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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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egoo said:
Ah, but the fact that it isn't done for HD alone was half my point to begin with.

We aren't hurting for sacrifices anymore.
Not in items, nor in "people".

And grabbing random bags of Daemon-blood off the planes...
Well, it won't change much, will it?

They still have all their massive regular forces and their champions.

I am trying to push through the idea because I think we have a chance of actually affecting the plans of four Horseman with it, and weak offensе is better than no offense, yes?
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I'm not sure we actually want to do anything that would actually be effective for a while. We're probably not going to cripple anything they need to get on plane, and dragging another party into open conflict would be a problem.
das_slash said:
Ok, plan B, we force-fed The Other Rhaella a bunch of power by getting her a proper court.
First we look for a lot of Dryads seeds, and plant them on our other ships, lesser Dryads of course, but part of her court.
Then we ask her how she needs to produce her own seed, if she is a Queen that would give us an interrupted line of Fey royalty to produce our Island Queen.
It would be like a Coconut 🥥, with a migratory Sea phase and then colonizing new lands, with our Island being the central court, kind of like ourselves.
I guess the analogy also works with people, Polynesians and such.
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We have Glya and Moonsong; both of them have the ability to form courts with enough power and fame.

Glya in particular is already forming a theme and a power base. That's why I want to get her on mirror vision explaining how the fey work in more detail, and maybe telling children's stories.

If she becomes our very own Elmo/Mickey Mouse it would play into her protector of children and good hearted prankster image perfectly. If enough people think she is the Queen if all Gremlins, and we introduce her subordinate fey as her sworn swords or something, we could kick start her ascension without directly doing anything with Viserys. Millions of people speaking her name, telling her story, and attributing great power to her would be like fey steroids.

Moonsong would be a little trickier, but having her write a show in the style of Star Trek Next Generation based on her exploits would juice her up too. It'd be a good start for when we find some fey to work for her and form the core of her court.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I'm not sure we actually want to do anything that would actually be effective for a while. We're probably not going to cripple anything they need to get on plane, and dragging another party into open conflict would be a problem.

We have Glya and Moonsong; both of them have the ability to form courts with enough power and fame.

Glya in particular is already forming a theme and a power base. That's why I want to get her on mirror vision explaining how the fey work in more detail, and maybe telling children's stories.

If she becomes our very own Elmo/Mickey Mouse it would play into her protector of children and good hearted prankster image perfectly. If enough people think she is the Queen if all Gremlins, and we introduce her subordinate fey as her sworn swords or something, we could kick start her ascension without directly doing anything with Viserys. Millions of people speaking her name, telling her story, and attributing great power to her would be like fey steroids.

Moonsong would be a little trickier, but having her write a show in the style of Star Trek Next Generation based on her exploits would juice her up too. It'd be a good start for when we find some fey to work for her and form the core of her court.
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They could have own courts, but by their very nature they would be minor in scope, Glyra would likely have more Gremlins and similar Troublemakers, probably as a city wide network of punishers of petty wrongdoers and protectors of the innocent.
Moonsong will likely expand to a Fey ship and maybe a pirate fleet.

None are what I want, not really Queen Material.
I want someone that can organize all Fey in our realm.
That is not a small or unimportant goal, as this whole market thing has proved, if we had an authority that could supercede the Lord rules we could have gone straight for the source.
 
Duesal said:
Ideally we can just get the existing Queen to bow, then we can focus on more dire threats.
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That'd be ideal, but we have to handle the fact that fey see more story than sense. We need a narrative reason for her to bow that is so strong she can't resist it, otherwise they'll resist forever. These guys are exactly the kind of people to invent an Arthurian savior legend backed with enough story juice to bite us in the ass later, for example.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I'm not sure we actually want to do anything that would actually be effective for a while. We're probably not going to cripple anything they need to get on plane, and dragging another party into open conflict would be a problem.
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Well, with the Moonpale Maiden having acted on Plane of Balance ever since early Braavos (Wyla swore by her), and later organizing Tyrosh, we are already at direct war with her.
The sort we are at with Mammon, yes.

Unlike Archdevils, who might be inclined to look in other direction while we fight it out with Mammon unless we strike at them directly (they have other responsibilities, namely Blood War and scheming against easy-other), the ArchDaemons are just the kind of beings that would gleefully throw more shit our way the moment they can - just because they hate Existence that much, and we are in the way.

