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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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zxzx24 said:
So it's humanities fault for feeding babies to the old gods. Not the old gods fault for eating them?
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Yeah pretty much. The Old Gods want food. They don't care what it is..as long as it isn't related to you.

zxzx24 said:
And we dropped the "the old gods reward feeding them children" from the board?
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Again welcome to nature gods. They reward sacrifice. They just don't care what that is.

zxzx24 said:
And when they do do those things? Like against the followers of the seven for example?

And not the 7 themselves mind you, just their followers.
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You mean the same Seven who came across the sea and broke Guest-Right, broke oaths sworn and cut the Weirwoods? The same ones who invaded and killed thousands of them. Yeah I'd say they did what they had to do to survive. And they were feeling plenty vengeful after the whole "Invasion" thing I imagine.
 
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zxzx24 said:
So it's humanities fault for feeding babies to the old gods. Not the old gods fault for eating them?

Is that what were spinning with?

And we dropped the "the old gods reward feeding them children" from the board?


And when they do do those things? Like against the followers of the seven for example?

And not the 7 themselves mind you, just their followers.
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I at least agree with you on this; I just think that ignoring what they've done in the past so long as we control what happens in the future isn't a horrible sin. It'd be different if they had an active desire we had to suppress, but they want to eat strong sacrifices and we are the best source of that. That gives us influence over how they behave; if the issue comes up we draw the line and make sure they don't do it again. They're probably smart enough to know it's a bad idea to encourage that kind of stuff anyway.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I at least agree with you on this; I just think that ignoring what they've done in the past so long as we control what happens in the future isn't a horrible sin. It'd be different if they had an active desire we had to suppress, but they want to eat strong sacrifices and we are the best source of that. That gives us influence over how they behave; if the issue comes up we draw the line and make sure they don't do it again. They're probably smart enough to know it's a bad idea to encourage that kind of stuff anyway.
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I don't foresee any problems with the Old Gods on that end. Monsters will always be better and more potent sacrifices than randomly demanding children and alienating us in the process. The chances of this happening are slim to none -- they're not idiots.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I at least agree with you on this; I just think that ignoring what they've done in the past so long as we control what happens in the future isn't a horrible sin. It'd be different if they had an active desire we had to suppress, but they want to eat strong sacrifices and we are the best source of that. That gives us influence over how they behave; if the issue comes up we draw the line and make sure they don't do it again. They're probably smart enough to know it's a bad idea to encourage that kind of stuff anyway.
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Thats kind of one of the big issues with the seven I guess?

It's like... Hm.

We can SAY we won't be aiding and abetting in anymore childmurder. Even if the old gods tell us to.

But... Many people think making a firm commitment to something like that is either foolish, or showing unacceptable weakness. Despite most of us not even being happy considering the idea.

There's also the fact that we, more than anyone aside from Bloodraven. Have put the work into making the old gods more discerning.

@One Autumn Leaf @Duesal the seven chosen.

Also Andal houses if we hadn't put in an exhaustive amount of effort preventing those demands.

Edit:
To be perfectly clear I suppose.

"If your parent, grandparents, or ancestors pissed off the old gods your on the shit list."
 
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zxzx24 said:
But... Many people think making a firm commitment to something like that is either foolish, or showing unacceptable weakness. Despite most of us not even being happy considering the idea.

There's also "who are they to demand that of us?" Which... Fair. But they are those peoples friends, and family
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This has never been an issue or a conversation that has ever happened in this thread. Ever. The only demands that have even hypothetically been brought up are related to Necromancy and Demon calling. And I brought those up. Both of which are issues pertaining to Imperial Law which is set by us and only us. Not some religious group.

Edit: IE only those on the inside affect policy. If they wanted no child sacrifice as a law after joining sure. But not before and certainly not as a demand. Also this is a common sense law. It is already illegal.

Edit2: Unless you think Viserys would be okay with Child Sacrifice.

zxzx24 said:
Also Andal houses if we hadn't put in an exhaustive amount of effort preventing those demands.

Edit:
To be perfectly clear I suppose.

"If your parent, grandparents, or ancestors pissed off the old gods your on the shit list."
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Seems like a Bronze Age and Medieval age solution to problems. Nothing new by the standards of the setting. Plus as you said we put in a (token) effort into making it less bloody. So as we paid for it they are inclined to be more merciful.
 
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zxzx24 said:
To be perfectly clear I suppose.

