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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Yun said:
I'd honestly be shocked for that on even a natural one. What was far more likely is a lines is drawn in dwarven society between the younger holds who are in a reconquest mood after the success in K8P, and the really old ones who're stuck in the strike out a grudge in the book mood. In short they stop talking with the others, and cooperation goes down the drain, which risks Grudges being entered into the Book if something horrible happens like a Hold falling as a result.
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To a degree those lines already exist though. And while only the High King can strike out grudges in the Dammaz Kron, I'm pretty sure refusing to do so when they've been avenged is a massive insult. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a grudge against Thorgrim now.
 
Nix's Warden said:
I'm curious BoneyM about what caused this. Was it a result of the Younger Holds contributing more dwarf power then the Old Holds bar the singular exception of Kragg The Grim? Was it Baragor embracing a nontraditional mindset? I'm very curious about any light you could cast on this.

Also I assume its Top 3 choices win like last time?
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It's been building for a while, and from a number of things. The Young Holds rolling better than the Old Holds initially was one bit, and Mathilde's rerolls doubling that certainly contributed. Manling contributions, Halfling contributions. All the Dwarves on his Council of War are either Young Hold or... Kragg. And while Kragg is a hell of a contribution, if you look at it a certain way it's also a hell of a message. Karak Izor sent hopeful young settlers, Karaz-a-Karak sent the embodiment of Dwarven conservativism. Then there's Mathilde's contributions, which saved lives again and again and again through assassination and wizardry. That's a hell of a lot of reasons to stop holding the traditions to be sacrosanct.

So when Belegar got to Karaz-a-Karak, when the automatic and inevitable reaction is 'oh boy look at all these crossed-out Grudges' Belegar was not really in a place to be happy that that was his High King's take-away from the sacrifice of twelve thousand lives.

And yeah, I edited in the Top 3 thing a few minutes after posting.
 
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Sassing the High King in his own castle, in front of a manling? Damn, what got into Belegar?

[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.

Supporting foreign relations with key allies counts as the good of the empire, right?

[X] Karag Lhune secondary peak
[X] The Grand Abyss

I'm prepared to go either way with this. The secondary peak has great growth potential and is very convenient, but the abyss does have the advantage of distance from prying eyes and the ability to hurl arcane mishaps into a bottomless pit.

[X] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[X] Join Karak Azul as they raid and scout in force the other portions of the Karak.
[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.

Give Ranald his due, maintain the momentum in the reconquest, and put that shiny new coin to use in not dying horribly when we poke all that shit we absolutely should not have.
 
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BoneyM said:
and you approve shrines to Shallya, Ulric, Myrmidia, Ursun, and the Lady
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Damn it Mathilde, don't let them bring that Elf shit in here.

BoneyM said:
[ ] This is Dame Weber's money. The funds will largely go towards investment in Stirland - possibly your fief, possibly the EIC, possibly investing elsewhere within the province.
[ ] This is Magister Weber's money. Make no attempt to push the funds through any of the available loopholes and spend it all in plain sight of the College. You would be beholden to spend it on ways at least nominally good for the Empire, and soon.
[ ] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
[ ] This is tomorrow's problem. Let the money sit in the King's Armoury for now. Once you've decided what your future will be, then you can decide what to do with the money.
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Dame Weber: Stirland debt, Niter factory, probably the EIC. We actually probably have so much money on hand we'll over saturate here.
Magister Weber: Spending for the good of the Empire, bit awkward considering out location.
Dawongr Weber: We have a lot of stuff to spend on locally, the Tower, Equipment, temples, priests, land, housing, etc. Probably the best choice.

BoneyM said:
To distract yourself from your unseemly wealth, you go shopping for a tower.

...okay, perhaps that only makes it seem worse, but it is something that needs to be done. As Karag Nar has demonstrated, there's a lot of real estate being snapped up right now and if you want something nice you better make a move early.
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Nothing really stands out as particularly notable since they haven't been marked out as amazing magical loci. Probably just grab whatever looks comfy and can be set up easy I think.

BoneyM said:
[Total: 32.]
[Dwarf Favour cannot be spent in Karaz-a-Karak]
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Holy shit, that's twice as much as I expected.


[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with its reconquest, as a Spymaster focused on threats within the Karak.
Basically half the reason we're here. Time to kill some gribblies. We have our fog of war trait and know well the dangers of an unknown enemy so let's make then known (and then kill them). My top priority.

