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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Our Imperium will be staffed by people saying "So what if Heavens gone? We'll just make a new one."
That's a common attitude to tie a civilization together.
 
In terms of sharing the secret, let us not be overly shy. Most of the people we tell won't share because they won't want to think about it much, and because we'll order them not to and obviously there's a punishment attached to disobeying. Further more, since there's a punishment, those who do want to share will try to share it discreetly, and when it spreads by such means it'll quickly become "Unsubstantiated Rumor of DOOM #147". Those who try to tell the truth openly will probably sound deranged, even more so than what they're say does since they'll be the ones who take it specially badly, so people will ignore them.

There's no danger of a leak that leads to generalized panic, because this fact is just too horrible for anyone to believe it.
 
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065tdsa said:
In terms of sharing the secret, let us not be overly shy. Most of the people we tell won't share because they won't want to think about it much, and because we'll order them not to and obviously there's a punishment attached to disobeying. Further more, since there's a punishment, those who do want to share will try to share it discreetly, and when it spreads by such means it'll quickly become "Unsubstantiated Rumor of DOOM #147".

So there's really no danger of a leak that leads to generalized panic, because this fact is just too horrible for anyone to believe it.
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I wouldn't count on it being too horrible to believe. We could easily wind up with demagogues making death cults if we're too lax with who this is shared with. This is the kind of news that is perfectly capable of causing mass panic, the concerns of our governors are valid in that regard.
 
Our planned afterlife is a sort of dreamless sleep, right? Or do we have pleasant dreams planned?
Do we have a Hell equivalent, or are we going with "we don't judge people, just put them in a peaceful sleep"?
And will there be an option for souls to willingly leave and go towards whatever afterlife their Gods handle?

I would obviously prefer pleasant dreams, not judging (it's easier and doesn't require giving our pet God a mind) and would prefer to give people the "I want to leave" option.
 
Duesal said:
I wouldn't count on it being too horrible to believe. We could easily wind up with demagogues making death cults if we're too lax with who this is shared with. This is the kind of news that is perfectly capable of causing mass panic, the concerns of our governors are valid in that regard.
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The news is capable of causing massive panic, if it's news. If it is one unsubstantiated rumor of doom among the many that circulate currently, it can't do anything. The cults are just some more cults, we already deal with tons of them, and better ones too since they're built by our actual enemies. Public panic would be the problem, but that'd require the news to become public, rather than something spoken of by shady sorts in alleyways.
 
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DragonParadox said:
"The Celestial Planes are broken, shattered beyond all hope of recovery by forces of near unimaginable power and malignance, and have been for many thousands of years. Heaven itself is occupied by the armies of Hell..." No one moves and no one speaks as you give a brief account of what you had seen in Heaven what you had heard of the other bright realms, taking advantage of numbing shock while you can.
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This is only Viserys in character opinion right? When we first learned of this, you said it was theoretically possible to do something like repair the celestial planes, they wouldn't be the same as they were, but you said it was theoretically possible, to make something new and just as good out of them.
 
tarrangar said:
This is only Viserys in character opinion right? When we first learned of this, you said it was theoretically possible to do something like repair the celestial planes, they wouldn't be the same as they were, but you said it was theoretically possible, to make something new and just as good out of them.
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It depends on your definition of the world recovery, if you mean rebuild 'a heaven' that is theoretically possible, restoring all that was lost no.
 
DragonParadox said:
Secrets of the Spheres Part Two ​

Thirty-First Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

"My friends and allies, I have asked you here to share news of grave import, of truths that have recently come to light which I fear might shake the foundations of civilization upon this world." The words would sound overwrought, a little foolish perhaps under other circumstances, but something about your tone or your expression seems to hold all in the chamber silent and watching, almost holding their breath. "There is no easy way to say this, no pretty words to ease your minds, so I will share what we have learned. If you do not wish to retain this knowledge after we adjourn, you have but to ask and I will personally remove the information from your mind. None should think lesser of you for the choice, I assure you."

