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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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[X] Commonwealth Hardball: You expected to compromise, but you are the victors, here, and Victoria will not be permitted to dictate terms in any sense. Reroll for, "Commonwealth Hardball," at DC 50.
 
[X] General All the Way (DC 30)
[X] Peace is the Lifeblood (DC 30)
[X] Freedom is the Right...!! (DC 30)
[X] Plan: Do the Right thing
[X] Total Industry MK7 DC 30
[X] Budget Cuts 2: Budget Cut Harder
[X] And STAY OUT! DC 25+5= 30
[X] Take The Money And Run DC30
[X] Protector's Sandwich Mk. II DC 30
[X] Plan Copyleft
[X] Victorian response

I want peace, I'll narrow it down later if it looks like it's pulling ahead.
 
[X] This Or No Deal
[X] Commonwealth Hardball
[X] General All the Way (DC 30)
 
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Why vote for commonwealth hardball? It immediately gives the Vics back their prisoners, which would probably cause their civil war to be over significantly earlier, causing the treaty to last even less. While at the same time only having war guilt and annulment over the total industry mk.7 .

Its also taking a 50/50 chance for something that only takes 1/6 more points of options. Something that statistically is not exactly worth it.
 
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[X] General All the Way (DC 30)
[X] Peace is the Lifeblood (DC 30)
[X] Total Industry MK7 DC 30
[X] Budget Cuts 2: Budget Cut Harder
[X] Victorian Response

Here I am voting for all the autopass plans because right now I just don't want to risk us throwing away this treaty.
 
Annulment is necessary if we want to open a path down the Mississipi and down to the Gulf of Mexico.
War Brides is an intel windfall. And an ethical necessity.

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[X] Victorian Response
-[X] War Reparations Clause, Acquisitive: +5
-[X] Artifact Reclamation Clause +5
-[X] War Guilt Clause +5 DC
-[X] Militia Clause -5
-[X] Prisoners of War Clause, Immediate -20
-[X] War Brides Clause, Exchange +15
-[X] Free Migration Clause +30
-[X] Johnson Doctrine Clause +10
-[X] Annulment Clause +25
-[X] Hostile Neutrality Clause -15
-[X] Seaway Clause, Commonwealth: +30
-[X] Lakes Access Clause: -20


[X] Take The Money And Run DC30
-[X] War Reparations Clause, Acquisitive: +5
-[X] Artifact Reclamation Clause +5
-[X] Militia Clause -5
-[X] Prisoners of War Clause, Immediate -20
-[X] War Brides Clause, Exchange +15
-[X] Free Migration Clause +30
-[X] Johnson Doctrine Clause +10
-[X] Annulment Clause +25
-[X] Non-Intervention Clause +10
-[X] Hostile Neutrality Clause -15
-[X] Seaway Clause, Commonwealth: +30
-[X] Lakes Access Clause: -20



I need to go AFK for a bit, but it bears noting that Total Industry is leaving money on the table by delaying PoW return.
That's 10 points that could buy a whole bunch of other options.
 
By delaying POW return, we do not give blackwell a core of experienced troops to use, or accelerate militia training. We get value out of those points technically not used by prolonging the civil war.
 
[X] General All the Way (DC 30)
[X] Peace is the Lifeblood (DC 30)
[X] Budget Cuts 2: Budget Cut Harder
[X] Victorian Response
 
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[X] Total Industry MK7 DC 30
[X] Budget Cuts 2: Budget Cut Harder
[X] Freedom is the Right...!! (DC 30)
 
[X] Take The Money And Run DC30

Wiadi said:
That's my part (b), yes. You still haven't accounted for (a) and are assuming that Poptart didn't correct for the change.
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As for the first part of your point, here's the original explanation.
PoptartProdigy said:
Target DC: 30.

This is your plan. I have edited the plan DC to account for the Victorians pushing back on your proposal. You must now choose between three options:
  1. The plan is not negotiable. Reroll against the new DC. If you fail, negotiations conclude with the Commonwealth walking out and the war continues.
  2. You can rearrange your terms, offer more concessions, or cut demands as you please to lower the DC but not down to the target DC, and then roll again. This raises the DC by a further 5. If this roll fails, negotiations conclude with the Commonwealth walking out and the war continues.
  3. You can rearrange your plan such that it meets the target DC and passes negotiations automatically. Both parties sign the resulting peace treaty.
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You should be able to note that the pushback is edited into the plan DC rather than the target DC. Which is, funnily enough, entirely consistent with my stance. Almost like I've been continually going back, looking at the evidence, and citing it.
 