Taking out at least Elites seems but sensible to me.
That will slow down any plans in motion - and possibly let us know of any we should directly interfere with too.

BronzeTongue said:
Glya in particular is already forming a theme and a power base. That's why I want to get her on mirror vision explaining how the fey work in more detail, and maybe telling children's stories.

If she becomes our very own Elmo/Mickey Mouse it would play into her protector of children and good hearted prankster image perfectly. If enough people think she is the Queen if all Gremlins, and we introduce her subordinate fey as her sworn swords or something, we could kick start her ascension without directly doing anything with Viserys. Millions of people speaking her name, telling her story, and attributing great power to her would be like fey steroids.
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I'm fully supportive of this idea.
I'm not sure when to launch it for best timing though.

Shall we wait until Serpentsone RA (35 Progress) is done, and recording videos/cheaper mirrors are available, for maximum impact?
 
BronzeTongue said:
That'd be ideal, but we have to handle the fact that fey see more story than sense. We need a narrative reason for her to bow that is so strong she can't resist it, otherwise they'll resist forever. These guys are exactly the kind of people to invent an Arthurian savior legend backed with enough story juice to bite us in the ass later, for example.
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This is why making our own Queen is the best option, no baggage to drag her down, no old habits to fight against, a new grander story to forge a new, better realm.
We just need to give her enough legitimacy, and we have a crown and a slightly modified Queen.
 
das_slash said:
They could have own courts, but by their very nature they would be minor in scope, Glyra would likely have more Gremlins and similar Troublemakers, probably as a city wide network of punishers of petty wrongdoers and protectors of the innocent.
Moonsong will likely expand to a Fey ship and maybe a pirate fleet.

None are what I want, not really Queen Material.
I want someone that can organize all Fey in our realm.
That is not a small or unimportant goal, as this whole market thing has proved, if we had an authority that could supercede the Lord rules we could have gone straight for the source.
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As I understand it, rank among the fey is related to the strength of their stories. A Queen who is the story of a noble ruler is no stronger than a Queen with the story of being a playful trickster. The scale of the story and scope of belief are what make them real. A story about the Queen of Gremlins, of all the little things that play in shadows and are friendly for all that they are strange, is a strong one. I could be wrong in fey mechanics, but it seems like the age and spread of a story effect the strength of the fey that draw on it.

A personal story told across a huge slice of the world would deliver a lot of power. I'd expect a fight between a "traditional" storybook queen and a nitro boosted Glya (that has had time to grow in to the story) to read like a fable about Coyote or Anansi .
 
BronzeTongue said:
As I understand it, rank among the fey is related to the strength of their stories. A Queen who is the story of a noble ruler is no stronger than a Queen with the story of being a playful trickster. The scale of the story and scope of belief are what make them real. A story about the Queen of Gremlins, of all the little things that play in shadows and are friendly for all that they are strange, is a strong one. I could be wrong in fey mechanics, but it seems like the age and spread of a story effect the strength of the fey that draw on it.

A personal story told across a huge slice of the world would deliver a lot of power. I'd expect a fight between a "traditional" storybook queen and a nitro boosted Glya (that has had time to grow in to the story) to read like a fable about Coyote or Anansi .
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True, that's why we would need to give her legitimacy, modify the crown for her, "breed" her from the best of our stock, if we can connect her to the Old Gods even better.
Personal stories are powerful, but also binding, Glyra and Moonsong are no Queen,. No matter how personally powerful, their story lies elsewhere.
 
das_slash said:
They could have own courts, but by their very nature they would be minor in scope, Glyra would likely have more Gremlins and similar Troublemakers, probably as a city wide network of punishers of petty wrongdoers and protectors of the innocent.
Moonsong will likely expand to a Fey ship and maybe a pirate fleet.

None are what I want, not really Queen Material.
I want someone that can organize all Fey in our realm.
That is not a small or unimportant goal, as this whole market thing has proved, if we had an authority that could supercede the Lord rules we could have gone straight for the source.
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Or how about we don't have a single Queen for all the Fae of our realm? I rather prefer them divided in groups according to their specialty. Makes them way easier to handle. A Fae who is a Queen by nature would become another powerful political player to balance.
 