[X] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to deal with the spiders in the Chiselwards.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with its reconquest, as a Spymaster focused on threats within the Karak.
Get our journeymanlings to stay. I like the implication of dealing with threats as well. Number 3 priority along with the other keep Amber WIzards action.

[] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans.
Ehh, I don't actually care all that much about this right now. But I do like Ranald so I'll throw it in although it's not that high of a priority for me. Since no one really wants the location as well it doesn't seem that important to spend time claiming it.

[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
This suggests a future of investigation and study at Karak Eight Peaks, and perhaps helping Johann poke at Skaven technology.
Yes the research! Our MAP, the runecasting, the greenskins, everything else. This narrowly missed out on the last vote so I'm hoping it gets in this time, my second highest priority I think. Also I like the idea of getting the journeymanlings to do our work.

[] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.
Yep the Snake Juice option. Finally. But we also have a number of other research options that are priorities so I think maybe leave this for the next action when we don't risk losing our amber wizards and fresh memories of magic. Additionally spending an entire week and a valuable action just to pick up a box right now when we can grab it for free later on seems wasteful.

[ ] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to hatch the supposedly Lustrian eggs and study and possibly train whatever hatches.
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.
Get our journeymanlings to stay again. Also suggests research which is good. Number 3 priority along with the other keep Amber WIzards action although lower priority than the other Amber Wizard choice since Spiders are on a deadline.

[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
 
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BoneyM said:
- The above says Mathilde is not entirely sure if this Silver Tower is the Silver Tower of Warhammer Quest. Neither am I. Can anyone shed some light?
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From what I remember, Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower is set during the Age of Sigmar, which is after the universe was remade because Chaos won. So I'm fairly certain this isn't the same tower.
 
Prospalz said:
What we got is that "slack" I suppose. Dwarfs are notoriously stubborn. Throgrim is notoriously stubborn, and he gave up on actual rebuilding of Karaks in this Quest, it seems. Or puts it a distant second to dwarf race going out with a bag like they are all took a Slayer's Oath.
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No Throgrim goal in life is to strike out every single Grudge in the Book of Grudges. Meanwhile Belgar being of an unorthodox mindset takes issue with focusing on that over a massive victory, andall the lives who died to accomplish it.
 
[X] This is Magister Weber's money. Make no attempt to push the funds through any of the available loopholes and spend it all in plain sight of the College. You would be beholden to spend it on ways at least nominally good for the Empire, and soon.
I don't think the grey college would like us flaunting the rules much. Lets try and keep a good relationship with the College.

[X] Karag Nar penthouse
Offers a great a commanding view.

[X] The Grand Abyss
What knoweldge could be gained from the deeps?

[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
Learning Learning learning learning.

[X] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to hatch the supposedly Lustrian eggs and study and possibly train whatever hatches.
Here murder beast, murder beast.

[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
The snake juice calls to me.

[X] You're going to have a rough time explaining your windfall to the Bursars. Better to get that over with.
We really don't want to get on the bad side of the college. The grey college is known for being fairly zealous with enforcing their rules.

[X] Join Karak Azul as they raid and scout in force the other portions of the Karak.
Our waaghbane trait makes us stuidply good at being a force multiplier and preventing orcs from gaining any magical ground.

[X] You've been out of touch for a while. Head to Barak Varr and then Altdorf, and catch up with what's been happening in the Empire.
I like the Empire and I want to know what is happening over there.

[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
What other plans can be stopped? What other victories can be earned? All from the shadows.
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
[x] Karag Nar temple
[x] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.
[x] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[x] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.

[X] The Grand Abyss

[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
[X] Join Karak Azul as they raid and scout in force the other portions of the Karak.
[X] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.
[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.
[X] You're going to have a rough time explaining your windfall to the Bursars. Better to get that over with.
 
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taovkool said:
What is the beef between Thorgrim and Belegar anyway? I thought they get along rather well?
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Thorgrim basically feels the Dawi are on the way out and their goal now should be to die with a clear tally of racial sin to offer the ancestors on the way out. To avenge every grudge with what strength remains instead of waiting until they run out.

Belegar just got a firm lesson though that the Dwarfs aren't finished yet, and with stout allies and sharp minds, they can forge anew what was lost. But that sort of runs counter to Dwarf traditions because those traditions have already been solved by most of their greatest foes.