[X] Peace is the Lifeblood (DC 30)
[X] Total Industry MK7 DC 30
[X] Budget Cuts 2: Budget Cut Harder
[X] Take The Money And Run DC30
[X] Victorian Response
 
[X] General All the Way (DC 30)
[X] Peace is the Lifeblood (DC 30)
[X] Freedom is the Right...!! (DC 30)
[X] Plan: Do the Right thing
[X] Total Industry MK7 DC 30
[X] Budget Cuts 2: Budget Cut Harder
[X] And STAY OUT! DC 25+5= 30
[X] Take The Money And Run DC30
[X] Protector's Sandwich Mk. II DC 30
[X] Plan Copyleft
[X] Victorian response
 
uju32 said:
Annulment is necessary if we want to open a path down the Mississipi and down to the Gulf of Mexico.
War Brides is an intel windfall. And an ethical necessity.

******************
[X] Victorian Response
-[X] War Reparations Clause, Acquisitive: +5
-[X] Artifact Reclamation Clause +5
-[X] War Guilt Clause +5 DC
-[X] Militia Clause -5
-[X] Prisoners of War Clause, Immediate -20
-[X] War Brides Clause, Exchange +15
-[X] Free Migration Clause +30
-[X] Johnson Doctrine Clause +10
-[X] Annulment Clause +25
-[X] Hostile Neutrality Clause -15
-[X] Seaway Clause, Commonwealth: +30
-[X] Lakes Access Clause: -20


[X] Take The Money And Run DC30
-[X] War Reparations Clause, Acquisitive: +5
-[X] Artifact Reclamation Clause +5
-[X] Militia Clause -5
-[X] Prisoners of War Clause, Immediate -20
-[X] War Brides Clause, Exchange +15
-[X] Free Migration Clause +30
-[X] Johnson Doctrine Clause +10
-[X] Annulment Clause +25
-[X] Non-Intervention Clause +10
-[X] Hostile Neutrality Clause -15
-[X] Seaway Clause, Commonwealth: +30
-[X] Lakes Access Clause: -20



I need to go AFK for a bit, but it bears noting that Total Industry is leaving money on the table by delaying PoW return.
That's 10 points that could buy a whole bunch of other options.
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The sooner he gets his Troops back, the sooner he feels confident in his position (both from the added numbers and from winning the war) and thus the sooner he is likely to break the treaty. Immediate prisoner of war exchange is not a free gimme.
 
me.me.here said:
You should be able to note that the pushback is edited into the plan DC rather than the target DC. Which is, funnily enough, entirely consistent with my stance. Almost like I've been continually going back, looking at the evidence, and citing it.
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Click to shrink...

Yes, the plan DC increases by 5 on top of what it otherwise would be. Thus a "DC 30" plan is actually DC 35, and you need to take only 65 points of options (for an original DC of 25) to have a new DC of 30. I don't see how this is unclear.
 
Wiadi said:
Yes, the plan DC increases by 5 on top of what it otherwise would be. Thus a "DC 30" plan is actually DC 35, and you need to take only 65 points of options (for an original DC of 25) to have a new DC of 30. I don't see how this is unclear.
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Allow me to explain then - "target" and "plan" are not the same word. Therefore, when "plan" DCs and "target" DCs are identified (as different values, no less) separately, they are not referring to the same thing.

I have now shown you citations for where this issue came from as well as multiple people seeking and receiving clarification to prove my point, and I'm getting sick of you continually restating your position with no evidence so I'm stopping here.
 
[X] Commonwealth Hardball: You expected to compromise, but you are the victors, here, and Victoria will not be permitted to dictate terms in any sense. Reroll for, "Commonwealth Hardball," at DC 50.

[X] This Or No Deal: You offered the peace you are willing to accept. If Victoria is unwilling to take that peace, then they will not have peace

Victoria lost this war, and lost badly. They do not get to make counter offers. They get terms dictated to them and they can take them or try to keep fighting us and the fanatics in their civil war. Walking away or threatening to is a very valid tactic here, and we should not be doing anything to their Response but laughing derisively.
 
[X] This Or No Deal: You offered the peace you are willing to accept. If Victoria is unwilling to take that peace, then they will not have peace
 
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