You very much suspect that were Amrelath in his true form he would have filled the hall with choking smoke at the mere notion that he might be too weak to take any news, much less that he would renege his own memories from fear. Relath is more subtle though not by much, while Uthero reaches for Alysande's hand and Lady Phassen takes a deep breath her eyes growing ever so slightly distant in what you suspect is a light trance, to distance herself from her emotions perhaps.

"The Celestial Planes are broken, shattered beyond all hope of recovery by forces of near unimaginable power and malignance, and have been for many thousands of years. Heaven itself is occupied by the armies of Hell..." No one moves and no one speaks as you give a brief account of what you had seen in Heaven and what you had heard of the other bright realms, taking advantage of numbing shock while you can.

"Well shit..." It would be Saan to break the silence. "And here I was thinking of buying my way into paradise once my stomach was too soft for drinking and my cock for fucking."

"How can you joke about something like this?" Uthero asks horrified.

Before the mood can spread Yrael interjects softly: "Tears will not mend that which was lost, let him jest if he still can. It does no harm."

The archon's sheer sincerity has the gift of doing something you had been almost certain was impossible, embarrass Saladhor Saan. The old pirate sinks slightly into his seat, letting others speak up.

"We need not be victims to the weakness of mortal flesh, there are ways to transcend sickness, violence, and even age," Wyla interjects with the certainty of one who had stepped beyond the veil of death and returned, though you doubt it is unlife she is thinking of now. "You need not worry for your stomach... or any other part of you, master Saan. It is not we at this table who are most imperiled by the dreadful truth here revealed, it is our people."

"Gods still protect the souls of their worshipers, though they are besieged by fiends and other darker creatures," Malarys notes, his voice calm and certain as ever. "The world is cracked, 'tis true, but not broken beyond repair, and the slaves of the Void might have made it had they triumphed when the long night fell that seemed without end..." And so he offers them an enemy. Vast and implacable though it may be, it is still a foe, something to fight and strive against, not just some senseless calamity that can only be endured, like a line cast to a drowning man, to everyone besides the dragons at least. Relath looks like he is calculating the trading opportunities the revelation opened.

"Making war upon armies of devils or other horrors is not..." the Sealord's voice shakes ever so slightly but he steadies himself by sheer will a moment later. "It is not something many of us here can do, but we can insure this information is not spread unchecked through trade, sowing panic, and to encourage the worship of gods who might protect the souls of the dead. The world has been thus for six thousand years and more, and yet it could not have all been gloom and darkness. After all, it lead to our own existence here and now."

It takes a moment for the sardonic humor to register, birthing smiles as much from sheer bemusement as aught else, but then the obvious call to focus on the present registers and you can see others try to rally.

Thankfully, there is yet hope to be found beyond the prospect of bailing water from the sinking ship. "Although I can make no promises for now, we have not given up on setting this lamentable situation aright, even if only in some small corner of existence where the souls of our people may rest in peace, undisturbed by the turmoil of the Upper and Lower Planes," you proclaim, careful to add. "That will be an endeavor years in the making, however, one on which I cannot further speculate at this point."

"Am ambitious plan, cousin," Amrelath hisses. Once, he might have added something about how little mortals are worth the attempt, but by now he knows enough of your values and motives not to waste his breath.

"I believe full inquisitors should be told the truth, lest tearing away the veil make them waver or fail in their duties," Garin speaks up to fill the silence that follows. "Does anyone object to the notion?"

"I would add the very most senior magistrates to that," Malarys interjects, to be followed a moment later by Alinor speaking for the most senior administrators and Gerald for the legion. Practicality, even the practicality of intrigue, goes a long way to push aside the horror of the revelation. You are gratified to see that no one had asked to have the memory removed, though you suspect quite a few will look to alchemy for dreamless sleep for many nights to come.

