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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Heck if we play our cards right, we can rob the Masters of all their knowledge before they do some stupid shit, and try to burn everything in a petty effect of denying us their knowledge.
 
Deliste said:
Three times I've edited my post and three times I lost it, embedded maps and all :mad:

The Westerlands is quite well bottlenecked though not nearly to the extent of the Vale or Dorne.

The River Road is the portal to the Riverlands and must traverse the headwaters of the Red Fork and Tumblestone, controlling both of those controls this path.

The Iron Islands and the Arbor will handily manage their navy if the Dragons don't beat them to it.

Taking Crakehall and the adjacent forest shuts down the Ocean Road.

Taking control of the Lesser Mander removes any southward cross country aspirations they might dream up.

The Gold Road has the duality of being both the most securely held path for the Westerlands (traditionally speaking at least) and also the most susceptible to our interference, Guerilla tactics within the mountain portion itself will likely allow us to outright bury portions of that road with spell based Earthquakes and Landslides.

Without the Gold Road to King's Landing it will be near impossible to make even a pyrrhic push for the capital and given traditional thinking once this becomes clear Tywin is going to rapidly lose whatever remaining support he might have as the bannerman see no working path to overall victory.

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Question how do you suggest that we shut down the Gold Road? Or does the Gold Road not matter?
 
Speed53066 said:
Heck if we play our cards right, we can rob the Masters of all tyre knolage before they do some stupid shit, and try to burn everything in a petty effect of denying us their knolage.
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Even if they do that Lya will just restore the books from the ashes. ;)
Deliste said:
Given it cuts straight through the mountains it should be relatively simple to cut it off entirely by causing rockslides or Titan Tooling artificial chasms because they can't just go around.
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surprise!fortresses is a tactic I very much want to use in the conquest.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Devils are literal personifications of evil. We can grind them for evil-juice. Just grafting devil-flesh warps your very self and turns you evil.
Of course people have a negative bias against devils, and they're totally justified!
Sure, devils (like Celestials) can have personalities that make it possible to manoeuver them into doing what we want and thinking long-term. But if we let a Celestial go around it'll get in our way but generally make people's lives better. A devil roaming in our lands? That's a serious problem that we murder and sacrifice as soon as possible, and not only will it be disruptive to the state but it will also make innocents suffer!

And remember, Erinye aren't Richard. They aren't Lawful Neutral. They are focused on DUTY, but also PRIDE and are likely to kill people who get in the way unless we maneuver them into not doing it.
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I'm like over a year out of this discussion, but I'd just like to point out the Furies are no longer devils. The thing that makes devils irredeemable and vile, is that the connection to the Abyss. Such a connection guarantees that they remain pure evil and engage in all kinds of fucked up nonsense.

We also didn't take some torture or pestilence demon that gets its rocks off on killing babies and sever their connection to Baator and call it good. Furies are cruel in war. They have honor, and are lawful. Lawful does little if those they service endorse and encourage cruelty, but clearly Viserys will not would not do this.

Malarys is lawful evil in a similar vein, self interested, prideful, and cruel at need (his opinion of need.) All we do with him is be clear that he's to be cruel at our need not his, and to not assign him tasks against his self interest or pride. I don't see a difference.
 
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Absoloot said:
I'm like over a year out of this discussion, but I'd just like to point out the Furies are no longer devils. The thing that makes devils irredeemable and vile, is that the connection to the Abyss. Such a connection guarantees that they remain pure evil and engage in all kinds of fucked up nonsense.

We also didn't take some torture or pestilence demon that gets its rocks off on killing babies and sever their connection to the Abyss and call it good. Furies are cruel in war. They have honor, and are lawful. Lawful does little if those they service endorse and encourage cruelty, but clearly Viserys will not would not do this.

Malarys is lawful evil in a similar vein, self interested, prideful, and cruel at need (his opinion of need.) All we do with him is be clear that he's to be cruel at our need not his, and to not assign him tasks against his self interest or pride. I don't see a difference.
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Not sure if being ironic or sincere.