I'll just say this now, I don't think Glyra works as a proper queen. Queen of her own troupe, sure. But getting someone so inherently chaotic as Queen of all Fey? No thank you, there are better candidates out there.
BronzeTongue said:
That'd be ideal, but we have to handle the fact that fey see more story than sense. We need a narrative reason for her to bow that is so strong she can't resist it, otherwise they'll resist forever. These guys are exactly the kind of people to invent an Arthurian savior legend backed with enough story juice to bite us in the ass later, for example.
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The other thing that needs to be realized is that we haven't actually spent any time on this yet. The lack of results is a direct consequence of a lack of effort. Once we turn our full attention here things are going to go much differently.
 
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Interlude DXLXXXIX: To Plot Ill Fortune
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    • To Plot Ill Fortune ​

    Eleventh Day of the Tenth Month 293 AC

    "You know... I think they might be laughing at us, Bronn, if they weren't dead that is," Maelor motioned vaguely towards the gilded skull of the greater Fiend he had killed two days prior, set on top of some accounting sheets like a particularly gaudy curio. His more fleshy compatriot had to stay in the corpse ferrying bag lest it stink up the shop. "Hell, maybe Kytons would find being dead all the more amusing. I promised I'd get the secrets out of their bones, but we ended up selling the last scroll that could do that yesterday. Malarys is in the jungle of Sothoryos fighting lizard monsters, and it's not like we can go off to buy another scroll. Word might get back to the Dervishes, leaving them to wonder just whose corpse we want to talk to..."

    The sellsword snorted while leaning forward in his seat, such that the faint smell of hannann smoke wafted into Maelor's nostrils. "I think you are worrying your head over nothing, kid. So that thing that was selling off Ghiscari slaves was the same sort of grumpkin as the ones that tried to kill you today. They ain't like Devils where you have to pry open the universe's asshole to get them to serve anyone besides Hell, they're swords for hire, other things for hire too, I guess. Right, Sarell...?"

    "Indeed," the Fury replied curtly, probably on account of the 'asshole' part of the comment. Once Bronn had figured out there was no way he was sweet-talking her into bed he had started to carefully yank her chain, something the Fury usually paid back in their thrice weekly sparring matches. To his credit Bronn did not always end up black and blue, winning about two matches out of five which probably accounted for more liking on Sarell's part than any of his previous attempts at flirtation had done.

    "Alright, so maybe I'm just jumping at rats across the floorboards," Maelor admitted. "It still does not get us any closer at dealing with the Fakir. We can't just call in the Burning Dervishes on this, they might just start digging, and I don't want to just attack him with no idea on what he might have up his sleeves. Sure it sounds easy in principle, stage a robbery, kill him, steal anything that isn't nailed down and make all the loot vanish like it had gone into Viserys' cloak, but..."

    "A plan rarely survives three heartbeats into battle," Sarell finished. "Any sort of contingency or alarm that might warn what passes for law-keepers in this city could see our entire purpose for being here undone. The enmity of a petty shopkeeper can be endured."

    "If that's all that is," Maelor replied darkly. "Shiny Skull over there implied selling off my body to Malarys would have served more to get close to him. I think someone's interested in us already, maybe in what they can't see as much as what they can." Looking at someone's enchantments was as common in the City of Brass as checking for obvious weapons in any other place. Seeing nothing meant weakness... or dangerously veiled strength. "I think we need another veil, not the magic kind, a front. Find some thieves who'd be interested in a cut, only use fake names and glamours to talk to 'em. Set them up to take the fall if things go sour and the Dervishes are looking too closely at things."

    "Bringing in people's a big risk," Bronn pointed out. "So far the most we've had to do with the locals was bribes for the Sultan's taxemen. Good business for our buyers and a fist to the face for the local thugs when they tried to sell us 'protection'. Not sure I'd trust the bastards with anything fancy..."

    "I wouldn't use the Black Knives anyway, their territory covers the shop," Maelor replied. "We need nothing at all linking the honest upstanding business of Enchanted Outfitters with anything as crude as killing and robbing. Look, I'm not carving anything in stone, I just want to go out and look at our options."