There was naturally a clash. Because if Belegar keeps winning, he's going to bring in a strong interest in reclaiming the other holds. This will cost strength in the failed attempts, and add new grudges to avenge at no real gain.

It's honestly the Young Hold vs Old Hold dichotomy that just flared up now that the former has a champion who can't be shrugged off.
 
Also, among other things, Belegar was one of the favorites for next high king, on a platform of reclaimation, before Thorgrim appeared out of nowhere to get everyone really hyped about sorting out grudges. (though, to be fair, he was looking like the #2 choice behind UNGRIM, which would probably have been full vengeance with even less hope)
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.

[X] The Grand Abyss

[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
[X] Join Karak Azul as they raid and scout in force the other portions of the Karak.
[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in there.

Belegar has some stones on him.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Hmm. So it is. @BoneyM if it were to come up, is it possible for a noble of the Empire to change their coat of arms?


It could also mean that she wants less to do with Stirland, that's she's moved on (not necessarily repudiated it) but gotten over some of the events. Or that she has decided to have closer ties with the Karaz Ankor, that she's seeking to fit in there slightly better.

I know you said there were lots of reasons, but I wanted to give some more positive ones.


I get you're joking, but I'm not sure the Dwarves took any of it. Looting their dead enemies isn't massively their style, and the only thing I think they'd have kept would be the Phoenix Crown, which has more to do with the symbolism than anything else.
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During the War of the Beard the Dawi captured Elvish Magical Weapons and Accessories to dispel and drain the magic from them.

Kind of a "I spit on you even after slaying you!" gesture rreall. Plus the Dwarves distrust any magic that is not Runic, so they would see such Magical Gear as unexploded ordinance more or less.
 
TheOmnimercurial said:
During the War of the Beard the Dawi captured Elvish Magical Weapons and Accessories to dispel and drain the magic from them.

Kind of a "I spit on you even after slaying you!" gesture rreall. Plus the Dwarves distrust any magic that is not Runic, so they would see such Magical Gear as unexploded ordinance more or less.
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I don't know how canonical that is. It's something I only saw in Torroar's quest, which bends canon a lot. Like, a lot a lot.
 
taovkool said:
What is the beef between Thorgrim and Belegar anyway? I thought they get along rather well?
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I'm not sure whether this is right or not, but I'm guessing its due to the difference from canon and how it caused a different attitude to Belebro. In canon, the expedition didn't really go anywhere and that Belegar focused more on the old holds for help. This not only made him closer to the old holds and have a more traditionalist mindset, but also caused him to be less hopeful and more desperate for any help in general.

However, in this quest, Belegar is far more open minded due to his relations with thr newer holds and the expeditions great success also brough about great amount of hope for the future. He is also doing well in resource and manpower, so he have more options and has a bit more freedom in stating his opinions, without too much worry of pissing of some dwarves and losing the reinforcements from them. This however kind of go against Thogrim. Dude might be a beast and rather popular, but in a way, his method and ideal is fatalist. His way of doing things is basically with the idea that the dwarves ain't getting any better and they should go out with a great hurrah, which is by finishing as much grduge as possible.

This led a different in ideals, one filled with hope and one filled with bitter resignation, which culminated in the rather tense situation we were in.
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
[X] Karag Nar penthouse

[X] King Belegar is allowing you to use the King's Armoury. Recover your extant study materials from Stirland and tuck them away safely in here.
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[X] There's a growing concentration of royalty here. Get to know King Kazador, and this 'Sky-Thane' Prince Gotri.

so, 15 favor on a kickass weapon, 10 on getting our tower constructed, 8 on training in rifles and axework? that uses 33 of our 35 dwarf favors. we will want to get the weapon going while Krag and Thorek are here.
 
Anyway though, Gray College will probably accept us using the windfall to supercharge the development of what will assuredly be the major land trading hub of the Old World, as long as we take care to make it an early warning system for gribblies from the east and send them useful research data, the point of the oath of poverty is to discourage Gray Wizards from getting a taste for gold and letting it influence them unduly. As long as we're sinking it into things that better the Empire's overall interests, we'll probably be okay.
 
[X] All this time away has made you miss your friends. Visit Anton and Wilhelmina.
 
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