Teana is the most insistent that all the Scholarum branch heads, or better still, all instructors, be told the truth, for fiends would all too easily use it to breed despair. Despite this assertion, she is as keenly aware as all of you, that the farther the secret spreads the harder it will be to keep it one.

To what level do you wish to spread the knowledge of the Sundering in various Imperial institutions?

[] Administration: Write in

[] Legion: Write in

[] Inquisition: Write in

[] Magistrates and Lawmen: Write in

[] Scholarum: Write in

OOC: The Sealord keeps rolling really well for some reason, not just on his will saves against despair but on social rolls where he is usually only fair to middling since he's got an administrative/intrigue focus. Not yet edited.
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Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
[] Administration: At the Vizier-equivalent's discretion, these files may be unsealed in such cases as they deem it appropriate or necessary, likely dependent upon the region the officials are working in.

[] Legion: All members of Imperial High Command will be informed by an unsealing of files upon achieving that rank, unless psychological evaluation and divination proves this to have deleterious effects unforeseen. Though 'unforeseen' is in emphasis here, as this essentially means that as a rule of thumb, those who will mentally crack or be cast down into despair at the knowledge will be less likely to achieve that rank, and the highest ranks in the military are by personal appointment regardless.

[] Inquisition: Branch heads and Inquisitors. Every member of the Inquisition will henceforth be coached and evaluated until such a time that this knowledge be more widely known within the wider apparatus of the intelligence community, as they are the most likely to trip upon this fact first. Senior personnel will have these files unsealed to them when they are deemed ready for promotion or they are simply regarded as veteran and hardened enough to withstand it.

[] Magistrates and Lawmen: Senior Government and Law Enforcement officials will have these files unsealed to them only in the cases where they have received direct coaching from a Companion or the Crown on similar matters, if they are deemed trustworthy, and if they are discrete.

[] Scholarum: Branch heads and ideally instructors, even if it takes personal coaching from Viserys and Company. Ideally, you would want every single mage before leaving on their Journey of Wisdom to understand the reality of this situation, though that is a concern for the Scholarum itself to begin working against.

Thoughts?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Our planned afterlife is a sort of dreamless sleep, right? Or do we have pleasant dreams planned?
Do we have a Hell equivalent, or are we going with "we don't judge people, just put them in a peaceful sleep"?
And will there be an option for souls to willingly leave and go towards whatever afterlife their Gods handle?

I would obviously prefer pleasant dreams, not judging (it's easier and doesn't require giving our pet God a mind) and would prefer to give people the "I want to leave" option.
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...tbh, I considered Imperial Dream's potential goal to be something more akin to celestial bureaucracy than what Green Dream of OGs is.

The way I see it, with how hard-coded it would be inti Imperium and intertwined with it's Gods, the first thing it should offer is an opportunity for a new soul to either stay in Dream, or be transported to their chosen Deity's afterlife.

After that... well, for one, I'm pretty sure that souls can be given more entertaining/useful tasks than mere dreaming.

After all, they will one day end up being our very own LN Outsiders - so it would but make sense to turn it into an amalgamation of (LN) Heaven and a dreamworld, imo.

Gnight all.
 
DragonParadox said:
It depends on your definition of the world recovery, if you mean rebuild 'a heaven' that is theoretically possible, restoring all that was lost no.
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I mean rebuild a heaven that's just as splendid, even if it's inhabited by different Celestials, have different Landmarks, and generally is not the heaven of old, but something new but equally as Good and powerful.

I don't expect us to be able to restore Heaven, I hope we might in time be able to use the remains to build a new Heaven, that's at least as good as the old one was.
 
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065tdsa said:
Compared to the real cults we need to deal with, those guys would be amateurs and with little real support besides.

