extreme prejudice.

Whether they could set aside vengeance entirely is another matter.
 
[X] Send a construct raven with a letter, its almost traditional
-[X] While waiting for a response, drop by and speak with that Septon in Harroway. Just general small-talk and rumor milling.
 
To be a little clearer on this, it would open a rather large can of worms to punish anyone for a crime that was not committed on your territory. The precedent would get a lot of people heading to the courts to demand all sorts of reparations that are not feasibile to give in the current sociopolitical context
Then we let him lose the case, and maybe raise his son, as a reward for trying to do things the legal way, instead of hunting Benjicot down.
 
That's why I say we let him be found guilty, but let him simply pay for a resurrection instead of being punished otherwise, at the same time we of course richly reward him when we arrive in Westeros, which mean he will have plenty of money to pay the weregeld.

We make a show of our favor not meaning you're above the law, but we also reward him richly, so that the cost of the resurrection is easily paid by him.

Has the issue of honor/reputation being sullied which is important to some people. So consider the precedent that will be set if swearing to Viserys still leads to punishment.


Might be better to divide the issue into multiple parts.

After being formally sworn in, they are an official paramilitary force. So military actions are covered as legitimate.

Before that, it gets fuzzier. At what point would they legitimately be considered as Targaryen Loyalists that just happened to be unable to directly swear their oaths? Obviously, they aren't outside the law just because they haven't been able to formalize it.

I think one solution is for Viserys to make this a matter of case-by-case judgement with the Crown offering restitution to any damaged parties that were deemed unfortunate casualities.

So in this case, Viserys would directly pay for the resurrection of the dead heir and/or compensate for damages against civilians within reason while clear military targets are out of luck.

This would mean that any natives that chose to raise the banner for Viserys can count on his protection, both materially and socially without damaging the rule of law.
 
Before that, it gets fuzzier. At what point would they legitimately be considered as Targaryen Loyalists that just happened to be unable to directly swear their oaths? Obviously, they aren't outside the law just because they haven't been able to formalize it.
The way I figured it, Benjicot swore his oaths to the Targaryen line ages ago and as far as we know never retracted them, since unlike most Lords we deal with he decided to leave his lands due to them being completely ravaged, and therefore was not important enough to bother compelling. This means that since the war never stopped, he never stopped being a combatant. And as someone who is technically a landed knight (nevermind that his lands have been occupied by the enemy for decades now) it is his duty to raise a host of men that is within his means to fight for House Targaryen during the ongoing war.

This means anyone who in turn swore to him, namely all of the Lads excepting the other knights with big families but including all the landless hedge knights of no particular lineage, was officially our vassal.
 
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So after meeting Lord Roote, I'm thinking we meet Lord Theomar Smallwood, and then after that we visit House Wayn, then we see what's trouble House Lolliston and hopefully solve their supernatural issues, or at least alleviating the symptoms.

Afterwards, it's kind of a trick deciding between visiting House Lychester or House Keath. But I think we can pull off a clean sweep.
 
So after meeting Lord Roote, I'm thinking we meet Lord Theomar Smallwood, and then after that we visit House Wayn, then we see what's trouble House Lolliston and hopefully solve their supernatural issues, or at least alleviating the symptoms.

Afterwards, it's kind of a trick deciding between visiting House Lychester or House Keath. But I think we can pull off a clean sweep.
You think we'll be able to get the important Riverlands houses dealt with this month?
 
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