    "Alright by me," Bronn shrugged. "It's boring as shit playing shop guard for so long."

    Sarell considered the matter for far longer. "Having some options to present Wisdom Malarys when he returns would be a commendable show of initiative, I will grant."

    OOC: The 'no faces, no names' anti-divination trick works for you guys as well as your enemies, though ultimately it will be a vote if you want to go through with this or some other plan.
     
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    • das_slash said:
    This is why making our own Queen is the best option, no baggage to drag her down, no old habits to fight against, a new grander story to forge a new, better realm.
    We just need to give her enough legitimacy, and we have a crown and a slightly modified Queen.
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    I'm not disputing the idea that we should make our own. I just think you are underestimating the power of our existing fey, and overestimating our ability to make up a perfectly subordinate story with any real power.
    There's a sort of storybook logic we have to work with here and I don't think we can grow a fey story in a sterile environment. We can't make a story about a Queen without making it a story about her ruling, we can't make a story about a knight in shining armor without it including them following knightly ideals. Not without changing them into something else at least. Their baggage is a large part of their strength.

    What sort of effects will the act of making this fey have on how it forms? What tropes will be involved, what openings for reinterpretation? I don't think it's practical to assume we can make something worthwhile without it being at least partly it's own thing.

    As an example, I think that if we make a new fey to wear a modified crown we'll end up with the story of a regent. Depending on how we end the fight she could be a vile foreign one, a kindly and just one, or something else, but still a regent. That would leave room for a Returning King.

    This is not to say we shouldn't do something like that, or that our current fey fit the bill, but we need to be aware that we're working with material that has a mind of its own. Assuming I'm right about any of this, we'll have better luck growing existing stories to our purpose than trying to make something both perfect for our needs and loyal to our cause.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    OOC: The 'no faces, no names' anti-divination trick works for you guys as well as your enemies, though ultimately it will be a vote if you want to go through with this or some other plan.
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    Honestly think it would be better to do their own plans since we trusted this mission to them and only come to us to decide things if super important in their minds.

    Kinda like how we let Tyene and company mostly handle their own mission for the most part.
     
    BronzeTongue said:
    I'm not disputing the idea that we should make our own. I just think you are underestimating the power of our existing fey, and overestimating our ability to make up a perfectly subordinate story with any real power.
    There's a sort of storybook logic we have to work with here and I don't think we can grow a fey story in a sterile environment. We can't make a story about a Queen without making it a story about her ruling, we can't make a story about a knight in shining armor without it including them following knightly ideals. Not without changing them into something else at least. Their baggage is a large part of their strength.

    What sort of effects will the act of making this fey have on how it forms? What tropes will be involved, what openings for reinterpretation? I don't think it's practical to assume we can make something worthwhile without it being at least partly it's own thing.

    As an example, I think that if we make a new fey to wear a modified crown we'll end up with the story of a regent. Depending on how we end the fight she could be a vile foreign one, a kindly and just one, or something else, but still a regent. That would leave room for a Returning King.

    This is not to say we shouldn't do something like that, or that our current fey fit the bill, but we need to be aware that we're working with material that has a mind of its own. Assuming I'm right about any of this, we'll have better luck growing existing stories to our purpose than trying to make something both perfect for our needs and loyal to our cause.
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    The real trick would be to get her to piggyback on our own story, Queen in exile, reforging a shattered realm from nothing.
    Of we can get the Shadow King to support that claim, and have the Old Gods support her, we can get all Fey from there.
     
    das_slash said:
    The real trick would be to get her to piggyback on our own story, Queen in exile, reforging a shattered realm from nothing.
    Of we can get the Shadow King to support that claim, and have the Old Gods support her, we can get all Fey from there.
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    One of our moves would be to call a council of our important Fey (and Alysande Redsail since she has the most experience in Fey wrangling). Orphne King, Moonsong, Queen Rhaella, Glyra, etc. Then we brainstorm on how to approach and subvert the Court of Stars. They'll very likely have insights that DP isn't allowed to say OOC.
    DragonParadox said:
    History books are fine to grab (though probably edited to Hell and back). Forbidden lore risks drawing attention to the buyer.
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    History books, then. I hope we can get all culturally relevant stuff, as well as an abbreviated copy of their laws?
     
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