But the Abyss is a different place than Baator.
 
Abyss= Literal shithole of the Multiverse, if the Others ate it people would consider it good, if very dangerous cause we need somewhere to put the trash in
Hell=Baator= The plug so the trash doesn't leak, more often used as a plunger
 
Crake said:
Not sure if being ironic or sincere.

But the Abyss is a different place than Baator.
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My bad. Typed it up on my phone after reading a lot of discussion and didn't proofread it. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm admittedly very new to D&D lore so there may be big gaping holes in my thought processes.
 
Absoloot said:
My bad. Typed it up on my phone after reading a lot of discussion and didn't proofread it. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm admittedly very new to D&D lore so there may be big gaping holes in my thought processes.
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Eh essentially a typo, the themes you assigned to "Abyss" basically reflect a layman understanding of Baator I guess.

There are endless possible arguments in the minutiae of course.

Iirc the argument you're quoting was like 30% nomenclature, but for good reason, so meta-ironic.
 
Ha yeah. Oops :oops: . I should really wait to comment until I'm on my laptop.

This discussion specifically was about alignment but they're was a lot of shading due to the Furies being Devils, which I thought was weird. I mean we fought Mammon for this very reason right? So they aren't devils any more?

I don't see how a Lawful Evil Outsider is necessarily more evil or impossible to work with than a lawful evil mortal I suppose. Everyone seems okay with Malarys but very quick to jump on the "make 'em lawful neutral train" for our resident fallen. My problem is the "make" part of that equation.
 
Absoloot said:
Ha yeah. Oops :oops: . I should really wait to comment until I'm on my laptop.

This discussion specifically was about alignment but they're was a lot of shading due to the Furies being Devils, which I thought was weird. I mean we fought Mammon for this very reason right? So they aren't devils any more?

I don't see how a Lawful Evil Outsider is necessarily more evil or impossible to work with than a lawful evil mortal I suppose. Everyone seems okay with Malarys but very quick to jump on the "make 'em lawful neutral train" for our resident fallen. My problem is the "make" part of that equation.
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Not taking a stance one way or the other here but it may help your understanding of arguments to consider that Outsiders are "More" their alignment than mortals, embodying it more deeply and rigidly.

Mortals are the Willow and Outsiders the Oak, this is why Good Outsiders "Fall" and Good Mortals do not.
 
Deliste said:
Not taking a stance one way or the other here but it may help your understanding of arguments to consider that Outsiders are "More" their alignment than mortals, embodying it more deeply and rigidly.

Mortals are the Willow and Outsiders the Oak, this is why Good Outsiders "Fall" and Good Mortals do not.
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That makes sense, but that doesn't make them stupid yeah? Yreal was able to negotiate and come to agreement with Viserys who's done a lot of objectively evil things, if for good reasons. Just seems silly to me to assume that evil outsider = kicks babies ya know?

After all these years of service, in the quest today have the Furies been more trouble than they're worth?
 
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Angelazreal1 said:
Does Storm's End have a particularly good library or is this part of copying every book in existence?
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Just part of copying every book in existence.

As a general rule of thumb all the Lord Paramounts have extensive libraries in part due to once being kings who've retained their rule for millennia. Even if it's not magical lore it's still plenty useful architecture, economics, geography, history, mathematics, etc.
 
More then anything, we need to have a central library, along with a good amount of copies of different books so that the knowledge would not be lost in case of total collapse. That is one hell of a CIV killer, without knowledge, the entire CIV is dead. It happed with the Roman Empire, Egypt, DOTA Humanity form 40k, and a good amount of India. The more copies we have, along with the fundamentals, our CIV may be able to stand the test of time.

As for the others, we may need exportation of dragon glass to the north and the wall. It can be a trade good for the north because the others are greatly harmed by that, valeraion steel, and our new shinny, and expensive Other Bane weapons.
 