"If your parent, grandparents, or ancestors pissed off the old gods your on the shit list."
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We are really going to have to tell people this, because despite our assurances that we won't judge people for what their ancestors did, the shit list is real, and hell, it's not even that hard to get out of.

The Graftons went from :

"Remember the day of Gulltown when they said: "Raze it, raze to it's foundations"
Oh sons of Andalos who art to be destroyed, happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

To:
"Ayyy LMAO, his daughter married one of our guys, never mind dude, we chill"

So, if everyone is willing to put the token effort we can settle this relatively peacefully.
 
das_slash said:
We are really going to have to tell people this, because despite our assurances that we won't judge people for what their ancestors did, the shit list is real, and hell, it's not even that hard to get out of.

The Graftons went from :

"Remember the day of Gulltown when they said: "Raze it, raze to it's foundations"
Oh sons of Andalos who art to be destroyed, happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

To:
"Ayyy LMAO, his daughter married one of our guys, never mind dude, we chill"

So, if everyone is willing to put the token effort we can settle this relatively peacefully.
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I mean he also had to sacrifice the Corbrays but I imagine that was icing on the cake.
 
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One Autumn Leaf said:
This has never been an issue or a conversation that has ever happened in this thread. Ever. The only demands that have even hypothetically been brought up are related to Necromancy and Demon calling. And I brought those up. Both of which are issues pertaining to Imperial Law which is set by us and only us. Not some religious group.

Edit: IE only those on the inside affect policy. If they wanted no child sacrifice as a law after joining sure. But not before and certainly not as a demand. Also this is a common sense law. It is already illegal.

Edit2: Unless you think Viserys would be okay with Child Sacrifice.



Seems like a Bronze Age and Medieval age solution to problems. Nothing new by the standards of the setting. Plus as you said we put in a (token) effort into making it less bloody. So as we paid for it they are inclined to be more merciful.
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Eh, fair enough on it not being brought up before. Maybe I should draft something.

Also, we put in much more than a token effort. We risked mainlining the hivemind to show them Hellven. Among other things...
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
I mean he also had to sacrifice the Corbrays but I imagine that was icing on the cake.
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If I remember correctly the old Gods were kind of ok with them before.
I think the important part is to make clear that they are not the same people as their ancestors, if they stick to their legacy they need to die because they will consider them basically the same people, but if they adapt and pay homage to the old Gods, well it's the same as they did with the original First Men, they are theirs now.
Also keep in mind that the Graftons were public enemy #1 and went back from that relatively easily.
 
zxzx24 said:
Also, we put in much more than a token effort. We risked mainlining the hivemind to show them Hellven. Among other things...
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We put our lives and conscious at risk to show them the truth. A token effort. We do that every week. Hell I'd argue everyday on some months. As for the Blood Tree growing... well the anger lessening was a neat side effect of all the trees grown. Our primary reasoning for all those tress was "Oh look, a convenient power container and deal. Might as well use it for all the monsters and rewards." Effort implies we went out of our way to save them which can only be said for one. And he saved himself with a little help from us.

das_slash said:
If I remember correctly the old Gods were kind of ok with them before.
I think the important part is to make clear that they are not the same people as their ancestors, if they stick to their legacy they need to die because they will consider them basically the same people, but if they adapt and pay homage to the old Gods, well it's the same as they did with the original First Men, they are theirs now.
Also keep in mind that the Graftons were public enemy #1 and went back from that relatively easily.
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Like I said, Icing on the humiliation cake. Also yeah it didn't take much to do that. They had probably mellowed out there for the most part. Especially considering...our involvement.
 
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zxzx24 said:
Thats kind of one of the big issues with the seven I guess?

It's like... Hm.

We can SAY we won't be aiding and abetting in anymore childmurder. Even if the old gods tell us to.

But... Many people think making a firm commitment to something like that is either foolish, or showing unacceptable weakness. Despite most of us not even being happy considering the idea.

There's also the fact that we, more than anyone aside from Bloodraven. Have put the work into making the old gods more discerning.

@One Autumn Leaf @Duesal the seven chosen.