The news is capable of causing massive panic, if it's news. If it is one unsubstantiated rumor of doom among the many that circulate currently, it can't do anything. The cults are just some more cults, we already deal with tons of them. Public panic would be the problem, but that'd require the news to become public, rather than something spoken of by shady sorts in alleyways.
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The problem is it's actually true, and there are methods of verifying. Anyone who just asks Yss for example will probably get a straight answer. If this is handled improperly and the wrong people are told, and they in turn spread the news when they really shouldn't (and it is news, people in Prime Material actually didn't know. Even the Yi Tish only have a legend of Heaven's gates closing, not of Heaven being totally destroyed), then we're sure to have a mass panic which demagogues and fiends will happily exploit.

I don't want to spend months cleaning up after sloppiness.
TalonofAnathrax said:
Our planned afterlife is a sort of dreamless sleep, right? Or do we have pleasant dreams planned?
Do we have a Hell equivalent, or are we going with "we don't judge people, just put them in a peaceful sleep"?
And will there be an option for souls to willingly leave and go towards whatever afterlife their Gods handle?

I would obviously prefer pleasant dreams, not judging (it's easier and doesn't require giving our pet God a mind) and would prefer to give people the "I want to leave" option.
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I always imagined our afterlife as a heavily fortified citadel, a pitstop where all souls of the Imperium wait to be escorted to other divine planes by devas or whatever else is there. Anyone who wants to stick around in the Imperium afterlife can get moulded into a unique Outsider eventually designed by us, further guarding the citadel. A dreamless sleep seems a bit bland imo.
 
Crake said:
[] Administration: At the Vizier-equivalent's discretion, these files may be unsealed in such cases as they deem it appropriate or necessary, likely dependent upon the region the officials are working in.

[] Legion: All members of Imperial High Command will be informed by an unsealing of files upon achieving that rank, unless psychological evaluation and divination proves this to have deleterious effects unforeseen. Though 'unforeseen' is in emphasis here, as this essentially means that as a rule of thumb, those who will mentally crack or be cast down into despair at the knowledge will be less likely to achieve that rank, and the highest ranks in the military are by personal appointment regardless.

[] Inquisition: Branch heads and Inquisitors. Every member of the Inquisition will henceforth be coached and evaluated until such a time that this knowledge be more widely known within the wider apparatus of the intelligence community, as they are the most likely to trip upon this fact first. Senior personnel will have these files unsealed to them when they are deemed ready for promotion or they are simply regarded as veteran and hardened enough to withstand it.

[] Magistrates and Lawmen: Senior Government and Law Enforcement officials will have these files unsealed to them only in the cases where they have received direct coaching from a Companion or the Crown on similar matters, if they are deemed trustworthy, and if they are discrete.

[] Scholarum: Branch heads and ideally instructors, even if it takes personal coaching from Viserys and Company. Ideally, you would want every single mage before leaving on their Journey of Wisdom to understand the reality of this situation, though that is a concern for the Scholarum itself to begin working against.

Thoughts?
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Sounds good to me.

[X] Crake
 
I think that we should have a watered down version of this for the general populace. The problem is fiends using this info to break people. So we need tospin the narrative so that they don't end broken upon hearing this.

TalonofAnathrax said:
Our planned afterlife is a sort of dreamless sleep, right? Or do we have pleasant dreams planned?
Do we have a Hell equivalent, or are we going with "we don't judge people, just put them in a peaceful sleep"?
And will there be an option for souls to willingly leave and go towards whatever afterlife their Gods handle?

I would obviously prefer pleasant dreams, not judging (it's easier and doesn't require giving our pet God a mind) and would prefer to give people the "I want to leave" option.
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I'd prefer an afterlife as a citizen of the Imperial Afterlife, doing taks that help the Empire from beyond the grave. Of course, anybody can leave when they wish to. Kinda like Axis, but without a stick shoved up our butt.
 
Duesal said:
The problem is it's actually true, and there are methods of verifying. Anyone who just asks Yss for example will probably get a straight answer. If this is handled improperly and the wrong people are told, and they in turn spread the news when they really shouldn't (and it is news, people in Prime Material actually didn't know. Even the Yi Tish only have a legend of Heaven's gates closing, not of Heaven being totally destroyed).
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There's ways to verify it, for the intelligent individual. What matters is to make sure the masses don't know. So long as all individuals keep silent and any who doesn't is seen and treated like what they are, namely someone deranged enough to go about spouting this on a public street, we won't have problems.
 