Speed53066 said:
As for the others, we may need exportation of dragon glass to the north and the wall. It can be a trade good for the north because the others are greatly harmed by that, valeraion steel, and ou
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Luckily we have retained control over the portal to Plane of Molten Skies if I recall correctly.

While only opening on the full moon that is a stable, mobile portal that we can shovel untold amounts of Obsidian through, both solid obsidian useful for construction of many things and the naturally present Obsidian Sand which is ultra-fine Obsidian I personally plan on salting the defensive clearance north of the Wall with.

They'll be marching on stumps by the time they make it to the Wall proper.
 
Deliste said:
While only opening on the full moon that is a stable, mobile portal that we can shovel untold amounts of Obsidian through both solid obsidian useful for construction of many things and the naturally present Obsidian Sand which is ultra-fine Obsidian I personally plan on salting the defensive clearance north of the Wall with.
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Well, if you want to go the building route, the wall can always use more supports and castles as well.
 
Speed53066 said:
More then anything, we need to have a central library, along with a good amount of copies of different books so that the knowledge would not be lost in case of total collapse. That is one hell of a CIV killer, without knowledge, the entire CIV is dead. It happed with the Roman Empire, Egypt, DOTA Humanity form 40k, and a good amount of India. The more copies we have, along with the fundamentals, our CIV may be able to stand the test of time.

As for the others, we may need exportation of dragon glass to the north and the wall. It can be a trade good for the north because the others are greatly harmed by that, valeraion steel, and our new shinny, and expensive Other Bane weapons.
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The serpentfolk method of making stone copies of their books was very clever.

If possible I'd also like a set of the library in Viserys' cloak.
Deliste said:
Luckily we have retained control over the portal to Plane of Molten Skies if I recall correctly.

While only opening on the full moon that is a stable, mobile portal that we can shovel untold amounts of Obsidian through, both solid obsidian useful for construction of many things and the naturally present Obsidian Sand which is ultra-fine Obsidian I personally plan on salting the defensive clearance north of the Wall with.

They'll be marching on stumps by the time they make it to the Wall proper.
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We will need a way to make sure a blanket of snow and ice don't totally negate our efforts there.
 
Speed53066 said:
More then anything, we need to have a central library, along with a good amount of copies of different books so that the knowledge would not be lost in case of total collapse. That is one hell of a CIV killer, without knowledge, the entire CIV is dead. It happed with the Roman Empire, Egypt, DOTA Humanity form 40k, and a good amount of India. The more copies we have, along with the fundamentals, our CIV may be able to stand the test of time.
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There are informal OOC plans for independent caches of lore in the far future, written/carved on hardened weatherproof materials to stand the test of time.

Spell protected binders of Hardened Quartz micro-plates should go a long way to ensuring knowledge is never entirely lost, though it may wait a while to be found.

Whatever method we choose we will need at least in part a de-centralised approach to knowledge preservation, the first thing any truly destructive great power is going to do is finish the job that Hammer of the Waters started and wipe the Stepstones entirely off the map.
 
Absoloot said:
Yreal was able to negotiate and come to agreement with Viserys who's done a lot of objectively evil things, if for good reasons
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Tbf this was more on Viserys' diplomatic skills and [Spoilers], but DP did say that when we made the Archons accept Blood Sacrifice Asmodeous would give us a business card if he could
Absoloot said:
Just seems silly to me to assume that evil outsider = kicks babies ya kno
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I mean, a demon might do it for shits and giggles, a Devil will do it if it's orders, or is one of the more oriented to brutality

The Furies are kind of an special case cause they lean more into the Duty Aspect of things, for the joined the first Angels in Hell because they couldn't stand the destruction of the Mortal World anymore by the hands of demons, so if serving a mortal advances that why not?

Mammon was just pretty bad at the part of the job furies are more interested in
 
By the way im kinda curious have we planned for visiting the moon or no?
I think it would be epic to build an unassailable moon base, just imagine slowly hollowing out the moon and building a mega structure.
 
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