Also Andal houses if we hadn't put in an exhaustive amount of effort preventing those demands.
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I don't feel much pity for the chosen themselves; this is a war, and they chose a side the same way we did. The fact that we had to put in work to calm the old gods down isn't a reason to condemn them; my only concern on the revenge of the old gods is the deaths of innocents.
I just think that we can stick to situations like the devil worshiper pulling the coin trick for limited sacrifice, and directly stealing power from the seven like we did with Bealor the blessed. We should be able to manage this without crossing any moral event horizons, and the old gods have more than made it worth the effort to find a way to get them what they want despite the complexity of doing so.
 
Don't forget to vote, y'all.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Sep 13, 2019 at 9:15 PM, finished with 83 posts and 6 votes.
  • [X] Questions
    -[X] Do a combination of divinations and commune questions about the various factions operating in the Goblin Market.
    -[X] Is the Hooded Lord aligned against us?
    -[X] Are there agents of the Court of Stars acting against us in the Goblin Market?
    -[X] Are there agents of Ymeri acting against us in the Goblin Market?
    -[X] Are there fiends acting against us in the Goblin Market?
    -[X] Do a divination to find the identity of the person who gave the spindle to the Temple of R'hllor in Lys.
    -[X] Once the above are answered, narrow down all leads until we have a solid idea of who is pulling the strings here.
    -[X] Ask if the spindle is a relic of R'hllor in some fashion.
    --[X] Followup question, ask if it is the Fey Token to the Goblin Market that you're hunting.
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Meh...

I kinda want to interview Burny himself...

[ :V ] Consecrate the Temple of R'hllor in SD with a sacrifice of [Insert whatever is appropriate from our larder]
-[ ] High five, brofist, secret handshake his Redness when he appears and conduct a Rap Battle
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Huh, what are people suspect is actually happening here, if one were to give R'hllor the benefit of the doubt?

Also, who here watched The Boys again? @Crake @Duesal @Goldfish and @das_slash ?
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I highly doubt R'hllor is the antagonist here. Everything I've seen so far hints at him gearing up for negotiations with us for his faith joining the Imperium in full, most likely with negotiations handled by Melisandre. This kind of underhanded nonsense doesn't seem like his style.

This reeks of either Ymeri or the Court of Stars doing everything they can to hinder us. Hell, very recently when we assassinated the Bey of Beggars we found out that Hermetia's uncle was starting up a Ymeri cult in Lys. It could easily be that Zherys didn't manage to hunt down all of them.

We all know the Court of Stars doesn't like us, and that they want us busy in Essos for as long as possible. It makes sense that they'd send agents to subvert us.

Fiends is another possibility, but they're usually a lot less subtle than this, so I'm leaning towards Fey overall. If we're very unlucky it could be some unholy alliance between Ymeri and the Court of Stars, though that's highly unlikely.

Also, yeah, I've seen the boys. Homelander is my favorite character. Such a great villain.
 
Duesal said:
I highly doubt R'hllor is the antagonist here. Everything I've seen so far hints at him gearing up for negotiations with us for his faith joining the Imperium in full, most likely with negotiations handled by Melisandre. This kind of underhanded nonsense doesn't seem like his style.

This reeks of either Ymeri or the Court of Stars doing everything they can to hinder us. Hell, very recently when we assassinated the Bey of Beggars we found out that Hermetia's uncle was starting up a Ymeri cult in Lys. It could easily be that Zherys didn't manage to hunt down all of them.

We all know the Court of Stars doesn't like us, and that they want us busy in Essos for as long as possible. It makes sense that they'd send agents to subvert us.

Fiends is another possibility, but they're usually a lot less subtle than this, so I'm leaning towards Fey overall. If we're very unlucky it could be some unholy alliance between Ymeri and the Court of Stars, though that's highly unlikely.

Also, yeah, I've seen the boys. Homelander is my favorite character. Such a great villain.
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Ymeri is a fey that aspires to be a goddess right? Or something in between? Is that not the whole point of the court?
Maybe she is a different tier, if the court is the accretion disk, she is the molten ball of Fey dreams in the center.
 
[X] Duesal
Side note, does anyone have any ideas for the effects for "Seven Trees of Andalos", the ones we voted to raise alongside restored chapels of Seven this turn?

We didn't raise them with the rest earlier this month just because we had no effects lined up :/

Old Gods and uncle told us that they have "enough" HTs connected to powerful leylines and they need simply moar Heart Trees planted all around now.

We can do that.

@Duesal, you won't mind me lining up something along the lines "1-2 (Healing) heart trees for every province in the Empire" as an MA for the next turn?
Even minor settlement could greatly profit from those.
 
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