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tarrangar said:
I mean rebuild a heaven that's just as splendid, even if it's inhabited by different Celestials, have different Landmarks, and generally is not the heaven of old, but something new but equally as Good and powerful.

I don't expect us to be able to restore Heaven, I hope we might in time be able to use the remains to build a new Heaven, that's at least as good as the old one was.
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That is not impossible, though of course whether something is 'as good' is very much a subjective evaluation. I can't really say more on the matter without delving into the sort of speculation I really shouldn't as the GM.
 
Tomcost said:
Kinda like Axis, but without a stick shoved up our butt.
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...pretty much, yes.
We beat people with our stick instead :drevil:

I'm not sure how soon, if ever, we'll be able to make souls into LN Outsiders (R'hlor's holy ritual and Anu's forge projects seem like first tenativest of steps on the path), but with how bloated the official Panthon will inevitably be by that point, using the Imperial Dream as a Hub of sorts for all souls seems the most sensible solution.

That Gods could get power from it without being actively changed (and defending ID in reurn) is but a cherry on top of keeping souls away from the mess that Planes are.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is not impossible, though of course whether something is 'as good' is very much a subjective evaluation. I can't really say more on the matter without delving into the sort of speculation I really shouldn't as the GM.
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With as good I basically mean have roughly the same strength as the old heaven, the flow of souls is fixed, so Heaven can once again accept all worthy petitioners who want in, life in Heaven is good, and the devils have long being kicked out.
 
[X] Administration: At the Vizier-equivalent's discretion, these files may be unsealed in such cases as they deem it appropriate or necessary, likely dependent upon the region the officials are working in.

[X] Legion: All members of Imperial High Command will be informed by an unsealing of files upon achieving that rank, unless psychological evaluation and divination proves this to have deleterious effects unforeseen. Though 'unforeseen' is in emphasis here, as this essentially means that as a rule of thumb, those who will mentally crack or be cast down into despair at the knowledge will be less likely to achieve that rank, and the very highest ranks in the military are by personal appointment regardless.

[X] Inquisition: Branch heads and Inquisitors. Every member of the Inquisition will henceforth be coached and evaluated until such a time that this knowledge be more widely known within the wider apparatus of the intelligence community, as they are the most likely to trip upon this fact first. Senior personnel will have these files unsealed to them when they are deemed ready for promotion or they are simply regarded as veteran and hardened enough to withstand it.

[X] Magistrates and Lawmen: Senior Government and Law Enforcement officials will have these files unsealed to them only in the cases where they have received direct coaching from a Companion or the Crown on similar matters, if they are deemed trustworthy, and if they are discrete.

[X] Scholarum: Branch heads and ideally instructors, even if it takes personal coaching from Viserys and Company. Also ideally, you would want every single mage before leaving on their Journey of Wisdom to understand the reality of this situation, though that is a concern for the Scholarum itself to begin working against.

[X] In General: "This is going to cost many people their lives. Let us not pretend otherwise. It is our responsibility as officials with more mental fortitude than the average citizen to protect this knowledge and see it safely into the hands of those who will act equally responsibly in our work against that which our Enemy deems inevitable."
-[X] Staring Relath and Amrelath in the eye unflinchingly as you speak: "Though the average person is unable to cope with this knowledge, despair on such a scale is simply a tool for our Foe. It benefits Nothing and No One. In this case the weakness of the body is a weakness of the mind, and we are of that mind. Do you all understand?" If not compassion, then resolution to be better than either Valyria or the Ancestors that came before even them, to allow this blight to continue as it pleased, ignored until there was nothing more that they could do to stop it. "A world which we can live in as we please is impossible, if it's one the majority cannot bear to."
-[X] "Let us make that better world, then. Together."
 
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